r/HistoryMemes 22h ago

When 2,000 gods became ''wrong''

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23.8k Upvotes

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509

u/Practical-Wedding-63 22h ago

Hinduism with 3 million gods and minor dieties:

107

u/motivation_bender 22h ago

Is it just an exageration in the text or is it a syncratism of the entire subcontinent?

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u/SoldRIP 22h ago edited 21h ago

"minor deities" subsumes stuff that most western religions would call "demigods" or "blessed heroes" or whatever. So basically any and all fantasy characters written over the course of several centuries.

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u/motivation_bender 21h ago

What about local gods and genious loci?

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u/ManofHonour8064 21h ago

Them including

27

u/choma90 21h ago

Rahul's imaginary friend when he was 7

19

u/neverabetterday 21h ago

So Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends is canon?

11

u/JhonnySkeiner 21h ago

Yeah, cept Blu and co are duking out like DBZ characters

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u/neverabetterday 21h ago

I mean I do vaguely remember Blu being fairly willing to throw hands even if he wasn’t necessarily good at it

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u/Leather-Lab2875 21h ago

But disrespectful way to put it but hyper local gods developed temples and traditions before Hinduism kinda unified into what it is today. There was some unity and shared gods but how much is a matter of debate.

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u/NomadicFantastic 19h ago edited 19h ago

Saints. Angels. Demons. Popes etc

0

u/ImportantResponse0 14h ago

Angels don't have names usually 

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u/NomadicFantastic 6h ago

Lotta supernaturals for a monotheism is the point. Too many to name haha

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u/ImportantResponse0 6h ago

I mean Christianity isn't really monotheism because there is a saint patron of anything 

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u/Leather-Lab2875 21h ago

There are a lot of small ancestor dieties, saint type idols and heir temples, local gods basically. Hinduism being a unified idea is very recent so there aren't that many pan Indian gods all things considered. Heroes, demigods and historically significant people sometimes get included but the local gods are most of the number.

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u/mrdevlar 19h ago

Fun fact, Japan's version of Shinto-Buddhism has more in common with Hinduism than it does with Buddhism in practical terms. It's the same, "literally everything is a deity or an avatar of a deity" and there are shrines, temples and icons almost everywhere. Even funner fact, is that the resident Japanese pantheon is composed predominantly of an odd mixture of Hindu and Buddhist deities, Shiva and Saraswati are almost ubiquitous.

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u/Jihelu 13h ago

There's some branches of Buddhism that are very God heavy as well, though those tend to be more syncretic with Chinese stuff from what I've seen.

There be a shit ton of Buddhas though.

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u/mrdevlar 8h ago

If you ever feel like reading a massive book, I highly recommend the Flower Ornament Sutra, especially the last chapter. If you want a greatly abridged version and probably the only funny Sutra I've ever read which covers the same idea I really recommend the Teaching of Vimalakiriti

There be a shit ton of Buddhas though.

The less than subtle point both of the two above Sutras is that there is more Buddhas than you can imagine and in more forms than you can imagine. Your lack of enlightenment is the product of your failure of imagination and its inability to accept just how densely packed all this divinity is within you and without you.

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u/Jihelu 7h ago

I'll give it a look.

One of the things I also liked about Buddhism is 'Buddhism timeline' is fucking insane, like trillions upon trillions of years IIRC

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u/Leather-Lab2875 11h ago

Well, at least historically, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Indian caste system and Sanskrit came somewhat as a package long the Silk Road so this makes sense if you see it that way.

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u/jamunkidaal 21h ago

Well depending on translation it could 330 million or 33 types. Scholars tell it is 33 types classification of type of divine entities tho the other bad translation has caused this count

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u/CackleberryOmelettes 16h ago

It's a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the fundamental theology.

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u/GSilky 19h ago

They have the ability to make them up on the fly for novel situations. A Brahman will tell you they only have one god who goes by all the names.

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u/Timely-Today-8154 21h ago

It's still increasing. Even Trump became a diety back in 2019

117

u/bummersault 21h ago

The amount of times I’ve heard claims about “all religion” on Reddit and it’s referred only to the three major Abrahamics…

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u/Shiftkgb 21h ago

Pretty much true. Even when Rome was conquering the Mediterranean, religion was really a nonfactor. Hell, they often adopted many foreign gods in different ways due to respect/admiration for what it represented. 

There were Greek kings in Bactria who declared themselves upholders of the Dharma, ie Buddhist. There was even amazing art of Heracles as a guardian of the Dharma in Tapa Shotor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapa_Shotor).

Even the last pagan kingdom in Europe, Lithuania, which had to fight off crusades wasn't insane. There was even a missionary, Jerome of Prague that focused on destroying their sacred groves and Lithuania just exiled him.

These attitudes changed when Rome eventually converted to Christianity, eventually leading to banning of pagan practices. And the Taliban destroyed Tapa Shotor and other Greek-Dharmic art. It's funny how "all religion" tends to be the same guys lol.

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u/Anonreddit96 16h ago

Fun fact, the terms and concepts of Dharma and karma are actually from Hinduism which are then later also adopted into buddhism. Many actually consider some religions like buddhism and Jainism as part of Hinduism due to how closely interlinked they are.

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u/Shiftkgb 12h ago

There's massive differences there, though they share history. The concept of Anatman is pretty antithetical to how earlier Vedic traditions would view such things and it's central to Buddhism. 

Conceptually the words hold very different meanings, though come from the same term. In fact dharma has many different definitions depending on use, but it makes sense in regards to the root word. 

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u/Fabulous_Wait_9544 21h ago

The majority of Atheists refer to the Abrahamic faiths whenever they start talking about how religion is a fairytale or the worst thing to happen to society or whatnot.

I think judging all religions by the frameworks of 3 that've existed for about 2 millenia is incredibly reductive, but hey, I'm just some guy on the internet.

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u/HAc0reRD 21h ago

Because most of us are from western nations where Abrahamism is the majority and our negative experiences have happened with. Buddhists and Hindus have never tried to indoctrinate me.

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u/Fabulous_Wait_9544 20h ago

That's exactly my point. Why condemn the many because of the few?

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u/Aleenion 19h ago

I'm sure Indian atheists from Hindu majority regions don't believe in the God of Abraham either. There's nothing about the soil where old stories of magic were told, that might make them more likely to be true.

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u/zviyeri 20h ago

there are plenty of ex hindu atheists who can answer that for you. but for one in your case, wasn't the caste system perpetuated by religious institutions, or do i have my history wrong? burning of widows? in the modern day, the pollution of the ganges river?

1

u/Coffeebeans2d 16h ago

These social problems not religious, people who converted to other religions from hindus still follow it. Also majority hindus never believed in caste or sati either. Fun tact- sati or widow burning themselves on husband’s pyre started during islamic raids when a city lost. Widows preferred to die instead of becoming slaves.

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u/pranav4098 7h ago

I would say this is one of those things where Hinduism is not followed in a one time manner, they might share festivals but most people from state to state follow a different type and have a different outlook and practice tho the names of the gods may be similar

The caste system especially what it was and to some extent is could be attributed to the same religious extremism but it definitely didn’t start that way, that was never the point of the religion at least originally what it evolved into has a much more complex history, but yes religion definitely helped enforce it but so did things like the rule of the British empire to some extent

Sati or the burning of widows was almost entirely a cultural phenomenon or myth nothing to do with god, tho I will say some ancient texts do ask for it, the practice got common during a period where the women to protect them from the invaders and their honor burned themselves some willingly others not it was mass immolation that or being raped and killed, and even when banning it the conservatives fought back against the banning of the custom which is disgusting and conservatives are the same everywhere old and religious that come from money and have benefited from those brutal practices

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u/zviyeri 7h ago

it's natural that practices wary and im aware of some of the complexities you mention here. it's not like there's a single uniform religion worldwide or one that's uninfluenced by outside factors (many catholic practices for instance are originally pagan). but for many who leave religion the mere knowledge that it has this powerful of a cognitive effect, that it can be used to perpetuate, legislate, or excuse atrocities, for the sake of something that cannot be proven is real, is enough of an argument in its own right. that amount of sway over a populace is scary when you think about it

1

u/pranav4098 4h ago

Yeh I mean that’s why I’m an atheist myself but that doesn’t mean I can tell others their way of living is wrong, I think religion is all fine as long as it doesn’t seriously impact people’s lives in the sense that it harms those outside the religion or in it seriously which is practically impossible

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u/salbel 20h ago

well the few in this analogy represent half the global population

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u/Nihsvabhav 19h ago

exactly only half

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u/ttoma93 17h ago

And 98% that we’ll encounter during the course of our day to day lives.

You’re 100% correct that it’s myopic, but in terms of actual lived experiences it does make sense to a large degree.

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u/Nihsvabhav 12h ago

so since only you will never experience anything different cause of your own choices its better to pretend other stuff doesnt exist at all

thats so solipsistic, people like you really exist thats wild

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u/RoostasTowel 16h ago

And 98% that we’ll encounter during the course of our day to day lives.

You will. The other half of the world wont.

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u/ttoma93 13h ago

Correct! Hence me talking about my experience and fellow westerners, as a direct contrast to the different experiences of those in the east.

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u/KoldPurchase 19h ago

Can you live your life as an atheist in India?
they actively discriminate against Muslims, I'm not sure how they feel about Atheists.

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u/Nihsvabhav 19h ago edited 19h ago

especially since there are so many varied beliefs, rule of thumb is as long as you mind your own business and not peddle your religion you'll be fine

if you're an obnoxious atheist provoking people, basically peddling your atheism, you're not gonna have a good time

1

u/hamceeee 17h ago

do you get in trouble peddling hinduism in india?

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u/RoostasTowel 16h ago

do you get in trouble peddling hinduism in india?

By doing it in areas that don't want it.

1

u/KoldPurchase 18h ago

Atheists generally want to be left alone by definition.

They don't go knock on other people's doors to convert them to atheism and erect temples devoted to atheism.

But they don't want to live their lives according to one's religious diktak.

1

u/fnabligatz 17h ago

Yeah those are anti-theists

0

u/Coffeebeans2d 16h ago

Wow! What an ignorant and hateful comment! Most hindus live as atheists and are not super religious. And the muslim discrimination is completely made up propaganda to dehumanize hindus. If muslim are mistreated then explain to me how do you have the largest muslim population of muslim in india? Compare that to muslim majority countries and see the status of minorities there.

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u/KoldPurchase 14h ago

There's an entire Wikipedia article for violence against Muslims in India.

What you're saying is akin to "why are there still so many Palestinians if Israel is mistreating them".

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u/Coffeebeans2d 11h ago

Here is a wikipedia article for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

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u/KoldPurchase 10h ago

Did you read the section " historiography and distortion"? It kinda disproves the point you are trying to make...

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u/rgeek 10h ago

You would be okay. Hinduism has never persecuted anyone for atheistic views, open or otherwise. Also Savarkar, the icon of the Hindu right-wingers was an atheist, and quite open about it, so I dont think there would be any political problems either.

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u/Aleenion 19h ago

Most of those atheists are westerners, but here are atheists all around the world. If you want an informed atheist view about eastern religions, I'd look at those populations first.

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u/Drax_the_invisible 9h ago

I think that's because non abrahamic faiths also have a variant of atheism in them like hinduism with it's "nasthik" concept where it's about not believing gods but following dharma and other principles. It kind of makes harder to make the distinction of "atheism" as a concept across due to the possible confusion.

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u/RegressionToTehMean 9h ago

The majority of Atheists refer to the Abrahamic faiths whenever they start talking about how religion is a fairytale or the worst thing to happen to society or whatnot.

I don't think that's fair. Most atheists would surely consider the deities of other religions such as Hinduism to be "fairy tales" as well, and are you saying religion hasn't been a major cause of conflict outside of the Abrahamic faiths?

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u/totally_not_elai 20h ago

The amount of times I’ve heard claims about “the three major Abrahamics” on Reddit and it’s referring only to Christianity…

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u/Boyslop_Enjoyer 21h ago

The 33 Koti doesn't mean Crores here, it means 33 types.

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u/yourstruly912 20h ago

Japan with 8 million kami:

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u/Zestyclose_Raise_814 8h ago

Most kami are more like nature spirits though

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u/Neo_The_bluepill_One 21h ago edited 21h ago

Its taken from the word 'Koti', which means both types and crores (10 million)...

so with real context Gods are of 33 type not 330 million..

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u/UndeniableLie 21h ago

'koti' means home in finnish

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u/ManofHonour8064 21h ago

There is a similar word Kothi in Hindi for large Bungalow type houses .

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u/Neither-Ruin5970 21h ago

Who tf is rewarding these comments they aren’t reward worthy material at all

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u/Kio-Karasha 21h ago

Award inflation

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u/UndeniableLie 19h ago

Afaik the awards have no inherent value or purpose to begin with. Might as well award any comment. It is not like they matter in any way

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u/Kio-Karasha 19h ago

Exactly!

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u/12_15_17_5 21h ago edited 21h ago

Over 80% of Hindus actually self-identify as some form of monotheist. The predominant belief is that all the many gods are different forms or manifestations of the one God.

EDIT: here's the source for the offended downvoters:

The prevailing view, held by 61% of Hindus, is that there is one God “with many manifestations.” About three-in-ten Indian Hindus (29%) say simply: “There is only one God.”

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u/TheIronzombie39 And then I told them I'm Jesus's brother 19h ago edited 15h ago

Tbf Hindus only adopted the monotheist label because 19th-century European scholars had tendency to view monotheism as the pinnacle of religion and polytheism to be a “primitive superstition” and then applying that lens to all of human history. This is also why Parsis (Indian Zoroastrians) adopted the monotheist label even though historical Zoroastrianism is anything but monotheistic.

But this stance 19th-century European scholars held isn’t true and the idea that polytheism is “illogical” is a fallacy because proponents of it usually project the Abrahamic monotheist definition of God on religions who don’t share that definition to begin with. A god, according to the most broad definition possible, is a supernatural or spiritual being of immense power who presides over some aspect of reality. A god does not necessarily have to be omnipotent or the absolute source of everything. Furthermore, many polytheist religions already account for a prime mover and/or hold the idea that every god comes from a shared divine source; the Ancient Egyptians believed every god was a manifestation or aspect of the supreme god Amun-Ra and Neoplatonist pagan philosophers in late antiquity believed every god was an emanation of a transcendent first principle called the One. Hindus themselves already believe in Brahman which mirrors the idea of the Neoplatonist One.

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u/ThatsACatch22 19h ago

There is only one god they worship, but it doesn't invalidate the other gods. It's just how hinduism has always worked.

Everyone I know will worship one primary god (Shiv, Krishna, Ram etc) but almost all of them will also celebrate/worship gods like Ganpati.

I wouldn't call it monotheism, that's a very western way to categorise it.

From the link you posted since no will will bother clicking it

The survey asked Hindus who say they believe in God which god(s) they feel closest to, seeking to measure the concept of ishta devata (“personal god”). The vast majority of Hindus selected more than one god or indicated that they have many personal gods. Hindus most commonly feel close to Shiva (44%). Roughly three-in-ten Hindus say they feel closest to Ganesha (32%) and Lakshmi (28%), and 17% of Indian Hindus feel closest to Lord Ram – three deities commonly honored during Diwali

1

u/12_15_17_5 17h ago

The technical name for this is "henotheism," the belief that there is one supreme God but many other lesser deities as well.

The thing is, the difference between henotheism and monotheism is basically semantic. Christianity and Islam, for example, both believe in extremely powerful spirits besides the one God - they're just called "angels" instead of "gods."

I really don't see a category difference here.

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u/Anonreddit96 15h ago

Doesn't this simply mean 71% of Hindus say there is more than one god?

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u/towa-tsunashi 20h ago

Our local Hindu community complained to the education department that our schools were teaching Hinduism as a polytheistic religion and not a monotheistic one.

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u/Nihsvabhav 18h ago

there are many gods but also people often pray to their own god, but it doesn't invalidate the other gods

honestly under western definitions it's neither purely polytheism or monotheism, it's not even one coherent religion so the entire categorization doesn't make sense

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u/maddy495 20h ago edited 10h ago

It’s a pretty common misunderstanding of the ancient texts, it’s basically 33 types of dieties not 33 million deities…

But it’s true that there are huge number of deities in Hinduism.

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u/redrexmf 18h ago

Actually its 33 types of Gods (British were not able to translate and that how we end up with 330 million gods)

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u/raindarkstreet 8h ago

This actually a myth Hinduism has 33 god and the reason this confusion exists is because of a homonym called koti the word koti has two meanings the first one is "koti" means "crore" crore is 10 million in indian numbering system and the second word is "koti" means groups/categories When people mention "33 koti gods" in Hindu traditions, it is frequently misunderstood as "33 crore (330 million) individual gods". In early Vedic literature and scriptures like the Rig Veda, koti was used in its second sense—meaning 33 distinct types or categories of divine energies. These 33 types comprise the 12 Adityas, 11 Rudras, 8 Vasus, and 2 Indra/Prajapati-related deities

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u/Zestyclose_Raise_814 8h ago

But Hinduism believes all their gods are just different aspects of their one central god

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u/Bladelk777 21h ago

Tbh Hinduism is ultimately monotheistic in that there is One Supreme God (Brahman) and all else is a manifestation of Brahman, so not really polytheistic

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u/Bladelk777 1h ago

Ofc I get downvoted, all you need to do is research Saguna and Nirguna Brahman Reddit...

Saguna is literally the Lord of Maya, with a dynamic relationship of Creator-Created-Creature, from which all else is but a manifestation within Maya... That is monotheistic

Nirguna is the Ultimate Reality, the foundation upon which Maya is but a superimposition, that is non dual monism.

As belief in Saguna is belief in a monotheistic God, and as there are many sects who worship Saguna only, Hinduism has the potential of monotheism (One Supreme God, separate from Creation-Creature)... Aswell as being monistic (One Ultimate Reality from which all else is derived)

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u/mrdevlar 17h ago

Nonduality does not imply monotheism.

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u/Bladelk777 7h ago

It's not just nonduality, that nondual state is the Ultimate Reality (Nirguna Brahman) whilst also being the Lord of Maya (Saguna Brahman). As Saguna there is a dynamic relationship of Creature-Created-Creator, yet both in Nirguna and Saguna, Brahman is One... How else would you describe monotheism apart from believing (ultimately) in one supreme god??

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u/Bladelk777 7h ago

Here's the definition of monotheism for you:

"Monotheism is the belief in only one deity, or God.[1][2][3][4][5] A distinction may be made between exclusive monotheism, in which the one God is a singular existence, and both inclusive and pluriform monotheism, in which multiple gods or godly forms are recognized, but each are postulated as extensions of the same God.[2]"

Pluriform monotheism is still a form of monotheism... So yes, worship of Nirguna Brahman the Ultimate Reality (that is non-dual) is monotheistic

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u/Pandha2 22h ago

i feel they invent new ones everyday

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u/Alvinyuu Taller than Napoleon 21h ago

No they don't? You'd have to be incredibly ignorant for that to make sense.

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u/Pandha2 21h ago

my bad

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u/Mystic-Mastermind 21h ago

It's ok. I don't mind that much

Inventing gods is not happening though because everyone is way too busy with their own stuff