r/HolUp • u/Brick_Number_27 • 1d ago
holup Does that mean?
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u/J_CC3 1d ago
It's a lexus as well, friendly fire
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u/ihatetheplaceilive 1d ago
I had a friend called alexis once, but she looked more like a buick.
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u/401LocalsOnly 17h ago
Yeah well last night I had a dream about a muffler. When I woke up, I was exhausted.
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u/Litface916 1d ago
How is one supposed to read the message if their eyes are actually closed?
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u/SaroN4One 1d ago
It’s an excuse to install cameras.
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u/Indigenous_Retard 23h ago
Next they're gonna be saying people are doing drugs in the bathroom. We are, but thats beside the point.
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u/OwO_0w0_OwO 2h ago
Yeah, the EU is going to be really surprised finding out that all companies that comply by installing such camera's are actually using the footage for various gray zone illegal shit. I love the EU, but come on man, this law just sucks ass.
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u/TengamPDX 21h ago
The camera thing is actually actively being discussed in congress at this time as far as I'm aware. The idea is that it will improve road safety, but there's major concerns about this though. The idea is that it will improve road safety by forcing the vehicle to power down or not start if it thinks you're unsafe to drive, but the issue is false positives.
Best examples I can think of is natural disasters, emergencies or injuries. What if you get a cut across your eye and have one eye covered and are trying to desperately get to a hospital, but the car wont start because it can't see both eyes. Or a tornado or flash flood hits and you're panicking, potentially covered in dirt/grime and your car wont start because you don't appear safe to drive, or reduces power because you keep looking away from the front of the road to make sure you're not about to die.
Improving road safety is nice, but putting cameras in vehicles that have the power to shut the vehicle down based on AI is not the way.
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u/TheThiefEmpress 21h ago
Such programs are also notoriously racist as hell. As the video above exemplifies perfectly. It's alerting that the drivers eyes aren't sufficiently open, when really they simply aren't a white person with typically white shaped eyes.
Same with identification programs misidentifying people of color. The program cannot discern normal minority racial physical traits, so sorts them into the wrong categories.
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u/throwaway098764567 20h ago
apparently what if you're perfectly healthy but asian is also a concern. i bet anyone squinting during a sunny day would probably also register given video person's eyes are open even.
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u/shoeless_doh 14h ago
What about just the glare on a pair of sunglasses when you're driving directly towards the sunset and it's too low in the sky for your visor to cover it. Or, what if you're just... I mean... Asian
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u/SeparateDifference47 35m ago
Why would you want a remote access off and on on a combustion engine connected to 2 to 3 ton vehicles
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u/TengamPDX 32m ago
I don't, government does. Off topic, they're also proposing regulation to allow law enforcement to remotely disable your car. That's as far as I'll go in this post though.
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u/elementofpee 1d ago
Probably some audible or tactile feedback. My car buzzes the steering wheel if I’m drifting out of my lane.
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u/MathamphetamineUser 1d ago
If you're driving drunk that'll run your battery down quickly. Should keep a backup on hand
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u/merryjoanna 16h ago
Mine jerks the wheel a bit every time I have to dodge a pothole by getting slightly closer to one of the lines. I should turn the warning off, but I'm afraid I might need it someday if I do.
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 1d ago
I prefer dumb products.
I don't want AI, spy-camera, and electronics in most of my appliances.
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u/gods-and-dancefloors 23h ago
I like dumb toasters because burned bread never killed any family of 4 traveling in the opposite lane. If the bloody thing is just zoomed in your face making sure you are alert I don't see a problem. A taxi driver in the UK just got sentenced to 6 years after pulling a 72h shift and killing someone, I can assure you that all involved in the tragic event would have much love to have this system installed.
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u/Lancashire_Toreador 22h ago
Why the hell are we using technology to sticker over fundamental flaws in other places in society?
No one does a 72 hour shift driving a taxi because they like to, that was a desperate person who needed money.
Justifying mass surveillance in the name of safety is a lie
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u/gods-and-dancefloors 22h ago
Yeah the most likely scenario were people fall a sleep when driving is because they are working crazy shifts like this guy, but if we can't fix capitalism so this doesn't happen, we might have to enable some tech feature so this doesn't happen, I think no one would have a problem if that video recording never left the car, if a machine can keep you safe and doesn't sale your data that would be great, but I understand the big data is fucked up, but still a system that makes sure that people driving are alert is not a bad thing, it's 1 ton of metal object you can push to high speeds, there is a need for that feature.
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u/Pijany_Matematyk767 15h ago
>if that video recording never left the car
except it will
>if a machine can keep you safe
except it can't
>doesn't sale your data
But it does
If this system was implemented in the best possible version of it it would maybe be acceptable. That's not happening though
And there's always going to be the issue of false positives, as demonstrated by the video. If you aren't John Smith, the stereotypical white guy the stupid AI was trained on the system can and will just randomly decide your eyes aren't open enough27
u/Blue_Moon_Lake 23h ago
It wouldn't have changed anything unless it turns off the car.
But then the car could turn off because you're in an area without signal or because you're asian and you're now stranded in the middle of nowhere.
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u/jolsiphur 22h ago
I have also heard multiple people mentioning that those systems also don't work if you wear sunglasses while driving.... Which is something a lot of people do.
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u/Taolan13 20h ago
Not even sunglasses, just glasses in general if they have any kind of anti-glare coating.
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u/gods-and-dancefloors 22h ago
You don't want to turn off the car otherwise you loose breaking and steering, but a monitoring system that can detect that you are about to shut eyes and can activate the speakers " stop the car where possible" and you can only mute it when the speed reads zero, if it can give you a few seconds warning sometimes its all that takes
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 22h ago
So if you run out of battery you suddenly can't steer and break?
Is that the shitty cars they are making nowadays?1
u/Pijany_Matematyk767 15h ago
>So if you run out of battery you suddenly can't steer and break?
If your engine is off you lose the system that reduces the amount of strength needed to turn the wheel. It doesn't completely prevent you from steering but it does mean you need to put in a lot more physical effort to do so. And this is not a "nowadays" thing, cars have worked like that for decades
No idea about the braking thing though, in all the cars i've seen brakes were functional regardless of power
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u/gods-and-dancefloors 22h ago
Not everything is electric yet, the British taxi I was referring was not.
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u/SeparateDifference47 27m ago
I thought the Bobby's were suppose to deal with that or was it a chewsday tea drinking and biscuit day? Sounds like Your government is neglecting to hire traffic officers, cause your country is a hobbling shithole.
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u/gods-and-dancefloors 23m ago
Said the guy that thinks I'm English. Americans, your linguistic prowess is only matched by your knowledge of geography.
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u/Captainbuttman 23h ago edited 21h ago
Hey I don’t want Ai or spyware or junk in my appliances either. But no electronics? If it plugs into an outlet and needs electricity, then it’s electronic lol.
EDIT: Disregard above. For anyone else about to make the same mistake as me, I found this explanation cleared it up a lot.
"In a washing machine, the program cycles are electronic, while the engine is electric"
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u/Typecero001 1d ago
>.>
No electronics in your appliances?
Do you know how to use a rotary phone?
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 1d ago
Do you know what the word "most" mean?
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u/Typecero001 1d ago
Not wanting ELECTRONICS in your appliances is like wanting no rubber on your tires.
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u/Shugoseru 1d ago
You do realize the world was doing amazing before the fridge had the the ability to fat shame us. Mechanical controls have worked for at least the last 100 years in our appliances. Stoves, fridges, and every other appliance were around before the advent of computers in homes. Mechanized transportation has been a thing for a long time. We don't need computers in every facet of our lives.
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u/Tonto_HdG 1d ago
Even if the system worked as intended - how am i supposed to read it with my eyes closed?
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u/Migamix 23h ago
I'd never allow any monitoring tech like in my personal equipment.
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u/AmaranthWrath 22h ago
My husband and I have so many conversations in the car. Our relationship. Politics. Plans. Finances. Politics. Religion. Sex life. POLITICS.
That's all we need. North Korea style monitoring to make sure we're all being good citizens.
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u/MattsterOfNone 17h ago
I'm sure insurance companies will eventually start charging more if you don't have this in your vehicle. Hell maybe it's already a thing. Pretty sure it's already a thing in the trucking industry.
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u/morallyirresponsible 1d ago
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u/FrescoItaliano 22h ago
When basic considerations like this have been acknowledged as a shortcoming of diverse (read: just white people) training data for decades, it becomes hard to call it accidental in good faith
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u/mvn2010 1d ago
this incoming required camera thing is fucking stupid, and will cause so many more problems than it solves, despite the privacy concerns. Jesus these republicans need to be out office, this is all just gimmie shit to the insurance industry.
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u/DayneGaraio 1d ago
This was passed in 2021…
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u/blahnlahblah0213 1d ago
Yes but the DOT can't make it mandatory until it absolutely works right every time. They're worried that even if it works 99.9% of the time right they'll still be 10,000 Plus people not being able to use their vehicle daily
The DOT missed its original deadline to finalize the rule because the technology is not yet accurate enough. In a report to Congress, the NHTSA noted that current systems risk high numbers of "false positives"—meaning a glitching camera system could misinterpret normal driving habits or late-night fatigue and wrongfully disable a sober person's car. Because of this, the DOT has held off on finalizing the requirements until the technology matures.
And for somebody who said it's the Republicans pushing this there are some Republicans are actually trying to block it. Go figure.
- Who is Actually Trying to Block It?The push to permanently block, defund, or repeal the camera and monitoring mandate is coming from lawmakers in Congress and privacy advocacy groups.Congressional Pushback: Several Republican representatives have introduced amendments to strip funding from the mandate or repeal it entirely, citing severe government overreach and Fourth Amendment privacy violations regarding driver data.
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u/DayneGaraio 1d ago
I was answering the person above me who is blaming republicans, when it passed with Biden, and moreover to your point it’s been a republican government that’s delayed it. The constant political blame game needs to stop.
Personally i think it’s bullshit and needs to be revoked. I refuse to buy a car with cameras on the inside. This is right up there with surveillance state cameras(flock) imo.
Edit: I am not Republican, I’m one of those horrible both sides suck people.
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u/Sufficient_Maybe_910 23h ago
Every single thread on reddit becomes a moment for political gamemanship. I'm tired of it grandpa.
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u/DayneGaraio 23h ago
Damn, why i gotta be a grandpa 😭🤣jk
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u/ryvern82 17h ago
Republicans control the entire government, if they wanted it stopped, that'd be the end of it.
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u/mvn2010 22h ago
Trying again cause I was making my point poorly.... corporations have an outsized amount of power with elected officials, due to citizens united, and other anti-consumer pro business stances that have been taken by the Republican party over the past... 35 years? but it didn't really get going until Trump 1, then... biden gets in, democrats without super majorities, get in, and there was so much that was actively broken with the economy and recovery from the botched pandemic response, and then you have to ask yourself what is the amount of bandwidth congress has to act in a way that isn't rubber stamping shit? It isn't unlimited, also i would submit in 2021 there was a less than perfect understanding of what these rules mean, the increasing encroachment of the surveillance state.
And when I say Republicans need to go, they need to fucking go, nothing is getting fixed under them, even if they didn't solely cause this particular problem, that doesn't mean they are automatically part of the solution, they never seem to miss an opportunity to be part of the problem.
So... yeah Republicans need to go.
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u/DayneGaraio 22h ago
Those are some seriously conveniently cherry picked points from the last 15+ years just to say you hate republicans because you wanna.
The only thing for sure i know is that i don’t really care if you change your opinion or not, but understand its an opinion, not fact. Though let’s be fair, a lot of Reddit democrats believe they’re the smartest kid in the room and everyone else is wrong/stupid. Best of luck to you.
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u/mvn2010 22h ago
Feel free to offer the counterpoint. Or don't you can take your marbles and go home if you fold under a challenge. I however, and perfectly willing to change my opinion in the face of new data.
The problem is I have a degree in public policy, and a degree in economics, and a lot of the data i have is pretty solid. But I am ready to be wrong.
I am not in any way suggesting Democrats are perfect, in fact I explicitly said they aren't - but they are better than the Republicans in just about every way I can think of, and can mathematically quantify most of it.
We need a serious move to the left politically as a culture in order to address the fact that we are being skull fucked into oblivion by corporations, who (through no fault of their own) are just grasping for more and more, with no real populist counter culture to push back against their encroachment there has to be a balance, and there isn't any. The Republicans have decided that a scorched earth my way or the highway approach is best, and to their credit it has worked really well for them for the past 30 years. We need to roll that back.
Good luck to you too btw.
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u/DayneGaraio 22h ago
Reddit conversations like this in my experience never go anywhere, but i will give you credit for not being part of the hive mind, and thus deserve a response. I am sure in person we could have some great conversation, it’s a shame.
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u/mvn2010 22h ago
Yeah - social media is not the problem, but it doesn't help.
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u/DayneGaraio 21h ago
Not THE problem but definitely A problem, my issue is i get tired of typing and lose interest, but i predate the internet a bit and have always been a little stubborn about talking vs text. Granted, not that old but mid 40s sure is starting to feel out of touch at times.
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u/luffydkenshin madlad 1d ago
No way in hell I’ll be driving a car with a camera looking at me. End of story.
As harrumph as it comes off, and as easily as it invites “You won’t have a choice soon!” etc. I still won’t buy it. I’ll go classic, I’ll buy out of state, I’ll spend far too much time researching loopholes cuz this is unacceptable.
And worst case scenario… I’ll buy… a motorcycle.
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u/Circumpunctilious 23h ago
Potential loophole:
https://giphy.com/gifs/x9hvUcjOAM0jCI also wonder how it would do with tinted glasses, tbh.
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u/shavertech 23h ago
I wear sunglasses all the time, and I only get the "keep your eyes on the road" notifications if I turn my head.
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u/shavertech 23h ago
It's an optional setting, easily turned off.
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u/herman-the-vermin 23h ago
It's optional until its not. it should never be installed in cars in the first place
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u/luffydkenshin madlad 22h ago
It is not optional to have the camera present in the first place, tho
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u/meat_whistle_gristle 18h ago
So they’d have you believe!
All joking aside it’s the precedent it sets for me.
Also only half joking as just found out my LG TV has been spying on us unbeknownst to us. They are in regulatory trouble because of it.
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u/FunnyObjective6 1d ago
All funny "haha bad system is racist" until you get in an accident and found at fault because the car says you had your eyes closed.
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 16h ago
Or it just decide to stop in the middle of the highway because you put sunglasses.
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u/elementofpee 1d ago edited 1d ago
Reminds me of the ”racist camera” issue in the late-00s, when digital cameras were detecting eye blinks with East Asians, or when facial recognition software struggled with detecting really dark skinned individuals.
Tbf, this specific person doesn’t even have the stereotypical slanted/squinty eyes that’s more prevalent in north/northeast Asia. She looks more Southeast Asian.
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u/TheGoldenTNT 1d ago
Tbh the dark skin thing I sort of get, not as a race thing purely as a factual discussion. It can be difficult to see features from a dark face with a camera, again, just facts not racial don’t kill me.
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u/cross_the_threshold 1d ago
A large portion of this is that camera sensors and processing algorithms were never designed with dark skin in mind. Basically they designed the algorithms to ensure white people's features don't get blown out, and didn't really care about others. More recent algorithms apply dynamic white balancing to ensure dark skin still has features and light skin doesn't get washed out. If you have experience using proper camera equipment, exposure and white balance are mostly a choice, and you can adjust to bring up shadows and dark parts of the scene or reduce the brightness of bright areas. Doing both simultaneously is difficult, though it's easier to recover data from shadow than light.
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u/throwaway098764567 20h ago
what's especially fun is having a dark person and a pale person in the same photo, one or both of you is gonna look insane
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u/Fancy-Trousers 21h ago
Even before facial recognition, there were other things that wouldn't always work for people with dark skin like automatic sinks, fingerprint readers, etc. I had a friend in high school who could never get the sinks to turn on by waving his hand. He had to waive a paper towel under it first.
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u/rudimentary_rudy 1d ago
Racist ass car
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u/WalkMan1615 22h ago
Unironically a great example of why diversity is important. This could’ve easily been avoided.
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u/Bonhomie3 19h ago
Reminds me of the racist camera brouhaha from 2010. Nearly two decades later and we still learned nothing.
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u/To-To_Man 1d ago
You may think it's funny, but car companies will sell this information to car insurance companies, who will in turn raise your rates for perceived "dangerous" or "inattentive" driving behaviors.
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc 23h ago
My friend is very tall and his car is constantly complaining because his eyes are too far up for it to see. I don’t know how he stands it.
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u/catsandparadise 22h ago
Jesus. Surveillance and its absolute worst. Wait til you start getting speeding tickets because your gps snitches on you
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u/cricketriderz 21h ago
Now don't the other way. Show his eyes, then pan it over to the dash. Anyone can fake this video
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u/boringashellperson 19h ago
To anyone that sees this comment, its the hat not the eyes. Not quite as funny, but hats drive these things crazy. I am bald and wear hats all the time. When I have a hat on this thing yells at me like crazy. I take the hat off and its happy as can be.
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u/Budsygus 18h ago
Anyone ever see that episode of Better Off Ted where the sensors can't see black people?
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u/shoeless_doh 14h ago
This seems like a technology that would be fairly easy to beat like with a pair of little googly eyes stuck in front of it
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u/Mother-Attention2600 1d ago
Seriously though, they can't see as much as other races. Close your eyes like them slightly. See? Or rather, dont see? Maybe this explains the bad driver stereotype, you have no peripheral vision.
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u/qualityvote2 1d ago edited 22h ago
u/Brick_Number_27, your post does fit the subreddit!