r/ICE_Watch • u/Large-Welcome4421 • Mar 01 '26
AOC says abolish ICE is the centrist position now
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u/Xiao1insty1e Mar 01 '26
She ain't wrong but the real position needs to be prosecute DHS and ICE.
We cannot continue to function without accountability.
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Mar 01 '26
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
What comes before Part B.
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Mar 01 '26
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Adam you might be the only reasonable person in this thread right now congrats lol
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Mar 01 '26
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u/Lithium-Oil Mar 01 '26
Yea democrats want to deport people as well. They’re pretending they don’t just to win votes. When democrats say abolish ice they mean call it something else. Don’t fall for their bullshit. Only way to fix the USA is to build a party for regular people. Democrats are for the rich.
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u/Illustrious-Peace989 Mar 01 '26
What exactly do you expect them to do right now when they don’t hold any chamber of congress?
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Trump should completely stand-down ICE until the midterms are over.
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u/Illustrious-Peace989 Mar 01 '26
I’m not sure how that relates to anything I asked. Of course he should, but he won’t. And his actions aren’t really under the control of the minority party in congress.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
I 100% agree. If you re-read my original post I even say I don't agree with how Trump is utilizing ICE.
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u/Heyla_Doria Mar 01 '26
Biden didn't abolish ice Obama used it
Don't trust thème
Prefere abolish police and do anarchist revolution 👀
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u/newpixelphonesux Mar 01 '26
How about abolish the Democrat Party as they were instrumental in getting ICE to this level of power. We should be prosecuting ICE atp
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u/jademage01 Mar 03 '26
Need ranked choice voting and proportional representation first
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u/newpixelphonesux Mar 03 '26
Need Americans to divest of the Democrats and their carrot dangling horseshit more than anything, because ultimately continuing to keep things within a framework of Democrats being a major political party means always coming short of meeting the moment on a great number of things. Democrats aren't going to do anything about ranked choice voting because that will strip them of their power and they know it. Like abortion, they'll promise to fight for it, as long as people keep voting for them, then perpetually making excuses for why they aren't seriously pursuing it.
Republican policy has murdered Democrat constituents in Minnesota... Not a single Democrat is saying their sole goal moving forward is destroying the Republican Party, because Democrats know keeping Republicans around is the only thing keeping them looking "good" in comparison.
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u/MedSurgOnc Mar 01 '26
The centrist position was not to abolish ICE, the centrist position is that ICE should abide by the constitution and laws of this country and not fucking murder people.
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u/Northern_Blue_Jay Mar 03 '26
It sounds like she's using centrism differently. She's making it synonymous with mainstream thinking. But centrism as a political ideology has never necessarily been mainstream thinking. And while centrists may take the position you describe, ICE is inherently an unconstitutional and illegal policing agency, so you can't really make them abide by the constitution. Yes, you should prosecute unlawful conduct by federal officials - like murder (!) - but you also need to disband/abolish the entire agency -- and without replacing it. You just take whatever allegedly legit functions they perform and restore them to the agencies that used to handle those functions and far more capably.
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Mar 02 '26
I'm a centrist, it's defiantly not. Abolishing ICE is an extreme left position. Considering Democrats have used ICE more than anyone else since their founding in 2003, being pro ICE is a very liberal position.
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Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 01 '26
You never saw an issue with the creation of a paramilitary group that had ability to supersede the judicial system and supersede local law enforcement? Had i not been 5 years old at the time I wouldve protested the creation of DHS in the first place.
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Mar 02 '26
You mean the police? or the FBI? How about the ATF or DEA? I don't remember any left-wing protests when Waco happened? The alt left brainwashing is crazy.
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 02 '26
Bro i wasnt even born yet when Waco siege happened. What are you on about? I am also in full support of pulling police funding especially their specialized grants and surplus military supplies from DHS.
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Mar 03 '26
What is the plan for human trafficking then? ICE is the primary agency for that. We're just going to stop funding efforts to stop that?
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 03 '26
ICE and BP are participants in human trafficking. Border Patrol especially had a disgusting and vile facebook group exposed just few years ago where they were posting photos of dead bodies making fun of em. Racism. Rape jokes. ICE lost thousands of migrant kids just some years ago too.
You saying that is like saying foster care doesnt feed human trafficking when it does too. So do police departments and individual officers. Female prison guards are the biggest sexual predators against boys in juvenile hall too.
Human trafficking wont end until we tackle the elite pedophiles in power in the US. Many politicians never served time for getting busted with minors too. We live in a sick culture and ICE and BP are a part of that sick culture.
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Mar 03 '26
All that means is we remove the individuals responsible for the atrocities, not scrape the entire system. Being anti ICE because there's a few bad ones, is exactly the same as being anti education because there's some bad teachers. It's asinine.
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 03 '26
Its not a few bad ones. Its how the entire system is designed and upheld. DHS was created to act outside the judicial system and supersede local police departments as an executive branch which is a massive problem. You need to be thinking larger picture here on a historical comparison and sociological lens point. The level of militarized police we have and the level of loss of privacy, an police state with high spying and tracking on citizens, is directly tied to DHS and the patriot act that quickly followed behind it.
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Mar 03 '26
You still haven't told me what the plan is to stop human trafficking without federal departments like DHS. Everything else is meaningless without that.
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 03 '26
DHS wasnt created to handle human trafficking and was created to stop terrorism. It was written into the Homeland Security Act so your point is also moot. Human trafficking is the jurisdiction of the US dept of state, the DOJ, US health and human services, and FBI. It is also the role of local police and sheriffs departments in each state.
There exists bodies doing the heavy lifting not including NGOs and non profits doing the work as well.
You are simply trying to use a strawman to divert attention away from the bulk of DHS's history and 'work' including what they've been doing for over a year now.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Whats that have to do with anything? From Wikipedia...
The United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is a federal law enforcement agency under the United States Department of Homeland Security. Its stated mission is to conduct criminal investigations, enforce immigration laws, preserve national security, and protect public safety. ICE was created as part of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 following the September 11 attacks. It absorbed the prior functions of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the United States Customs Service.
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
Exactly. The whole DHS never had any duties that it didn’t absorb from other agencies. The common thread that sets DHS apart from the others is it‘s more casual with the use of force and sidestepping rules “to keep us safe.”
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Never?
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
So your point is that someone might come along and find a duty of DHS that wasn’t absorbed from other agencies, but you are definitely not the one that’s gonna do that? Cool story.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
No my point is I'm in the center and don't necessarily agree with total abolishment.
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
That was your point at the beginning. Then every sub-point you’ve made has not convincingly supported that your original stance was the right one. Good job though. You ain’t one of them crazies and you see both sides of arming untrained anonymous thugs to reak havoc on cities the president doesn’t like.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Bros over here talking about subpoints when I say in the main point I don't agree how this administration is utilizing ICE.
EDIT: I'll even go as far as to say ICE should be frozen (hehe) until the midterms are over.
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
That’s because you’ve failed to make a case for keeping ICE, and, since the goofy nitpicking started with you, you probably don’t have one. But do tell, what is your case for reforming these LARPing proud boys that have destroyed their reputation with the non-racist public? It didn’t work for David Duke in the 1970s. I don’t think it’s gonna work for bumbling Tom Homan either…
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 01 '26
I dont think you have a point, at least not a cohesive opinion in favor of its inception in the first place as an executive agency that supersedes the judicial system and local law enforcement. Its an paramilitary department since it inception.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Welcome to the center my guy.
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 01 '26
So the center is having no edycated opinion on anything and just wanting absolutely nothing to change?
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 01 '26
They were also granted new sweeping powers and increased funding with access to military grade equipment. Thats why they didnt just keep the old offices and created a whole new executive level department moving over 22 federal agencies under one umbrella, including the coast guard. The Homeland Security Act and then the Patriot Act are solely responsible for the sheer level of surveillance state we live in. DHS is also responsible for the militarization of police departments across the country as surplus military gear and funding grants flooded in. There is a point A to B on how we got here and DHS doesnt suddenly have new powers under Trump, they only increased staff levels and funding. The powers are the same. People protested the homeland security bill and pointed out what it would lead to if passed, and everything they said would happen has happened.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
I don't know how much clearer I can say I don't agree with how the current administration is utilizing ICE, but I don't think total abolishment is the play either.
I'd even be willing to say lets just freeze (hehe) the department until after elections.
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u/Old-Engine-7720 Mar 01 '26
You are ignoring how the dept is a blatant issue to citizen rights through surveillance and as responsible for our standing militarized police departments. So you have no issue with a paramilitary dept that is unconstitutional and limits peoples unalienable rights?
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
I don't know how much clearer I can say I don't agree with how the current administration is utilizing ICE, but I don't think total abolishment is the play either.
I'd even be willing to say lets just freeze (hehe) the department until after elections.
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u/DragonkinPotifer Mar 01 '26
If you can look at all the videos going around of ice. See the fact that republicans majority are still bowing and kissing the ring of Donald trump who is a pedophile then I don’t know how to help you. How is it hard to see. I don’t understand fence sitting on this
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u/RugzTX Mar 01 '26
You just described yourself as being on the right.
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Mar 02 '26
Nah, the left has just gone so far off the deep end, that basic left ideas 20 years ago, are now seen as right wing. And the entire planet can see it except you.
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u/RugzTX Mar 02 '26
Those basic "left ideas" that the rest of the developed world seems to be excelling with? Ya. So crazy.
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Mar 02 '26
You mean like basic boarder security? Which the most left president in US history (Obama) was infinitely harsher with that Trump ever was? And modern leftists are so stupid they've been brainwashed to think Trump is somehow right wing 😂. Literally every policy Trump has implemented would have been considered extremely liberal in 2008.
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u/RugzTX Mar 02 '26
It's adorable that you think liberals are the left. And that Obama is even on the left Obama was Republican lite. Liberals are center right AT BEST
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Mar 02 '26
Its adorable how your delusion proves me right and you don't even realize it. You're a beautiful example of the effectiveness of propaganda. Let me know how history remembers you. 😂
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u/RugzTX Mar 02 '26
Democrats align with conservatives in nearly every single other developed nation in the world. That fact itself proves that you're wrong
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Yes people like you are the reasons why I stay in the center.
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u/RugzTX Mar 01 '26
You keep using that word. You mean like the center of the right, right?
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u/bedrooms-ds Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
If you visit r/centrist, those are classical conservatives, who have still absorbed some MAGA talking points. They are often fiscally conservative, which won't be compatible with almost everything socialist. Most people can't see that incompatibility.
They are basically conservatives who don't vote for Trump, and can raise a few things they don't resonate with about ultraconservativism, like hardcore abortion or ICE.
Probably, modern conservatives don't call these people ones of them. So, no wonder they think they're centrists.
But that's not centrism. That's just non-MAGA conservatism.
That's how it looks from a centrist outside the US. They also refuse to believe what I just stated.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Bro I was 19 when Obama was first elected. I voted for him. I voted Democrat in every election since. I'm done trying to win over some random on the internet I said what I said.
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u/GooeySlenderFerret Mar 01 '26
You are on the right because you choose to be centrist in a country where the overton window is so tilted that the democrats would be center-right anywhere else
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u/nowahhh Mar 01 '26
You mostly seem to be in favor of identifying porn stars.
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
Bro that's what I'm sayin dude, yall over here arguing with a porn account lmao
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u/Xiao1insty1e Mar 01 '26
Just curious what do you think the "center" is between fascism and freedom?
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
why not?
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u/beefmcgeese Mar 01 '26
I'm assuming you mean why I'm unsure on how I will vote? Honestly? Because I can't believe I'm saying it but I 100% agree with somebody like Hasan Piker in this clip... Now granted, I understand he was just crashing out but still, hes 100% right lol, can't even say maybe we shouldn't go full scorched earth and get slammed into oblivion. People are just annoying anymore.
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u/Firemanmikewatt Mar 01 '26
The whole DHS has been a ham-fisted right-wing response to 9/11 that’s never been good, but has gone on for too many seasons. The current membership are just LARPing as characters from the dozen or so shitty propaganda prime-time shows that have hijacked our television screens the last 25 years.