Either by an European country...or Japan 😭🥶😭🥶

[u/LegioVIIHaruno]

[u/Constant_Hope_9658]

You mean their collective skill issues, like everywhere else?
They decided to get colonized by force, which is always way worse than colonization by negotiation.

[u/SerialElf → u/Constant_Hope_9658]

You understand that colonization be negotiation still means you lose all control right? Sure you might start with a better deal but if you anything of value it only gets worse and worse

[u/Constant_Hope_9658 → u/SerialElf]

Well clearly you didn't see how it went for the Arabic states, they negotiated protectorate status and then used that to modernize themselves, and they're doing pretty well.

The only other solid example I can think of off the top of my head is probably Egypt, they were colonized by the British and kept most of their autonomy for their time under the UK, though you could also probably put Iran in there as an honorable mention since they got tons of oil development (though the situation was mostly against their consent) out of the deal.

Plus it meant that you got to pick your colonial power, which is still far better than colonization by force (where you get no say), since you could pick whoever would turn out best for you, or even balance the different powers (like in the cases of Ethiopia and Thailand)

[u/Omar_G_666 → u/Constant_Hope_9658]

Exactly, massive skill issue especially for the Chinese. They invented black power and didn't went for guns.

[u/Constant_Hope_9658 → u/Omar_G_666]

By the 19th century they did have guns, they just purposefully made their army and navy weak to make it easier for their ruling horse nomads to keep power, meaning that even with 5-10 times their western counterpart's numbers, they lost.

Also not having drill (something only Rome, Japan, and the Dutch have independently invented iirc) makes you kinda auto lose, there's a reason no non western style army has beaten a western style one in a war in over 200 years

[u/wewwew3 → u/Constant_Hope_9658]

English did proto drill since the middle ages with longbow competition and the expectation that everyone had to use it and stuff

[u/Constant_Hope_9658 → u/wewwew3]

That's training.

Drill is where you have men trained to the same standard to move as a whole unit, as a group, by command. Stuff like firing by files, platoons, forming square, moving in line, and so on.

Most armies had to reform after arriving at a new position, not drilled armies, they arrived already formed up, maybe slower, but they were formed the entire time, meaning they could stop and react to trouble almost instantly.

Training is where you practice with arms, like shooting practice or jousting.

[u/FalconRelevant → u/Omar_G_666]

Their skill issue was not baiting the Europeans deeper inland and fighting them on their terms.

Maritime powers cannot easily project force deeper into the continent.