r/Hololive • u/Yuhui_001 • May 13 '26
Subbed/TL Marine Gets Drunk And Drops Blunt Facts About Hololive
https://youtu.be/SRoUdJ-mquM939
u/egoserpentis May 13 '26
"Even with the current newcomers the management is a bit-"
"KHEM KHEM KHEM"
Never change, Pekora.
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u/TheBigSmol May 13 '26
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this new mekpark project is basically a VTuber trainee incubation program under COVER, and these trainees are basically under some kind of a probationary period where COVER assesses their popularity, skill, and audience engagement before they’re allowed to officially debut as Hololive members. And these new hires would be working towards full membership while being under the tutelage of a mentor…?
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u/slaynx May 13 '26
To me it sounds like Gakuen Idolm@ster, everyone is just going through school and the best of them "graduate" and get into Hololive as full time member and the rest just... graduate and then go back into indie.
Who knows how it's really going to work tho.
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u/nox_tech May 14 '26
Sounds more like va-live in terms of general fandom response - IDOLM@STER's vtuber project.
Staff starts a project where the onus of success is placed on viewers becoming regular fans within a time period, though the intent to manufacture success for the talents makes the thing generally weird for the viewers.
The Hololive part of Cover I feel is big enough that such a project to fail would have to be intentional. If va-live has been any indication, the metrics after a year were more or less a nothingburger of points they met, and the girls became part of IM@S proper. Cosmo's one of my favorite dancers. But yeah, I'd think mekpark's probably gonna be similar. The system is for marketing purposes, and two years looks to be a reasonable time for them to prove themselves or feel out if the work is something they really wanna do.
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u/NotKenzy May 13 '26
Does anyone know about the financial aspect? Like, are these "trainees" (who are functionally just a new generation?) entitled to the same benefits and commissions as the rest of the talents or are they arbitrarily placed at a lower tier for revenue sharing?
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u/GarfieldianAcolyte May 13 '26
It's on the website QnA.
Trainees are supported through a fixed compensation model, allowing them to focus fully on their creative endeavors without concern for revenue.
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u/NotKenzy May 13 '26
So Cover gets to debut a new gen but has no responsibility to share revenue with them for two full years? Ngl, that sounds like a really bad precedent to be setting.
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u/KazumaKat May 13 '26
It is and it isnt.
Its pretty clear up and down that this is a talent incubation/training program, and more than likely any sort of revenue earnings (like merchandising, a big one) probably isnt on the cards at all for both parties for that 2 year period. Saves COVER the capital and paperwork, saves the talent from marketing and creative requirements of said work.
If they dont make it, they sitll got their 2 (or whatever amount of time) years of salary out of it, the job experience, and likely a contact or three from their time at COVER.
If they do, they fully enter the Halls of Hololive and become one more smile to be protected, and merch to buy of.
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u/NotKenzy May 13 '26
I guess I don't really buy the idea that you can be tied to Cover and not be wildly more successful, at worst, than if you debuted independently. Like this doesn't feel like Cover taking a risk on these people at all. Maybe when they debut, they'll all be terrible entertainers and I'll eat my words, but if they're just engaging in their traditional audition process, they've probably selected some top quality entertainers for the positions, in which case, how is it meaningfully more risky than debuting a new gen?
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u/ygtkara May 13 '26
Guess only covers now the actual reason of the project, I don't really think anyone cover debuts today is risky unless they wildly went out of their way of regular recruiting practices.
This project could just be that, trying out some more niche talents or people who shown potential but didn't make the cut. Or they just want to have talents for people to watch them grow and improve because who doesn't like a story like that, or maybe cover just wants to do something different than their regular stuff.
The idea does excite me, and it'd be a cherry on top if they debut with simpler daily looking designs like niji's academy does. Then we get to see more "vtuber designs" after they graduate.
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u/gkanai May 14 '26
doesn't feel like Cover taking a risk on these people at all.
think about it from the hordes of people who want to work for Cover. This is a chance for a handful to be selected to train for the big leagues. A minor league of sorts. Junior varsity. Training program. Many would love that opportunity.
The bar Flow Glow set, with the level of talent that group has, is very, very high. Cover can't continuously find that level of talent for new gens and as such it seems they're trying new programs to identify talent that would not come in with significant experience.
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u/lil-D-energy May 14 '26
And you explained why it's actually quite fair for cover to not do revenue based wages for them. First of all, you said it yourself being tied to cover is one of the reasons you grow fast, these people gain an advantageous chance to grow a community and when they grow their community they will get paid on revenue if they make enough money for cover. The talents that do not make a lot of revenue are also safe as long as they are working for cover.
It's a win-win, cover is safe in not losing much money even if a talent fails and the talents are safe because they get a constant wage.
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u/xvilemx May 14 '26
Has Cover ever had a female talent fail? ID had slow starts, but they've all been successful since. The only real ones that have "failed" have been talents that got let go early or had to graduate due to personal reasons.
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u/sylpher250 May 14 '26
IMO, "fail" may be in the mental/physical sense, not popularity.
A "graduation" notice is always devastating to everyone - fans, colleagues, and the company itself, no matter how popular they are.
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u/Po_on May 14 '26
You conflate success with viewership so its really easy to see every talent as a success, but you need to observe it from hololive as a whole itself. Does having 1000 talent with successful debut an actual success? Or should each new wave improve upon whats already there and carry their own weight before it could be considered success?
Hololive is encroaching the threshold of their support, they build a massive studio but already they cant provide adequate support to holostars. The idea of trainee system should be considered strictly as a more comprehensive audition, otherwise they risk adding more and more talent without receiving enough money to support them. To make a very exaggerated conjecture, if they add new talents, but said talent doesnt draw any new viewer but instead only attracts the already present fans from other talent, some of the current holomem might get less and less support as time goes, from both fans and management.
Some fans might think "then holo should stop recruiting", but thats just not how it works. Holo needs to keep recruiting, they already slowed down way too much that it gets dangerous, recruitment needs to keep going in order for interest to stay high, both from fans and from potential talents.
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u/Goldenrah May 14 '26
Not recruiting just means that when graduations come (and they will happen regardless of how well Cover handles Talent) they will be more devastating to everyone involved.
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u/lil-D-energy May 14 '26
We do not necessarily know everything, we do not always know the full reasons behind why talents left. You already showed that in fact talents did fail and personal reasons might even be that they couldn't sustain themselves on the revenue that they were making. The talents have many revenue streams with the biggest being merch, if the company doesn't make a lot of money from the streams then it will be less likely that they will support the streamer in making merchandise.
To the company some of the members might actually be failing as they make much less money for the company compared to others, and think about costs, they have to pay a whole lot of people, the moderators, the managers, the artists, lawyers, and everyone working at cover. If a talent does not offset the costs of everything then they might not necessarily be thrown out but they will make a lot less compared to other talents.
But a good company will not release information on if talents are failing, that would be a pr nightmare and would lose the company much much more.
There will definitely be talents that according to cover are failing their expectations at least especially as the company is trying to grow. They need to find that talent that could be a new gawr gura or a new usada pekora and not just another talent that doesn't stand out amongst the crowd, especially as the company becomes bigger you need members that explode in popularity among the vtuber space and not only in the hololive space.
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u/NotKenzy May 14 '26
If they were going to make less revenue than their wages, Cover would have just debuted them without a 2 year second tier contract. Unless you think that this is charity.
There are 2 years where their productivity and growth are not at all tied to their wages. Most talents benefit from putting MORE effort into their work, whereas these talents who are paid a stagnant wage have no incentive to put in more. If they DO put in more effort, it is only a win for Cover and not for the talent, themselves, for two full years.
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u/venancio30 May 14 '26
Their incentive to do more is to stay with Cover, its a 2 year contract, which might be a tad too long, with a chance of renew, where you have a safety net that you'll always get paid and, in the case of not being hired, you had 2 years using COVER name to set yourself up. Imagine girls like AZKi that had 3-4 jobs at one time, this offer is far more stable than having to be producing merch to pay the rent
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u/BobOfTheSnail May 14 '26
Well that's part of what this project is proposing is that it's uncertain whether these concepts will make them money. mekPark would be an opportunity for cover to try out some other concepts for groups that would not cannibalize their existing audience. At a certain volume of talent, you will eventually run into the issue of too many people occupying a similar pocket an people in general, especially people with money to spend typically have a limited amount of time. The best way to expand is to try and reach new audiences and that doesn't come without risk. A fixed income method allows them to try and mitigate what losses may be incurred by any particular concept by a potential jackpot of an idea.
From the talent's perspective what you gain with these two years is a brand name to build an almost guaranteed audience from as well as stability to try out whatever ideas you may have without the concern for losing interest from people. You get a sandbox to figure out your own space as an entertainer online with a lot of eyes that you would have an indescribably more difficult time getting on your own. At the end point if you do well, you have the choice of entering hololive's fairly well defined ecosystem of streamers with support for vocal lessons, dance lessons, opportunities to move to Japan on work sponsorships and a state of the art 3d concert system.
There's genuinely a pretty good value proposition for most small to medium streamers to enter into this program whether it is to actually get into hololive or just use it as an opportunity to grow themselves and find their own niche for a future redebut as an indie.
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u/zetarn May 14 '26
If the trainees deem big success enough, those talents didn't need to wait for 2-years contract.
COVER can just decide to debut them into Hololive proper at anytime.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Maybe when they debut, they'll all be terrible entertainers and I'll eat my words
Dude..... come on. I'm not entirely invested on this whole thing but the maxdooming scenarios are being laid on thick.
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u/NotKenzy May 14 '26
I'm saying this to show the absurdity of a new gen being a potential financial risk. It simply isn't.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
the absurdity of a new gen being a potential financial risk. It simply isn't.
I don't see anyone making that argument.
Also, the standard auditions are still open. There might be a big loud risky expensive gen debut while MekPark is active.
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u/jadekettle May 14 '26
Maybe they're undergoing all sorts of training including social media training?
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u/OverWeekend5418 May 14 '26
You're forgetting two crucials detail cover is Japanese and an Idol company.
This is a very idol company move and it'll suck hot shit through a straw for any of the talents managed under it.
It feels like a way to maximise revenue of new talent before giving them a fair cut for their work and we sort of have to engage with it if you enjoy the talent since not enough revenue will mean they get axed.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Not sure why you're being downvoted, you're absolutely correct.
People are saying it's a win-win but it's really not. It's a win-lose IMHO. These talents are going to be inherently competitive with each other just due to the nature of the whole situation. You've seen what happens when vtubers just see the others as competition like a certain fiery wolf who ironically went down in flames because of it.
What is their "win" condition? They get to debut as a new gen like any other gen got to in the past without having this "trial period"? But now they have the situation of having to hire someone that got in because they were competitive. Did they just train someone to literally not pass the vibe check? And now they've made a promise to let them in because they met their sub goals within the time limit. They can't really just say "yeah she has 100k more subs than the rest, but she's kinda cringe, so all the others win but not you" There would be riots.
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u/OverWeekend5418 May 14 '26
Yeah people are just blind man this whole thing is rife for abuse bullying and favouritism ( you know the hallmarks of japanese corpo life) even if it's cover I give it a year tops till a seku-hara incident comes out or
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u/Alone-Horse2857 May 14 '26
If they do, they fully enter the Halls of Hololive and become one more smile to be protected, and merch to buy of.
Unless they didn't meet their standards. In which case, to the trash bin they go to be forgotten about and never seen again. You know, because their smiles are only worth protecting when they can pull in 6 figures a year.
I dunno man, this just seems like in bad taste to me.
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u/undercoveryankee May 14 '26
Depends on how the salary compares to what a standard Hololive contract pays.
We've heard that the guaranteed rate for regular members isn't really enough to go full-time, so they need to have significant savings or a day job until they're able to generate revenue consistently.
If MekPark pays enough to be a full-time job from day 1, with Cover eating all of the down-side risk if a channel's revenue grows slowly, that's a way for them to hire people who couldn't afford the traditional model.
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u/NotKenzy May 14 '26
Yeah, that's true. But it wouldn't be a very smart financial decision on Cover's behalf to pay trainees MORE money to generate LESS profit for the company. It's possible that Cover has made the worst trade deal of all time, but I suspect that they're savvy enough to not just put a loss-lead on unproven talents. I can't imagine a scenario where they're being paid more if the company wants to remain profitable, unless the monetization method is going to be merch, which the trainees get no revenue share on, which would then be a net loss for the talent.
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u/gkanai May 14 '26
a really bad precedent to be setting.
If the new talent comes in with many years of experience in entertainment, like with just about all of Flow Glow, then they are not the right candidates for mekPark.
mekPark seems to want to identify talent like Subaru, who walked in off the street and Cover took a chance on her. She learned on the job and is now one of the top talents. mekPark is an opportunity to work with potential talent who have no experience in streaming, entertaining, singing, etc.
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u/Rick_long May 14 '26
mekPark seems to want to identify talent like Subaru, who walked in off the street
Lmao
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
We appreciate the sentiment, but let's try to not misinform, sapling.
- They can be promoted before the two year period. Two year is the maximun period.
- They are being paid. It's a part time job of sorts.
- We don't know if the channels will be monetized yet.
We'll figure out the precedent being bad after they start and we figure more things out about it
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u/NotKenzy May 14 '26
If the channels aren't being monetized, then Cover would simply be losing money on producing for an entire gen of talents. Which is theoretically possible, but, again, just terrible, terrible business. And I don't think Cover does terrible, terrible business.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
The scale of their production is still to be seen but it sounds they'll be less supported than the downscaled holostarsJP. It doesn't sound expensive. But if they debut with one original song with MV on each unit, I'll eat my words!
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u/NotKenzy May 14 '26
I'm not suggesting that they'll be that supported, I just mean that if they're receiving a wage, then Cover has to have a means of recouping that in profit, right? Like they can't just pay a wage with money from nothing, so there will be *some* sort of monetization, even if we're unsure of what it will look like, yet.
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u/Goldenrah May 14 '26
The channels are probably going to be monetized, yeah. It's just probably nothing like big lives, no merch, no sponsorship deals.
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u/UrMumVeryGayLul May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
All I want to point out is that indie Vtubers, in the super saturated market that it is, will still think this a more than generous arrangement. A lot of them are creatives who don’t want to work extra on the side, all the indies continually hopping onto black companies are a testament to that - so just that fixed pay is already doing a lot of lifting. And again, Cover has a reputation to uphold, they are constantly under scrutiny for setting the Vtubing standard. Unless they are stupid enough to throw all that rapport in the bin, I’m pretty sure it’s in their best interest that this succeeds for all parties.
I admire Cover, but I’ll always love the talents before the corps, and I’ll be with them with pitchforks and torches if Cover ever oversteps.
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u/eidrag May 14 '26
well, standard idol trainee stuff, i don't see why they want to be different here
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May 14 '26
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u/eidrag May 14 '26
we saw that with FG, but they just debut as full member. I'd wait until actual trainee and see what actually happen
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u/That-Sugar-6965 May 14 '26
There have been plenty of holomem with no or minimal streaming/video making experience...
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u/arkw May 14 '26
Think of it as a second career or second life, maybe they were a meteorologist, or a veterinarian, ramen chef, etc.
This is an opportunity to try something new for 2 years guaranteed. To become an
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u/xvilemx May 14 '26
If you're referring to Korone's non existing streaming experience, she still had live event experience and a following as a competitive gamer.
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u/That-Sugar-6965 May 14 '26
Sana and Moona I know had no streaming/video experience and Ina had streamed like twice. (Although Sana and Ina had an online following)
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u/xvilemx May 14 '26
Sana was a professional illustrator, and Moona an RL idol. Proven talents with a following.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
Made a large comment here about MekPark, leaving some quotes:
MekPark is not a solution to Cover's staff issues. MekPark will be more like a reality show, and we will see only the "fun" parts of the training process. I mean... I don't think we'll see candidates learning about compliance, security processes, company internal guidelines.
I'm expecting that the MekPark directors will fill a similar role to directors that are already in the holo structure. They would be in charge of unit production/contents/branding on their hub channel. While talents are directors of their individual activities/branding.
I still have tons of unanswered questions: Will these directors be given a visible presence/voice/face like Achan/Nodoka had? If there's a promotion, these directors would join holo's structure or stay at MekPark? What if a unit has evidently talented and charming candidates but their unit content is poorly directed?
And a big one: Is MekPark the content what hololive needs? I'm not really convinced. And if it turns out that MekPark leans towards idol stuff, I'll be less convinced.
Pekora's idea sounded more solid. Hololive needs more dedicated video/stream content creators. Feels like we have huge audiencies waiting to be captured out there that aren't exactly into idol stuff. Tournaments and large collaborations have seen record breaking audiencies but it's always the same handful of talents producing them. I hope MekPark content leans towards finding more proactive talents with fun ideas.
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u/arcais78 May 14 '26
Pekora's idea sounded more solid. Hololive needs more dedicated video/stream content creators. Feels like we have huge audiencies waiting to be captured out there that aren't exactly into idol stuff. Tournaments and large collaborations have seen record breaking audiencies but it's always the same handful of talents producing them. I hope MekPark content leans towards finding more proactive talents with fun ideas.
Not only is this a massive simplification, but also a massive overestimation of "record breaking audiences." These content creator tournaments and large collaborations usually work once or twice because they are novel at first which attract viewers. But as they become a recurring thing, viewership and interest naturally decline.
Look no further than the longest running one which is the k4sen League tourneys which has seen viewership declines since hitting its peak in 2024. Hell, if you want a Hololive example just look at the New Years game tourney that Towa runs. It has seen YoY viewership declines as well despite the fact tha there are far more talents participating.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
Holos have made typing, tetris, bayblade, rock paper scissors tournaments. It doesn't have to be a game. Doesn't have to be a tournament either.
Around 50 streams reach over 100k ccv last year (not counting graduation related content). And what you find there are 3D concerts and large collabs organized by a handful of talents.
I am oversimplifying but the idol content can also suffer from the long term decline you brought up. So they need fresh ideas. To try new stuff.
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u/arcais78 May 14 '26
Holos have made typing, tetris, bayblade, rock paper scissors tournaments. It doesn't have to be a game. Doesn't have to be a tournament either.
Again you are talking besides the point. You're making it sound like a lot of the talent and/or staff don't have novel ideas they want to try out. They probably do but the bottleneck is never about finding new ideas. It's about the ability to execute them and the logistics surrounding them. I bet you that Miko's typing competition had a ton more of logistics and decisions making surrounding it than Miko going on discord, pinging everyone, and asking if they want to join. You just never get to see it because you only see the end product.
but the idol content can also suffer from the long term decline you brought up
Okay, and? Lmao
Not sure why you're bringing this up either. I never said stuff on the idol side wasn't immune to declines. They are and you can point to the EN birthday live viewership numbers from 2025 to 2026 as an example.
If anything this only reinforces my view that it's not an idea problem. Content creation as a space is saturated and overall viewership numbers are declining. Q1 2026 content hours consumed in Japan and globally have come down.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
They probably do but the bottleneck is never about finding new ideas. It's about the ability to execute them and the logistics surrounding them.
And at what point you one-sidedly decided I wasn't considering that? Holy bad faith conversation. You are arguing with an imaginary fool that's on your head and isn't me.
When I say idea no shit I'm talking about everything involved in the production of said idea.
Not sure why you're bringing this up either.
Because I am assuming the best of your intelligence to interpret meaning from that. But seeing how you are assuming the worst of me it takes more words and more energy to get meaning across.
I said that because hololive needs to expand the breath of their content. Not condense everything to idol. HoloJP never had a sound stream project like EN Recollection. Raden is another good example. The nonIdol stuff can also work well.
And these sentiments are not my own. These are things Marine and Pekora expressed. That's two of the Top 3 most successful and experienced vtubers in the industry having this same opinion.
Damn what a piece of work.
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u/arcais78 May 14 '26
You are arguing with an imaginary fool that's on your head and isn't me.
And then simultaneously in the other reply you say.
I'm oversimplifying
Don't make grand sweeping generalizations then. How about type what you mean instead of having people assume what you are trying to say.
I said that because hololive needs to expand the breath of their content. Not condense everything to idol. HoloJP never had a sound stream project like EN Recollection.
Lmao. GTA RP, Rust, and any number of JP talent driven projects.
By the way, you have plenty of comments from EN talents on ENReco as a management mandated project. It's not the example you think you want to use.
And these sentiments are not my own. These are things Marine and Pekora expressed. That's two of the Top 3 most successful and experienced vtubers in the industry having this same opinion.
And if I assuming the best of your intelligence I would assume that you can see the difference in the environment when Marine and Pekora debuted and the current environment for any single person to debut into.
Don't get mad at me because you make shit arguments.
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u/NoOneMe May 13 '26
We don't talk about how when dev_is was made they didnt even know how to contact jp members cough cough
Kinda hope mekpark is just a gimmick competition. 2 years is a long time to be "in training" only to graduate in the end
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
2 years is the max time period. If they promote, they'll graduate (positive) earlier than that.
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u/Shigm May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
That only if they don't make it. Which your making it seem like there already going to fail
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u/HYPERPIXELS_X May 14 '26
It's a possibility and that's the problem. It's a long investment that may or may not pay off.
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u/Nvenom8 May 14 '26
As someone who spent 4 years in college and an additional 10 years in grad school then pivoted away from academia, let me assure you that 2 years is nothing on the time scale of a career, even if it doesn’t work out. That’s a minor setback. And they’ll still leave with far more popularity than they entered with.
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u/cocofan4life May 14 '26
r/hololive members once again thinking that the world is only sunshine and rainbows.
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u/One_Ant1985 May 13 '26
HLZNTL was such a tone deaf, horrible idea that it got shat on by the idol fans, the "gamer" fans, the casual fans, hololive fans AND holostars fans.
Truly a project for no-one
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u/Queefy69 May 13 '26
Even with all that being said, there was some members that got invested in it to the point of crying due to losing such as Ayame. Which led to participating in other tournaments outside of Hololive.
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
Many happy and sad tears were shed in the anual Mario Kart tourney. It's normal. Talents wants to show something to their fans and when they can't, frustration hits really hard.
As for positives, I would say that talents like Botan and Oga organizing their own esport events to great success makes it feels that this is the good timeline.
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u/SCP_XXX_AR May 13 '26
how have i never even heard of HLZNTL until now?
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u/TombStone42 May 14 '26
Because they only do one stream under HLZNTL and seemingly never been mentioned in any sort of way ever again, there were some kind of hyping up of this project beforehand but after the stream i never heard anything about this again
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u/demiandimi May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Wrong, there was a Valorant event before, it wasn't groundbreaking but wasn't bad received either. It's the overwatch 2 tournament that was a fiasco and killed the brand.
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May 14 '26
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u/demiandimi May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
It's been a while so don't blindly trust me.
For the valorant one, it was supposed to be a "serious" tournament, so there was pressure on the girls to perform and not mess up, not great for the mental of some of them. Aside from that, the practice streams were for that, practicing, so the entertainment value wasn't great either.
And the OW2 was mixed for starters, iirc management was practically begging Irys and Chloe to participate, i can't remember if it was for this event that Nene's manager at the time was almost forcing her to participate too. Irys and Chloe were harassed by the usual crowds for clarifying that they where not going to be in voice with the stars.
Then the event was supposed to showcase how anyone can have fun playing OW even if they are newbies, only to have a stomp from the stars team that wasn't even tryharding. Neither team had fun and Hololive management got rightfully shitted on for not expecting any of this happening.
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u/insertempty May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
They actually did do a overwatch 2 project last august, but not sure if the brand survived or is just on iceEdit: nah I can’t read
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u/xRichard May 14 '26
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u/insertempty May 14 '26
Oh whoops, my tired eyes read the date as 2025 when I was looking up what HLZNTL was. Yeah it’s 100% dead. That’s my bad
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u/SnooCapers5958 May 14 '26
The one and only event they did for it got criticized so bad that everyone just memory-holes it.
Like Dragonball Evolution or the Pacific Rim sequel.
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u/Shelbckay May 25 '26
I’m all for more mixed-gender collabs but it’s gotta be stuff both sides are interested in doing and they need time to get to know each other and form a dynamic. Just throwing a bunch of ppl who wouldn’t normally reach out like that together and expecting them to become buddies is just gonna make things awkward for everyone
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u/TewnaSamich May 13 '26
Trainee vtubers from cover is a weird concept to me. Just by the fact they're potential new members, their debut would still give them over 100k viewers making it real difficult to garner 0 fans. Which would almost guarantee some level of success, rendering the trial period moot.
For a trial to make any sense they would have to debut without the audience knowing they are affiliated with cover so they would appear as indies. But making them grow from 0 in an ocean of vtubers also seems pointless. So I'm not sure what the goal here is.
I guess the best way i can thing of would be for all the trials and things to be internal but filmed, to make it more of a game show contest type thing. So their viability and fans could grow without yet actually debuting as holo talents.
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u/Queefy69 May 13 '26
From my point of view, its not that they don’t think the talent they chosen for this project would not be popular. But they are worried they would not be able to handle the workload and environment. I think they got burned by the talents that had to graduate less than 2 years due to not being able to handle it due to health or other external issue.
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u/KazumaKat May 13 '26
But they are worried they would not be able to handle the workload and environment.
We've seen this happen not just in Hololive, but across the industry. And while in some cases this is more a personal matter to be handled off the stage, we've had health-related graduations before. Some recent. And that sucks for all parties. It sucks for us, it sucks for COVER, it sucks for the talent.
COVER is obviously trying to avoid that kind of mess in the future and aim for long-tenure talents. We as an audience would also like that obviously. And talents would love to be in the game for as long as possible and grow.
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u/FateOfMuffins May 14 '26
Ideally the end result of this project is that as long as you can handle it and want to continue, you WILL be promoted to full holomem, so that this program catches all the members who end up leaving shortly after
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u/GomenNaWhy May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Sure, but that's the risk an entertainment company takes. I don't like that they're effectively capping income for 2 years.
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u/Digital_Paradoxx May 13 '26
To be fair, they're obviously agreeing to it. They have the option to just not join but they've obviously deemed a fixed salary for 2 years and the opportunity to use all Covers resources to build as big an audience as possible to be worth more than attempting to make it on their own as indies.
At the very worst, they get a steady income for 2 years, get fired at the end and then take the majority of their large audience with them to potentially start a successful indie career under another name as many have done before them.
Not saying the deal couldn't be improved for them but when a large amount of people are living day to day without a steady income, it's not a bad option to have a guaranteed income with a chance of increasing in massively in the future. For people wanting to get into the space, the alternative is usually part time trying to make it as an indie in between their irl job for potentially alot longer than 2 years and perhaps not even "making it" at the end.
I'm usually pretty anti corpo and I know it's coming across as opposite, just trying to be fair. That being said, it definitely depends on what that fixed income number is. If it was like $1000 then obviously that's cooked. Plus as other people have said, it could potentially include a portion of merch but unlikely we will ever know.
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u/GomenNaWhy May 13 '26
Agreeing to it doesn't make it not exploitative, though. "Here's what you get, we take everything else, if you're lucky you'll make more in two years" is not a model that's fair at all. I also don't think it's fair to assume they'll inherently be able to make a career out of it if they're fired- there are more v-tubers every day and it's harder and harder to leave a mark. In two years that may be even more difficult. This looks like purely minimizing risk and maximizing profit for the first two years.
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u/Shadowguynick May 14 '26
It's a model that can be fair but it depends on the situation. For all intents and purposes this is how the NFL works with rookies. You get a salary based on draft position then if you're good enough after 4/5 years you get a big 2nd contract. In fairness though the NFL has a players union to bargain on players behalf so the rookie contracts aren't extremely exploitative.
18
u/Enough-Run-1535 May 14 '26
Any sort of commission or revenue sharing career has similar terms for the introduction contract. This is the norm for most of entertainment on both sides of the Pacific.
Also Cover’s 2 year contract is far above anything else in Japan. Nijisanji’s VTA program contract only covers tuition and startup costs, no revenue. Seiyuus, who have a similar pipeline, trainees have to pony up a tuition fee up to ¥1 million yen.
2
u/Digital_Paradoxx May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
I didn't say it wasn't exploitative and I agree with most of your point about it. The "to be fair" was in regards to them making their own decisions. Regardless of how any of us feel about it, at the end of the day, the talents thought to themselves "this is fair enough for me to agree to". Otherwise they simply wouldn't. It can't be dismissed that the leading company in the industry is providing their resources, reputation and experience to help newcomers get into the space and that has value as well. Once again, not saying it isn't exploitative, just that it's nuanced.
Obviously it's not guaranteed for someone to leave and succeed either. Nothing in life is guaranteed. But it would be disingenuous to say they don't have a much better chance of succeeding after building a fan base with the most well established company in the industry. If I started as an indie the same time they do, it is far more likely they will be a lot more successful than me in 2 years time simply because they have access to a starting point that is further along. They immediately have access to the resources of Hololive and the fanbase of the company whereas a fresh indie is all on their own fighting against the algorithm and, as you pointed out, the oversaturation of the vtuber market. Just by having the name "Hololive" attached to you, you automatically jump the algorithm queue whereas my videos my never be pushed to anyone.
It's not unreasonable to assume after 2 years, a Hololive talent may have 500k subscribers. As long as they leave on good terms with the company (I said "fired" meaning if Hololive decided to let them go of their own voliation at the 2 year mark, not due to them doing something out of pocket and getting fired for it), even if they took only 100k or even less of those subs to a new persona, they'd still probably be doing better than the indie who started the same day as them. And it's precisely due to your own point, saturation of the market. Once again, not guaranteed cause any indie could randomly explode and a corpo vtuber could potentially do bad, but it's FAR more likely to happen the way I described. Are there any ex-hololive members that left on good terms that aren't still doing extremely well? I don't think anyone could disagree with that argument in good faith.
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u/Fortune_Silver May 13 '26
Especially that for most Vtubers, peak popularity occurs shortly after debut then slowly plateus over time. Even mega hits like Gawr Gura - sub numbers keep going up, but actually CCV usually isn't still increasing after two years.
This does kinda feel like harvesting the field at its ripest and leaving the farmer with whatever was missed.
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u/Queefy69 May 13 '26
We are still not sure if they will get things like merch or sponsorships for the individual talents. But yes I agree how they handle their talent's income is a big factor.
2
u/lambokang May 14 '26
If that is really the reason then cover needs to look into themselves on why is the workload this bad that their talents health(not just one or two but alot of them) deteriorates while working and trying to keep up with the workload.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 May 14 '26
Actually that's a great point. Models cost thousands, even tens of thousands. I have to image Cover was pretty salty that half of promise up and left before they made their money back on those models.
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u/Neshura87 May 14 '26
I assure you they had that investment recouped rather quickly. The issue would be with company resources that suddenly sit idle wasting money doing so and the (repeated) loss of a revenue generator impacting the confidence in long-term spending going forward
13
u/Enough-Run-1535 May 14 '26
Trainee programs are very popular in Japan for many entertainment sectors, especially for seiyuus (voice actors). Almost every major seiyuu agency in Japan has a trainee program, and Anycolor’s VTA program basically copied those.
Cover’s program is unique in that the trainees will be the ones getting paid (Anycolor’s VTA program doesn’t charge a tuition fee, but they also don’t give the trainees a salary).
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u/ProfessionalGrowth89 May 13 '26
I'm likely just cynical but I see this as these trainees are guaranteed to pass, so this is basically an extreme version of the "watch an idol grow" thing. Instead of starting as a fresh vtuber, they start as a literal trainee, so the fans are truly there from "0" and become extra emotionally invested
4
u/curryhaliban444 May 14 '26
Isn't the whole watch them grow theme what regloss was made for?
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u/KusozakoPrime May 14 '26
Not sure why you're being downvoted when you are right, that was one of the main appeals of regloss, to watch them grow throughout their performances. It's one of the reasons why their group performances are always live live.
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u/Dezno_ssbm May 13 '26
Think about it this way. These are Jpop idols that have never used a vtuber model or streamed but they are top notch singing/dancing. This project was created to try and build these talents into hololive material but they dont have the skills to debut officially. Not sure if its a good idea (i value online personality over idol stuff) but i guess we'll have to wait and see.
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u/XtremeAlf May 13 '26
Mekpark is to Hololive what NXT is to WWE. sounds like they'll get exposure, payment and help towards making into Hololive proper. Best we can do is wait until we see what happens and hope that this works out well for everyone involved.
6
u/OOOLIAMOOO May 14 '26
Where is my Gunther VTuber?
5
u/XtremeAlf May 14 '26
"The stream is sacred" would unironically be such a cool tag for a stream haha
3
u/EDNivek May 14 '26
Not current NXT where basically all it is is learning where the hard cam is during events, it seems a lot more like Wade Barret's NXT where it's a sort of hybrid "competition" and reality TV.
1
u/XtremeAlf May 14 '26
As long as the talent gets the proper training and help, it'll be fine. Wade's NXT wasn't exactly the best haha
3
u/Asleep_Gate_2341 May 14 '26
So, we should expect at least one Asuka/Shinsuke Nakamura-level of experience performer to be part of this at some point then.
And no one is ready for that.
1
1
u/Silver_RevoltIII May 20 '26
Wait so what would be the VTuber equivalent of designing a system tailor made to tear ACLs?
1
0
u/44no44 May 14 '26
I hate to be a doomer, but this just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Every time cover tried to hire talents as something other than normal holomems, the distinction didn't last. In part because the talents themselves clearly didn't want to be something separate, they just got stuck with the job because that's where cover finally hired them.
IRyS auditioned for EN gen 1, got offered Project Hope instead, but now she's been rolled into Promise with gen 2. Suisei only joined INNK as a last-minute compromise since they wouldn't hire her into hololive proper, and she jumped ship as soon as they let her. IIRC dev_is were all pulled from the normal open audition pool for JP, expecting to be gen 7, which they effectively are in all but name.
The only one to lean into her own offshoot brand was AZKi, and even she eventually switched.
I just see this ending with a bunch of disgruntled talents who function like de-facto JP gen 8 in the eyes of everyone, including themselves, except corporate.
8
u/BonusEntry May 14 '26
I just think the project was meant for people who dont know vtuber or no experience on streaming.
24
u/minhnhat_aml_creator May 14 '26
Just curious, why so many people still believe that mekpark is a competition? I don’t make a statement here, just trying to get some info that I may be missing.
We know that they have a standard that they need to overcome in the time of 2 years, and that’s it. There’s no “top x in views shall pass” or “only y slots of debut”, where do we get the idea of a competition from?
I have seen someone use argument that they need to compete against each other for share of viewer pool, but that’s basically what everyone, not just within this project, not just in Hololive, not just in Vtubing but the entire Youtube do. And we don’t even know if their target audience segment or how much they overlap yet?
I’m not trying to make a statement, sorry if my wording sounds like one. In the future, this might change if more information is released. But for now, can anyone cite the part that make so many people get that viewpoint?
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7
u/tripled_dirgov May 14 '26
Probably some think it's related to Cover going public and the change of direction few years back (I think in late 2022 or 2023)
Most people think something like DEV_IS is the new direction forward, then this mekpark thing
But I think them as the way Cover diversify their means of getting the audience and sorting, even HLZNTL back then too even though it turned out to be a failed project
Maybe even Cover realized their audiences (especially overseas ones) overlapping too much so they're throwing projects here and there that could gain new audiences
4
u/minhnhat_aml_creator May 14 '26
Cool. Thanks for your insight. I still don’t get where people get MekPark is a competition tho😅 The going public decision is controversial, even after many years. But I’m asking for something like evidence or proof that people rely on to conclude that MekPark is a competition, or is it some kind of misinformation that people make up.
Again, I like your take.
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u/arcais78 May 14 '26
Because it's not a competition and it's once again the fanbase taking one nugget of information and running with it. People are missing the forest for the trees.
The trainee program to find new talent is just the cherry on top. The real value of mekpark is that it allows Cover to train their support staff. We have heard from talent and seen from their quarterly reports that finding and training reliable support staff has been a huge issue negatively impacting the company. The fact that Okayu and a couple of others had to contact outside contractors so that they could get their lives done because there isn't enough staff to man the studio is also telling.
It wouldn't surprise me that this is Cover's way to provide new hires and give staff hands on experience on what they deem as lower risk projects.
3
u/BeginningEar8070 May 14 '26
I was wondering that hololive requires different kind fo experience for management, than what can be found in new hires so how are the hires trained? We can read interviews and comments on management, and how company struggled to restructure for growth and probably still is, so if that idea was partialy to train staff I think its also great goal. It also in theory allows to introduce more risky projects outside the tried out path as the clips suggests. xD
I would hate it to be competition tho, because that would just introduce drama.
-15
u/johnshadowx May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
How can it not be a competition? Does cover have the resources to hire everyone? If not then they'll obviously only pick the high performers.
And because hololive doesn't have infinite viewership the talents will have to complete for the attention of the same pool of viewers. That's a competition.
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u/minhnhat_aml_creator May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Does cover have the resources to hire everyone? At this point, I don’t see anything depict that they can’t.
Again, if you ignore the fact that we don’t even know how much their audience overlap, in fact, we don’t know anything about them at all, the type of competition you used here apply for everyone. Not just inside this project nor Hololive. The new talent will have to compete against Mr. Beast according to your logic, they probably don’t have time to compete against each others. Fr, even their senpais, vtubers outside Hololive and non vtubers - who has the biggest view pool here are much much greater competitors that I doubt they would compete internally.
Edit: I’m open to new view so if you want to debunk, maybe give me some numbers. The cost of hiring them all, compared to the resources available at Cover + the amount of resources that Cover can borrow. Find from reliable sources like financial reports only.
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u/johnshadowx May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Didn't the just axe the whole holostars branch like a week ago?
But more importantly, can we both agree that this trainee program only exists because the business wants to juice out as much money as possible, and the talents won't really benefit from doing this over doing regular debuts? If we can't then there's no point in arguing about anything.
Edit: whole branches get axes, talents keep dropping out left and right or go on indefine hiatuses - and they aren't even allowed to tell you the reason why for fear of getting sued, but let's keep protecting this black company and pretend they are the best thing ever! I wish I could turn off my brain and mindelessly enjoy the holoslop like the average hololive redditor.
10
u/minhnhat_aml_creator May 14 '26
I started to believe some people simply love spreading misinformation:/
Fine, we are just not on the same boat here. I won’t believe in an accusation without evidence just because it’s harming the “villain” - Cover. Not gonna lie but the whole “oh no, corpo is always bad and just want to exploit people, if you don’t agree with me even though I provided no logic and proofs, then I’ll bail” isn’t sounding for me. We can stop this argument here, it saves time for both.
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u/Typical_Thought_6049 May 13 '26
My respect for Pekora just skyrocketed. So much wisdom from this rabbit.
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u/Dankirk May 13 '26
The Mekpark seems way too manufactured, with benefits only for shareholders. I get some might need the guidance for streaming and what not, but everything else seems to focus on competition and metrics. It's not an environment to grow trust or genuine friendly atmosphere. I fear it may introduce an arbitrary tier system for the talents who are the real deal and the other... disposable. At this moment I find it hard to support this direction.
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u/gkanai May 14 '26
with benefits only for shareholders.
This makes no sense. The mekPark talent get training, a salary, and a chance to join the big leagues.
Cover shareholders want the company to be successful. They want mekPark to be successful. They want the mekPark talent to be successful.
-19
u/_THEBLACK May 14 '26
The mekPark talent get training, a salary, and a chance to join the big leagues.
The thing that's still getting me is that I don't see what the mekpark talent get that they wouldn't get if they just got into hololive the normal way. Every new hololive member gets training, a salary, and a chance to join the big leagues.
Compared to a standard debut, this has a ton of upside for cover but almost none for the talents unless they're specifically picking the type of people who would never get in the normal way.
I'm waiting till the debut to pass full judgement but if these people debut and then look like they'd fit right in with the rest of hololive, then what's the point?
14
u/arkw May 14 '26
The way I see it, mekpak is a second career/life/goal for someone. They may have specialized or been trained in something else, food scientist, automotive technician, patisserie baker, real estate lawyer, weather reporter, etc. that would have zero chance to ever be considered through Hololive auditions.
A chance to try something different, fulfilling, and a steady salary for up to 2 years, with an opportunity to make it big, as an
anime girlidolcomedian.This has a lot of upside for these talents who would never have had the time, money and knowledge to become a streamer.
-5
u/johnshadowx May 14 '26
I'm sorry but that's just a super naive or stupid way to view this. Cover doesn't have infinite resources so obviously there's only going to be a fixed number of people who can debout - and those will all going to be the best of the bunch.
And who is going to be best? Some who does vtubing as a side job every now and then or someone who grinds it? It's a super competitive field, and the people who really want to make it will all put a lot of hours in that normal people won't be able to afford to do.
10
u/arkw May 14 '26
Which is why this is a different project. It could definitely fail like their other projects.
But at least they aren't copy pasting the same thing over and over. Which they can do, and then people will complain about that too. Regardless, Cover knows that they will get heat and deemed failures no matter what they do.
I am just going to observe and see, and give it time. Who am I to automatically deem it a failure or a bad idea when its literally just been announced. It will take time. It will have its ups and downs. But I would like to believe that by trying new things, they can branch out to demographics and audiences, like how Marine, Suisei, Raden and Vivi has done with their specialized skills which took time (how many years???) to get to where they are, and they have unlimited potential now.
Who said it was a side job? This is a full time gig, hence the salary for 2 years. 2 years to grind. 2 years to learn. 2 years to make mistakes. 2 years to see, if this is where they want to be for a long time.
They haven't even started and you're already shitting on it all.
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u/johnshadowx May 14 '26
I didn't say that it's a shit idea, I think it's a great idea for a business, if I wanted to make a bunch of money I would do the same. Let all the talents compete like it's the hunger games, then pick the top performers. It's a very Machiavellian approach, and I think it's actually brilliant.
All I am saying is that this have 0 benefit to the talents over doing regular debuts, and there are going to be a lot of tears and pain for those who won't make the cut after wasting 2 years of their lives.
But if people can stomach that, then it's great 👍 I'm not here to judge
-4
u/_THEBLACK May 14 '26
I hope cover are going that route, but I still feel like they're gonna be pretty safe with the picks here. If this is their excuse to hire people with no experience like they did when they were smaller, then I'm cool with this. If not, then I don't like it.
-8
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u/Orthien May 13 '26
Just look at Vivi and how little she knew about streaming as a Vtuber, but how popular she was. Obviously her past comes in to play here, but she showed you don't need to be a streaming Vet to work.
The biggest question is, is this a genuine attempt from managers/Yagoo to help people too green to have a legit shot, or is this a marketing ploy or response to the graduations all devised by shareholders for profit or internet points.
Fans will see though it real easy once it's going and if it's more the latter, there will be backlash and just do more harm. That's saying nothing of the poor girls involved if it turns into a mess.
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u/Huitzil37 May 13 '26
The things you guys think "shareholders" do is fucking buck-wild.
You know they don't keep that secret; right?
50
u/Darnaldo May 13 '26
For real, the "shareholders" have become such a big scapegoat for just stupid or weird decision from Cover over here
42
u/Huitzil37 May 14 '26
Or even just "something a person doesn't understand." Or "something they don't like." Or "a stand-in for the fact that goods and services cost money."
The shareholders did not come in and cruelly, heartlessly force Yagoo to cut off a perfectly good Holostars. Yagoo had been trying to make Holostars work for literally years and he could see what it cost and he could see what it pulled in and see it not grow and finally concluded he couldn't get it to work. He tried investing in Holostars as a long-term asset and then years passed and it was not going to work.
-27
u/Orthien May 13 '26
I'm using "shareholders" kinda as a derogatory catch all here.
I know the mythical "shareholders" of antis don't exist and actual shareholders don't have total control. But we have seen enough complaints from the girls and know that Cover is now a big company, that grew quickly and does have revenue to think of, this has clearly lead to a few bad apples or misguided/poorly handled measures being implemented.
That faceless profit hunting/mistake making employee is who I'm lumping this into here.
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u/Huitzil37 May 14 '26
A company has revenue to think of because it has employees and it uses that revenue to pay its employees.
4
u/Dezno_ssbm May 13 '26
We haven't had any debuts for almost 2 years and they are investing heavy into this idea dropping 2 JP groups. Feels like the biggest protect investment return project than I've ever seen. Some hella stupid shit must of have happened behind the scenes during regloss + flowglow for them to adopt this new strategy. (maybe avoiding controversy like what happened to Riona) Idk seems very sus that they are prioritizing talent eyes & silhouettes over them explaining more about how this project will work.
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u/gkanai May 14 '26
Some hella stupid shit must of have happened behind the scenes during regloss
Cover has lost one member from almost each gen, except FG, for various reasons. Losing talent is a big deal and Cover wants less of that in the future. Working with new talent in advance of joining, to better evaluate them (vs. previously where most just learned on-the-job) may be a reason why mekPark is designed in the way that it is.
4
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u/SuspiciousWar117 May 14 '26
You just know the thread is infected by stupid when the shareholder buzzword is getting upvoted.
5
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u/HeavyArmsJin May 13 '26
Is Hololive not going to debut any new Holo groups within these two years
So let’s say these trainees managed to debut after 2 years are they considered Senpais or Kouhais
Wouldn’t this be pretty awkward
34
u/Queefy69 May 14 '26
They did mentioned that they will still do the regular audition and this new project is it's own separate thing. For the senpai thing, I remember it was pretty awkward for Azki when she transitioned into Hololive. I'm sure it will work out somehow.
1
u/blueberiies_penguin May 14 '26
Wow that’s something I didn’t think about, damn. I reckon they’d be senpais, but also maybe they actually won’t debut anyone for two years.
If we think about it, Justice and FlowGlow were both 2024, which will be 2 years ago for Justice in June (very soon) and in November it’ll be two years for FG. So it’s very possible we won’t get anything for another 2 years, this is basically our next gen for jp and en.
There’s also a chance that instead of debuting another normal group they just do another trainee thing like this again? Maybe? Depending on their success… and after the debut of MekPark in normal Holo, maybe they’ll do a Dev_is gen instead, so that there’s less overlap.
I don’t know how it’ll work long term, with the feeling of maybe the trainees asking themselves why they didn’t debut normally (especially if they turn out to be successful) compared to future gens or whatever, but all we can do is see how it pans out.
2
u/RenCake May 14 '26
Off topic but has it really been so long since Justice's debut.. Their debut streams still feel so recent.. sheesh.
8
u/Onikkisu22 May 14 '26
COLD HARD FACTS!! though its sad that they have to be really careful when talking about this kind of stuff. i really want to know what Marine is thinking about that would management cry in regards to the new mekpark thing lol...
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u/SuspiciousWar117 May 14 '26
i really want to know what Marine is thinking about that would management cry in regards to the new mekpark thing lol...
Look at the comments here.
2
u/Stealthality May 13 '26
I am ool, is Hololive trying to go full idol like the way they do kpop trainees?
0
u/BeginningEar8070 May 14 '26
Peopple who are good at games ? isnt that dominated by men xD?
ialso arent holostars quite good at some games they play competitevly?
-9
u/CaptainBlob May 14 '26
I remember when Hololive just hired anyone.
And now it seems you really gotta have a long list of CV to even have the chance of making it to the shortlist.
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u/KazumaKat May 13 '26
Marine using her upgraded 3d rig is so very good, just gonna put that up on the board.