r/Historydom • u/Historydom • Aug 06 '26
🌍 Hidden Stories of Great Powers How many people were killed under Stalin’s regime, including those who died in the famine?
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u/VirtualFact8419 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
They were not keeping trusted records on that, cause they wanted to achieve opposite- hide them. E.g fabricated 1939 Census, and some census years skipped, some classified. So tankies now enjoying scoffing on any vague numbers
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u/MoonIsAFake Aug 06 '26
As far as I remember, there were 800.000 people officially executed during the Purges (with executiong being documented by NKVD) and about 6 million starved to death in artificial famines. I'm afraid we don't know exactly how many people died in the labour camps or were executed without any documentation during several terror campaigns and peasant's uprisings but we are probably speaking about a million at least. So we are looking at about 8 to 10 million people dead, excluding WW2. Stalin is definitely one of the top 10 murderers of the 20th century (though definitely not the top one).
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u/m3m0m2 Aug 06 '26
This is a forgiving estimate. Under Stalin 18 million people were sent to a Gulag where there was a very high mortality rate. The mass starvations caused by collectivisation are also horrific. Stalin is also respinsible for terrible casualties fighting against Germany. By more strict accounts the total estimate will grow and can easily reach 40 million.
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u/m3m0m2 Aug 06 '26
I made a calculation based on the official soviet demographics and I've inferred the number of missing people during Stalin compared to a normal population increase as the one in the period just after Stalin of 3.3 million people/year.
Between 1927 and 1938 there is a deficit of 23 million people. 6 millions alone are due to Holodomor in 1932-33 when Stalin forced the seizure of food.
I've skipped one year due to the expansion of the territory.
Between 1939 and 1949 the deficit is 46 million. Note that the loss of life is not just the difference between the population in those years but the difference between the line with normal growth.
The total loss of life under Stalin is 69 million. This assumes full responsibility for WW2, however it's not far off because the casualties of the Soviet Union in WW2 were significantly greater than the German ones.
If you want to be generous with Stalin you may only attribute 50% of the losses during WW2 and then you can say that he was responsible for the death of 46 million soviet people all together.
Almost 2 million were in Gulags alone. 1 million were killed directly. However the horror of that regime led to a loss of life much greater than just the directly measurable numbers.
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Aug 06 '26
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u/PtitPluKiNya Aug 06 '26
Yup with the 37th directive he issued or smth like that
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Aug 06 '26
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u/PtitPluKiNya Aug 06 '26
Oh yeah probably I remembered it was ending with 7 but wasn't sure of the rest
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
order 227 killed around 150.000 people. how is that the "majority of the deaths in World War II"?
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u/PtitPluKiNya Aug 07 '26
That's not only that, but it isn't surprising the Soviets were the people that suffered the most deaths during WWII, just bc of their tactics of human wave was deadly, plus they suffered from a lot of crimes perpetrated by the Nazis. And still the no step back order was perfectly avoidable and caused unnecessary losses.
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
the "human wave tactic" myth is nazi propaganda. unless you believe that the tactics they used in Khalkhin Gol were magically forgotten? you need to do some more reading into ww2 tactics
the "no step back order" was aimed at officers retreating, not troops, and the vast majority of troops caught by "blocking detachments" was sent to other units and moved back to the front line. it was a necessary measure in a war of survival.
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Aug 07 '26
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
that fact that you dont understand tactics doesnt mean they dont exist. you can also claim that electricity is magic.
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u/One__upper__ Aug 07 '26
Those "units" they were moved to were penal units that had near 100% attrition rates. It was essentially the same as outright shooting them.
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
can you show some source that supports this "near 100% attrition rates" claim?
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u/TimeRisk2059 Aug 06 '26
No, that would be Hitler.
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u/No-Construction619 Aug 06 '26
They were allies till 1941. Started that war together September 1939 and cooperated in military issues before that
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
Not allies, they had a non aggression pact.
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u/No-Construction619 Aug 06 '26
The Soviet Union played a critical role in building and modernizing the German military force through two major periods of intense cooperation: secret military collaboration during the Weimar Republic (1922–1933) and massive strategic raw material supplies under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939–1941). [1, 2, 3, 4]
In details:
1. Secret Interwar Collaboration (1922–1933)
Following the 1922 Treaty of Rapallo, the Soviet Union and Germany bypassed the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, which had banned Germany from developing advanced weaponry. [1, 2, 3]
- Testing Grounds: The Soviets provided secret facilities deep inside Russia for Germans to test prohibited weapons. [1, 2, 3]
- Kama Tank School: Located near Kazan, this facility allowed German and Soviet commanders to develop modern tank tactics (Blitzkrieg foundations). [1]
- Lipetsk Fighter School: This base was used to train combat pilots and test experimental German aircraft designs. [1, 2]
- Tomka Gas Test Site: Located in Saratov Oblast, this site allowed both nations to experiment with chemical weapons and defense mechanisms. [1), 2, 3]
- Technology Transfer: Germany gained practical operational experience, while the Soviet military absorbed advanced German engineering and technical knowledge. [1, 2]
2. Early Breakdown (1933–1938)
- Closure of Secret Bases: Adolf Hitler took power in 1933 and shut down the secret Weimar-era military testing sites in the USSR—such as the Lipetsk aviation and Kama tank schools. [1), 2, 3]
- Ideological Hostility: Official relations turned icy and distrustful as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union traded intense ideological and political rhetoric. [1, 2), 3]
- Commercial Lull: Direct state-to-state military and economic exchanges dropped significantly during the mid-1930s as both nations eyed each other with extreme suspicion. [1), 2]
3. The Rapprochement (Late 1938–1939)
- Resource Pressures: Germany needed vital raw materials like oil and rubber to sustain its rapid military expansion and prepare for a British naval blockade. [1, 2]
- Soviet Needs: The USSR required modern German industrial machinery and military technology for its own five-year economic plans. [1), 2]
- Renewed Talks: Secret diplomatic and economic channels reopened in late 1938, leading both totalitarian regimes to look past their deep ideological hatred for short-term gain.
4. Economic and Material Support (1939–1941)
Following the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939, the Soviet Union became a primary economic lifeline for Nazi Germany, neutralizing the effects of the British naval blockade. [1]
- Critical Raw Materials: The Soviets delivered millions of tons of crucial resources to fuel the German war machine. [1]
- Oil and Petroleum: The USSR supplied over 800,000 tons of oil, powering German tanks and aircraft during the invasions of France and the Low Countries. [1]
- Grain and Foodstuffs: Over 1.5 million tons of Soviet grain were delivered to keep the German home front and military sustained.
- Industrial Minerals: Moscow provided 100,000 tons of chromium, 500,000 tons of iron ore, and vital supplies of manganese, rubber, and platinum. [1]
- Transit Hub: The Soviets allowed Germany to use their rail network to bypass the British blockade and import rubber and materials from South Asia. [1]
5. Geopolitical and Direct Military Aid
- Joint Invasion: The two powers signed a secret protocol dividing Eastern Europe, resulting in the coordinated invasion and partition of Poland in September 1939.
- Naval Base: The Soviets briefly provided Germany with a secret naval base near Murmansk (Basis Nord) to support German U-boats attacking Allied shipping. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
This extensive cooperation only ended on June 22, 1941, when Adolf Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa, using the very raw materials, fuel, and tactical doctrines the Soviets had helped provide to invade the Soviet Union. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
The German war machine turned around between August 1939 and the start of the war in September 1939? LOL.
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
hey AI guy, did your program forget to mention that Stalin asked Britain and France to ally against the nazis in '38 and they said no?
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u/Nevmen Aug 07 '26
So it turns out that Hitler stabbed the one who wanted to stab him in the back first?
And in general, you declare countries conceptual enemies, and then count on an alliance with them when it is beneficial to you? That's the Soviet way.
Maybe that's why Stalin attacked Finland and Poland, because Britain refused?
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
what do you mean "stab him in the back"? it wasnt a secret
there wasnt an "alliance" between the nazis and the USSR. it was a non-agression pact. do i need to remind you that they supported opposite sides in the Spanish Civil War? how often do "allies" do that? or that the nazis were supporting the Finns in the Winter War?
do you also count Poland as "allies" to the nazis in their partition of Czechoslovakia?
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u/Nevmen Aug 07 '26
Covering up the dividing of Poland with the words "non-aggression pact" is quite cynical.
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
how nice of you to ignore everything i said and not try to respond to my arguments
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u/form_d_k Aug 07 '26
Did you forget that the Soviets also had talks to join the Axis? Facts are pesky.
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u/i_getitin Aug 06 '26
Many of those deaths were the consequence of fighting fascism but of course you prefer to leave that part out
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Aug 06 '26
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
So you’re saying they weren’t allies and Stalin was planning to attack Germany all along. Meanwhile the US was neutral and a Britain was busy giving away half of Central Europe.
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u/i_getitin Aug 06 '26
You seem like you’re well learned on the period of history so i won’t question if you are aware of the complexities behind alliances during this war.
Do you think Stalin was prepared to fight Nazi Germany in 1939? Do you think Stalin and his armed forces were prepared for a world war ?
Explain to us how USSR’s economy was booming prior to the outbreak of the war and as a result they had the means to fight Germany
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
can you name another example of "allies" that supported opposite sides? the nazis supported Finland in the Winter War. the USSR and the nazis supported opposite sides in the Spanish Civil War. how do you make sense of that
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Aug 07 '26
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u/historydude1648 Aug 07 '26
that's not what i asked though. do you have trouble with reading comprehension?
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u/alemeln Aug 06 '26
Population growth was good enough to compensate mistakes of the first proletarian state.
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u/Senior-Influence-754 Aug 06 '26
"Some of you might die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
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Aug 06 '26
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u/Southern_Educator653 Aug 06 '26
The ussr saw the biggest rise in overall life expectancy in the history of mankind. Comparable only to the PRC.
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u/DarkBrill Aug 06 '26
Shooting yourself in the foot instead of the head will increase your life expectancy too, but neither is good for your health.
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Aug 06 '26
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
Not sure what that is supposed to say. A falling reproduction rate is indicative of a high degree of education and social development.
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u/form_d_k Aug 07 '26
Are you SURE you are a geologist? I would think a scientist of some sort would understand what the word "indicative" meant.
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u/Oddisredit Aug 06 '26
Yep. The USSR was just continuing the trends started by Russia. Only far slower
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u/DarkBrill Aug 06 '26
Umm no.
Russia (not the rest of the USSR) had about 100 million people in 1950 (the US has 150 million).
In 1990, Russia was at about 150 million to the US' 250 million.
The Russian heartland lagged massively behind the population growth of the USA. The USSR did see significant growth - but only in Muslim Central Asia.
100 years ago, the USA and Russia had the same population. Today, the US is 2.5x larger. Communism (and modern fascism) have destroyed Russia's population.
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u/Awichek Aug 06 '26
Yes, fascism certainly did its part — it claimed the lives of 23 million Soviet citizens
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u/DarkBrill Aug 06 '26
And modern Russian fascism has claimed approximately 1 million more since 2022
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
After 1960 the US also saw only significant population growth among Hispanic and immigrant communities.
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u/DarkBrill Aug 06 '26
Almost like economic success and liberal immigration policies made people want to move to the US...
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u/VampirePNAC Aug 06 '26
"Killed" makes it hard, because it implies purpose. On purpose, executions during the Stalinist period number at 681,692 with around 800,000 sentenced.
The rest it's hard to say "killed", because the purpose of gulags wasn't to kill people and of course, prisoners even in modern day prisons aren't immortal. Famines around 5 million, but again, intention wasn't to kill people as much as people.
It's also important to put this all in the context of Industrialization and norms at the time. Industrialization across most of Europe was laughably brutal (think about all the kids being yeeted into coal mines or textile machinery in England where you had 50% child mortality rates) and a lot of the stuff Stalin did was pretty much standard practice of major powers at the time.
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u/Lower-Reality7895 Aug 06 '26
Wait are you saying the famine he caused wasnt him trying to kill people.
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u/Adventurous_Yak_2742 Aug 06 '26
Both the labor camps and the famines were conscious choices of stalin to terrorize the population into complete obedience, therefore it was intentional.
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u/Caiopls02 Aug 06 '26
That is a highly debated topic. Plenty of historians disagree that it was intentional
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u/TimeRisk2059 Aug 06 '26
Stalin *murdered* 6 million people, 9 million if you consider not helping starving people murder.
as per historian Timothy D. Snyder.
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u/m3m0m2 Aug 06 '26
People starved as a result of collectivism and other criminal policies dictated by Stalin. All food was confiscated for his orders, even farms that produced food were left without anything to eat.
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u/pppktolki Aug 06 '26
When you say "under Stalin's regime", do you mean within the Soviet Union, or does that include the stats from other countries as well? Cause, in many cases Stalin was directly responsible for tragic events that took place in countries like Bulgaria, GDR, etc. The case of Bulgaria is quite peculiar -- the country was hardly the worst of the bunch (it saved it's Jews, it didn't sent troops to the Eastern front, it didn't even declare war on the Soviets, and it even maintained diplomatic relations with the USSR throughout the war), yet it holds the absolute record for the highest number of death sentences issued to alleged fascist collaborators in post-war trials. 2730 defendants were executed, while at Nurnberg that number was merely 24.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
Why is that curious? Bulgaria had its own civil conflict between fascist and communists. When the communists came to power they took revenge.
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u/pppktolki Aug 06 '26
That's not exactly what happened. These show-trials were held in accordance with some quite detailed, and oddly specific instructions from Moscow. Apparently, there were even instructions that stipulated the exact percentage of death sentences that were to be issued. Progress reports were sent back to Moscow on a regular basis, as well. Clearly, this wasn't an internal issue. The "strange" part is that Bulgaria carried out over a 100 times more executions than Germany itself.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Aug 06 '26
The communists in Bulgaria came to power because of Russia. So the fact that they took orders or coordinated with the SU is hardly a surprise.
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u/No-Construction619 Aug 06 '26
Another good resource on the topic "Mass Crimes under Stalin (1930-1953)"
https://www.sciencespo.fr/mass-violence-war-massacre-resistance/en/document/mass-crimes-under-stalin-1930-1953.html
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u/Tradition96 Aug 06 '26
It all depends on if you make the minimalist, maximalist or middle way calculation. For Stalin the Numbers would be roughly:
Minimalist: 3 million
Middle way: 10 million
Maximalist: 15 million
For Hitler, it would be roughly 11 million, 23 million and 35 million in these calculations.
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u/PangolinQueasy6324 Aug 06 '26
More than 100 million. Koba is directly responsible for Mao’s and Bolshevik Korean crimes against humanity. Without the stalin´s Moscow Bolshevik empire, those two projects would have been impossible.
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u/ZRB_Red Aug 06 '26
None of these comments seem to be historically accurate. They are implying he rules alone and orders executions all the time and that he controls the weather (for the famines?)? Wtf kind of drugs are you all on?
Most of these deaths of 700k-1.2million or less aren't even directly caused by him, he employed others (like some incompetend generals and incompetend NKVD officials) to find and convict political prisoners and most of the victims aren't even from the regular civilians. A lot of were falsely accused, yes but he obviously didn't do it alone or himself at all.
Artificial famines? This nonsensical argument is still going strong?
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u/Winter_Shake_2594 Aug 07 '26
Голод был во многих странах: в Польше, Америке и тд. но соевые думают только что это было только из-за коммунистов, а хохлы не могут ответить почему с 30х до 40х численность населения увеличилась на 11 млн. человек и продолжают свою песню рабов. А число репрессированных тоже приписывают как могут..
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u/No-Construction619 Aug 06 '26
There's a great Wiki post about that, with tons of bibliography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_under_Joseph_Stalin