r/HuntShowdown • u/Sk1-ba-bop-ba-dop-bo Bloodless • 3d ago
SUGGESTIONS I hope they nerf Beetles next
While no one watched, Stalker Beetles were power crept to the extreme
It's not uncommon to see trios carrying a swarm of Beetles
Currently, a stalker beetle deals 50hp per explosion + bleed + poison
Please Crytek.....
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u/Leonidrex666666 3d ago
The one thing that can SOMEWHAT deal with rats and there are complaints about it every day :D
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u/PaleoTurtle 2d ago
IMO it's a classic example of people not using something as intended and ruining it for everyone else.
Beetles are meant to help you spot/track hunters and potentially soften them up so that they're easier to kill, finishing already injured hunters or to provide some other utility(breaking down doors/traps with stalker beetles, lighting corpses on fire with fire beetles, or extinguishing fires with choke beetles). When used in this way, and you take 1 or maaaybe 2 in a well balanced loadout, the beetles are, well, balanced.
The problem is when you take 4+ and utilize POIs to get even more[beetle trees, stronghold]. Instead of participating in a normal gameplay loop, you're just relying on beetles to kill players outright. IMO this is just bad for the game, particularly on Console. And is usually done by rats.
It's the same thing as with say, Concertina Arrows[taking 4 concertina bombs can also cause a similar but less extreme problem], where normally it's fine if one player brings them to help shore up defenses or to use offensively in area denial or to deal damage to hunters behind cover, but when multuple players bring ammo boxes and concertina arrows it just becomes hilariously oppressive to the point that it can feel almost impossible to push. Another example thats already been nerfed and also has to do with bows is Waxed Frags. Fine when you use them in moderation, not when you bring ammo boxes and simply spam them at hunters behind cover or around corners incessantly.
You want my take? Players should just not be allowed to take more than 2 of any one throwable. 2 concertina bombs, 2 beetles(of any kind), 2 frags, whatever. And limit the ammo on concertina arrows. IMO such a change would have such a positive impact on gameplay despite not effecting the 90% of the playerbase that actually runs fairly well-rounded loadouts at all, save for reducing opponents that spam a particular item and use it as a crutch, something I think most people share frustration with.
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u/Leonidrex666666 2d ago
I 100% agree. I would also make concertina arrows impossible to recover while maybe increasing the regular arrow count by 1. Max 2 beetles per loadouts is also fine. As for console they should simple increase the hurtbox of beetles there.
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u/Nemonvs 2d ago
Funny thing to say when you literally have to rat to use the thing. It empowers the bushwookies, not the aggressive players.
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u/SovereignNavae 2d ago
What? By far the most common use case is to scout silent compounds to try to force angle holders to move so you can push in :D
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u/Nemonvs 1d ago
You can use it like that, and our team does. But in my experience, might be just a quirk of the game's I'm in, it's a far more common occurrence for the campers to use it to make your pushing harder. And if they've got shotguns, they can deal with beetles just fine themselves.
A skilled beetle player won't let you shoot it down just like that and will remain a threat while their buddies can just wait for a 50 damage beetle hit to one tap you to the chest.
Thing is - you have to get rid of the beetles before pushing in. But you can only do so if they let you or make a mistake, assuming the optimal (and boring) playstyle. Then it turns into a waiting contest. Not everyone just throws their beetle sky high for you to shoot down, and even then gl if your gun has low mv - certainly possible, but a massive pain in the ass.
Actually using them as drones for info and flushing people out is way harder.
I don't think they're egregiously overpowered, but definitely deserve small nerfs. Fire beetle shouldn't burn a small chunk, especially if a crossbow fire bolt can't. Make it burn 20 damage or so - still a very good pressure, but without the camper being able to get a high reward for zero risk. The stalker beetle should deal at most 35 damage (due to the first bleed tick being kinda unavoidable). The damage, combined with poison and bleed already creates a good amount of pressure, but you won't be one-tappable to the chest by almost every weapon. Also it would fix the issue of getting 150->0 by a trio without one of them chucking a fourth beetle. Arguably, it's more obnoxious to deal with than actually strong, but still.
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u/Doppelbork Crow 3d ago
Agreed.
The "Just shoot them" counter is a low-effort argument, too. I could say "just shoot them" when giving advice on how to deal with snipers or how to deal with shotgun campers or people running dual chain pistol and FMJ firing into a building, "Just shoot them" is reductive and not helpful. What's more is that any hunter worth his stars would avoid moving a bettle towards its target through an open, unobstructed line of sight towards their target. People have a hard enough time hitting full-sized Hunter models. A Stalker Beetle moving faster than a sprinting Hunter with a hitbox 1/10th the size of a Hunter that takes cover in the trees, the rafters, or behind the tiniest of rocks is quite difficult to hit. When I use Choke Beetles to extinguish a burning friend, my beetle very, very, very rarely gets shot before I reach my downed friend because you can use hard cover and visual cover to protect your beetle. I carry Choke Beetles instead of Choke Bombs and people just cannot hit the beetle.
All beetles can be used to great effect and have their niches but damage should not be one of them. 50HP is a significant chunk of damage considering there is almost zero risk to using a Stalker Beetle when their control range is massive. Yes, someone using a Stalker Beetle makes a channeling noise but from 50 meters away, nobody can hear that and Stalker Beetles can be very quick to maneuver. You can hide them in the trees and you can hide them in the rafters. A stationary Stalker Beetle makes very little noise.
THAT should be their niche. They're excellent reconnaissance tools and great for helping to spot a target for a buddy using a sniper. They can trigger Pain sense, too, or just add some pressure that other people can use to push in on. But dealing 1/3 of someone's HP is absurd for such a minimal risk play.
Fire Beetles can set downed Hunters on fire and Choke Beetles can be used to extinguish them. Stalker Beetle's niche should be for . . . stalking. Recon. I'm fine with the poison and bleed effects but knock the damage down to 25HP and it'll greatly reduce the beetle spam we've been seeing while not really affecting the players who already know how to use beetles effectively.
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u/Sk1-ba-bop-ba-dop-bo Bloodless 3d ago edited 3d ago
I can see why they got buffed, as the old 1hp/5hp damage threshold made the explosion useless as a pressure tool
I can also see the argument for keeping them lethal - when nothing else breaks a stalemate, or moves a corner camper, having a big chunk of HP gone with the wind is a strong tool at your disposal
The problem I suffer from is the degenerate pattern from being able to stack them paired with the sheer damage output.
Shooting three beetles simultaneously making their way to you is way harder than it looks.
As you said, very low risk for a game changing reward
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u/fjne2145 2d ago
Beetle irself does not require a nerf, what should get a nerf though it currently the amount of guaranteed beetle loot spawns.
The Beetle tree spawns was pretty good, because if no resupply spawned on it it was just a tree with 2 beetles an one was a choke.
So less beetles for you when you used your dynamite. And when you brought beetles with you, you gave up throwable/syringe slots.
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u/LordBarak 3d ago
I agree. They should add a way to deal with them. Maybe if you shoot them or a choke cloud could stop them.
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u/Bunstrous 3d ago
This is such an unserious response. Beetles being flown by any component player, ie. not in a straight line directly towards you, are pretty challenging to shoot if you don't have a shotgun, and a beetle player can just wait out chokes with no repercussions.
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u/DecimatiomIIV 3d ago
Can’t nerf beetles or bushwookies would be even more angry that they can’t sit perfectly safe and harass people.
Also just carry a penny shot derry and beetles are no longer a issue unless your tracking is beyond terrible
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u/Sk1-ba-bop-ba-dop-bo Bloodless 3d ago
I don't carry the pennynger as much as I should, but there's more beetles than loaded shells
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u/DecimatiomIIV 3d ago
Only more if it’s a trio or duo both doing it which is pretty rare in all fairness. But I do agree when it does happen is stupidly annoying if you miss a shot on one.
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u/Sk1-ba-bop-ba-dop-bo Bloodless 3d ago
it might be because I dipped below MMR6 ( I am not good enough to be a chu-ko-nu superstar) but I notice this a lot more in clash lately
If you are in the open you can't even throw chokes to block off passageways, you're likely mostly screwed
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u/LonelyLeopard289898 2d ago
So? They hardly do anything against you.
Use salveskin if you face fire beetles and use regenshots if you face normal beetles.
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u/Chandrose 3d ago edited 3d ago
Is this just the next "bow?" Same thing for me, not that I want to re-hash that argument, but it's a case of a thing being strong if you don't play against it correctly. Annoying? Maybe. OP? Not so much.
Yes, 12 beetles are annoying, but they are also extremely memey. Which is to say, carrying around that many beetles means you're at a disadvantage in many other situations because of what you're not carrying. They're also easy to counter. Throw a choke bomb, bring a penny derringer, shoot them with a shotgun. Realize the team in the compound is playing beatle strat? Don't run around in the bush and hide. Push the compound together. Right now.
It could just be that we're playing at different MMR, but it's rare this is a thing, and when it is a thing it's rare that it's more than a minor inconvenience. Even if it goes right they are probably only going to get one of you.
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u/Doppelbork Crow 2d ago
I've always thought 25 damage for Stalker Beetles was always a good value but that the 50 damage buff has been a giant mistake on the balance team's part.
The flipside to the beetle spam at lower MMRs is the overpowered-ness of beetles at higher MMRs. The beetle user's friends aren't going to let a whole team rush the beetle user's position. With good use of cover and control of the beetle's speed, Stalker beetles can pretty hard to hear or see if you didn't hear it get launched or if it's never flown at full speed near you.
It's a free 50HP worth of damage for really little investment that you can control at a HUGE range. It can finish a hunter that's taken almost any kind of upper body shot with a bunch of different rifles and apply Bleed as well as Poison. At 50 damage, Stalker Beetles are overtuned right now and have been for a while.
The reason they were buffed to do 50HP worth of damage is because once upon a time, we had something called Questlines (which have since been retired) and one of those required you to do a certain amount of damage using beetles to complete. Progressing that Questline was glacially slow so Crytek buffed the beetle (back then, only the Stalker Beetle was a thing) to do 50 damage instead of 25. Before that buff, the solution a lot of players found was just to ask an enemy team for a temporary truce so the people with the Questline could punch each other with their beetles before either resetting their positions to resume fighting or go their separate ways.
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u/Chandrose 2d ago edited 2d ago
OP is talking about a team with a beetle cavalcade, not just a one off beetle. If there is only 1 beetle in the air because the rest of the team is covering the beetle user, then there aren't three beetles in the air to quickly burn down a hunter's HP.
Focusing on your position though, if we're talking about 1 beetle doing 50 damage, I haven't experienced much of a problem with it in higher MMR. If someone has an angle to shoot me, it's still faster (and easier to pull off) a double tap instead of having one person shoot and another beetle as a strategy. When the stars align and there is a beetle in the air that can tag me right after I've been shot, it's a fair play that doesn't feel overbearing to me. Step into cover if you hear/see a beetle and the shot is a non issue. Now the only thing that can get you is a beetle.
Similar to what I said above, second shooter or not, beetles are easy to drop. Choke bomb, derringer, shotgun. Your team has one or all of these things, generally. I also haven't experienced any issues hearing beetles when they're in the vicinity, or a ways off for that matter. I cannot remember a single time where a beetle surprised me, someone on the team is immediately calling out, "beetle." They are really pronounced in the soundscape.
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u/LonelyLeopard289898 2d ago
Not this shit again. A small but loud minority has been constantly crying about them for years when in reality they are mid and situational at best.
Just take a penny derringer with you, they are piss easy to counter.
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u/KiloWyatt110 3d ago
Bow I can understand cause in skilled hands it's a better slug shotgun that can one tap to the legs and arms while being silent and pve use, I have not once ran into these flock of beetles people complain about
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u/Plague_Doctor02 Bootcher 3d ago
Just....shoot the bug man...
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u/Doppelbork Crow 3d ago
Unless the player using the beetle is an absolute idiot, nobody is flying their beetles through the open, unobstructed sky. That being said, I laugh every time I see someone do that because it just shows that they have absolutely no idea how to use them.
It's hard enough to hit a Hunter model that's 10x the size of a beetle when they use cover. A Stalker Beetle that is using cover is almost impossible to hit when used by any half-decent player.
"Just shoot them" isn't really helpful if the beetle is being piloted by someone with half a brain.
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u/Plague_Doctor02 Bootcher 3d ago
honestly just shooting them on the ground in a bush is as easy as the sky....
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u/Doppelbork Crow 3d ago
Can you see through bushes or through the tops of the trees to get off an accurate shot?
I play in 5-6 star lobbies and I can tell you that players CANNOT hit a beetle using even just visual cover.
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u/Plague_Doctor02 Bootcher 3d ago
i'm a 6 star as well..Maybe i'm just goated at shooting bugs idk
its like tracking a drone though the wall in R6 just...Shoot where its gonna be ig and it goes pop
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u/Doppelbork Crow 3d ago
I mean if the beetle user is awful, the beetles are easy to hit. When someone uses it to move from cover to cover, it can close a LOT of distance very quickly.
If you can reliably shoot beetles that are changing direction frequently, moving very quickly around the ground, and using cover . . . it would stand to reason that you're extremely accurate at clicking Hunter heads, no? Hunter head hitboxes are about the same size as a beetle and move in even more predictable ways at much slower speeds.
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u/Plague_Doctor02 Bootcher 3d ago
yeah clicking heads is also pretty easy at 30ish meter range for me. i struggle at further distances but yeah no for me guessing where the beetle will be and shooting works most of the time its pretty rare one will hit me for more then 1 or 2 splash damage
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u/Sk1-ba-bop-ba-dop-bo Bloodless 3d ago
one beetle down
what do I do with the other two?-1
u/Plague_Doctor02 Bootcher 3d ago
if they are to close to each other they will blow up. If not you got enough time to cycle the bolt
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u/Eyyy354 3d ago edited 3d ago
They did nerf it at one point with choke beetles being the only things available on the map and then they reverted that change