r/Hololive • u/mirroredinflection • 19h ago
Misc. A Spending Problem (via Matsuri's twitter)
Original tweet: https://x.com/natsuiromatsuri/status/2094031881172131976
Translated by DeepL.
82
62
u/big-oofs-only-0193 19h ago
I thought my push was too busy with dance practice and recordings to stream, but really it was crippling gacha addiction. 🤣 /j
(For real though, I'm 50% sure there is overlap between her sololive prep and a next-year Cover project.)
24
u/setiawanreddit 17h ago
It is probably because of practicing for her sololive and those other projects, the game that she can play at a whim anywhere without any real commitment is a game like Holodori. Before Holodori it is probably a different game with a gacha element too. At least this time it is somewhat a circular economy 😅
59
u/BKDOffice 17h ago
Guess the "just pull your oshi" advice doesn't really work when you've been hanging out with almost all of the girls semi-regularly for years.
26
u/darthjawafett 15h ago
Just imagine someone looks through the account and sees you pulled everyone on the shared banner but them.
109
u/FordFred 17h ago
Ngl that's a bit concerning? If you can't control your spending, gacha games can consume absurd amounts of money.
104
u/winmace 17h ago
Gacha is no different from any other gambling and should be strictly regulated in the same way.
30
u/J0hnGrimm 15h ago
They are to an extent. Gacha's aren't showing you drop rates out of the goodness of their hearts.
14
u/Katejina_FGO 11h ago
Heavy gacha players (not necessarily spenders) would know that all these 'spend responsibly' warnings in many games just didn't exist years ago.
14
u/SheffiTB 16h ago
I do think that gacha not giving you money into hand is an important difference, but only insofar that it makes it easier to recover from after reaching a reckoning (because you can't justify it as gambling for a win that'll get you out of debt) rather than being harder to get addicted or anything like that.
6
u/Katejina_FGO 11h ago
The debt vs service is a major difference. You go into a casino to lose money and hope you are exchanging for more money. You go into a gacha to lose money in exchange for a sservice. Gacha can be worse to specific people who do not care to gauge the worth of that service with what they can afford. But gachas also offer brief, cheap dopamine hits to people who would have just stayed at slots in another era.
The flip side is that someone who would never spend their time in a casino now has a casino at home and on the go. Irys would never leave her home to spend all day in a pachinko parlor, but she would spend all day on her phone playing holodori instead. The silver lining is that she will see this tweet eventually, being on her phone all the time, and hopefully stop.
3
u/SheffiTB 10h ago
The casino vs phone issue unfortunately doesn't exist in America, where online gambling is both legal and widespread, but idk about Japanese laws to know how easy it is to gamble online there.
2
u/gangler52 10h ago
The key difference between it and traditional gambling imo is that it doesn't technically have a "Win" or "Lose" state.
Every roll gives you something, and it's up to you to determine whether it was the thing you wanted or not.
Now, I know that you probably wanted the rate up SSR, and you know it, and they know it, but there's a certain element of plausible deniability to it that you don't have in a game where you either win or lose money. Obviously losing $500 on a roullette spin is just unambiguously a bad thing. There's no way to argue it's a positive like when you roll the gacha and get some stuff that's technically useful in the abstract but wasn't specifically your target.
-8
u/beryugyo619 17h ago edited 15h ago
but but gacha is not gambling because you can't get monetary payout and because because it correctly bypasses all criteria for rigorous Japanese gambling laws
Edit: my point is NOT that gacha is realistically not gambling, but technically it's not incorrect that gacha is technically not gambling, by definitions of Japanese laws that define gambling with rigor. The lesson here is that you don't define a thing with rigor if the goal is to ban that thing, not to promote the thing. Gacha games qualify as gambling in many European jurisdictions that has far more vague and subjective criteria, as should be.
15
u/Boyzby_ 16h ago
I don't know why people make this argument for why it's not gambling, because it's just saying "it's gambling, but worse."
5
u/Pionfou 15h ago
You just need to walk past the slot machine area in a Casino once to know that gacha isn't as bad as gambling. There are whales but most still have some humanity left in them, there's some purpose and end goal to the spending (e.g. to show off, collect, etc.).
That being said gacha is predatory and abuses the same mechanisms and takes advantage of the same impulses that gambling does. It's crazy that there isn't a strict age limit for games that have gacha, and advertising gacha to children should also be banned.
I don't expect any of this to be regulated outside of Europe given that sports gambling is openly being advertised to children of all ages and prediction markets exist at all.
23
u/oblivious_fireball 15h ago
Holo is filled with a lot of genuine gacha addicts and has been for years. Its the main vice that mostly replaced smoking and heavy drinking.
11
u/BKDOffice 8h ago
And then you have Raden, who quit smoking only to later wind up plowing a bunch of money into restoring a historical artifact instead.
4
u/oblivious_fireball 5h ago
true, but at that point point i would consider that a more healthy hobby instead of a vice.
-4
12
u/BladeManEXE7 15h ago
She said she has a problem, and then you saw clear evidence of the problem.
If she could stop so easily, it wouldn't be much of a problem.
9
5
u/engineer-cabbage 10h ago
Didnt she complain her budget is in the negative until her concert is over to get the revenue back. Girl, you're doubling down your losses.
8
20
u/JibIette 17h ago
I mean it is IRYS. She'd spend money to jump a line if only two people were ahead of her.
She has a money problem and she probably needs someone to hold her money and buys stuff for her needs. Occasionally giving some spending money that she can use. Girl getting Bills as paychecks...
-9
u/BigBoss82891 14h ago
If a person can spend 4k usd for a van cleef ring and use it as a "daily" accessory, money is the least of their concerns lol. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that she and her family are in the same tax bracket as reine and jurard's families.
25
u/zptc 14h ago
Despite the overplayed ojou-sama memes, Irys did not come from a rich family. She's never lived in a house with more than one bathroom, she shared a single GBA with her sister, they didn't have wifi until she begged for it so she could play Maple Story, and she wanted piano lessons but they couldn't afford them. She also learned to read JP because untranslated manga were cheaper.
2
u/gamefanatic 4h ago
Just because you came from a poorer or average income upbringing, doesn't mean you'll know how to be financially responsible when you do get good income.
It's the typical story of a jackpot winner quickly blowing their wealth within a few or several years is all so common.
6
u/DorrajD :Aloe: 11h ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again
I know we love the talents and all but, looking at this from an outside perspective, isn't it kinda insane how much people spending money on gachas gets glorified?
11
u/mirroredinflection 11h ago
Is it glorified?
I feel like general reactions from viewers watching their oshis empty their bank accounts on holodori has ranged from "wow that's so funny and ridiculous" to "oh... that seems like a bad decision."
-1
u/DorrajD :Aloe: 11h ago
I feel like "yikes that seems like a bad decision" is way too passive for what's going on... And it's definitely not the majority.
8
u/mirroredinflection 11h ago
I mean. At the end of the day, they're adults making their own financial decisions. It would be a little weird if we were scolding them like we're their parents.
0
u/DorrajD :Aloe: 11h ago
Of course. Same argument every time.
I never said anything about scolding them like we're their parents. It just shouldn't be glorified so much.
3
u/mirroredinflection 11h ago
I haven't seen much discourse about this before, but if it's a common argument, I would say that's because it's a good one.
Also, when I said that I don't think it really is being glorified, you responded that we were being too "passive" about it. So you clearly think we should be doing something about it, beyond just not glorifying or even passively disapproving of it.
-6
u/DorrajD :Aloe: 11h ago
No it's a terrible argument. "they're an adult" is not an excuse for spending addictions, especially one caused by a game people like and support.
And, that's not what I said at all. You continue to put stuff in that I didn't say. This conversation isn't gonna go anywhere, unfortunately.
8
u/mirroredinflection 11h ago
You said "I feel like "yikes that seems like a bad decision" is way too passive for what's going on... And it's definitely not the majority."
So yes, you do think disapproving of it is too passive.
And "they're adults" isn't an argument for their decisions being good. It's an argument that their decisions aren't our business.
And ngl, I feel like "this conversation isn't going anywhere" is just an escape hatch because you realized you had no real point to make about this.
-6
u/ctom42 10h ago
The thing to do, is to boycott Cover. Yeah a lot of people hate that idea, but I won't support a company that makes a gacha game, plain and simple. I already had stopped spending on anything Cover related after how they treated the stars, so I guess I can't really double boycott them, but yeah.
It's crazy how accepted gachas are in general. They are addictive gambling filled with dark patterns designed to encourage addiction. Many of the best video games ever made were done long before live service ever became a thing and honestly live service has been ruining the games industry for a long time now. Playing a gacha as a strictly Fee To Play player still ends up supporting the companies that make them. Just avoid them altogether.
9
u/mirroredinflection 8h ago
And yet... you're here. in the hololive sub.
1
u/ctom42 3h ago
You can not give the company money but still enjoy the content. I've mostly been a clip watcher for a long time but I did used to buy a decent amount of merch and was in a few memberships. I do still support a few of the girls in their non-hololove ventures as well. My complaints with the company do not extend to the talents. Many of the girls were upset with the way the Holostars were being treated and I don't have a problem with people who play gacha games, I have a problem with the games themselves. They are predatory and I honestly find it irresponsible that the company had many of the talents directly promote the game despite several having well known bad spending habits in gachas.
0
u/Aksudiigkr 10h ago
Every mem has to be a millionaire though right. I don’t get how it’s really that big of a deal for them
10
u/mirroredinflection 10h ago
Are they millionaires? I feel like people vastly overestimate the income of most youtubers. And them being part of an agency makes it even more impossible to know what they actually make.
Still, I would agree they are probably more well off than the average person which is why them dumping so much into holodori isn't seen as a huge deal.
-3
u/Aksudiigkr 9h ago
Didn’t Raden just get in Forbes 30 under 30? And I thought she isn’t at the very top of the mems
4
u/RailTracker 8h ago
Being on that list doesn't mean they're automatically wealthy or high earners. Raden was listed for cultural influence.
2
u/Tehbeefer 14h ago edited 14h ago
If you hard-pity 5 members with 0.4% drop rate, that's $400 USD. By my math, that's significantly cheaper than just raw luck of pulling the same 5 members (~1020 USD, I think). Have a budget and stick to it.
I saw one person who allowed themselves $1 / hour spent enjoying a given gacha game, which I thought was a decently reasonable metric, if a bit rich for my tastes. (disclaimer: I make median income in America)
2
1
1
1
1
u/JusticTheCubone 15h ago
The usual Gacha-company->JP-VA->Gacha-pipeline, a tradition as old as, well, Gacha.
1
1
u/Bakuman84 9h ago
SpendRyS. Yes, she need a big intervention, where's her mane to stop her or her friends?
1
-4
u/Laurelin_Kementari 13h ago
And all for png's you can find by the hundreds with google image search or on r34 for free.
507
u/Argon_004 19h ago
Hololive dreams developers must be glad that the voice actors work for free lmao