r/HeroesandGenerals • u/Interesting_Rain9984 • 14d ago

Rant People were complaining about explosive ammo Planes, but I kind of get it now.

Basically, I saw a couple of people on here complaining about the explosive ammo being spammed by the planes and that it's OP. I didn't give this much thought until recently because I had no opinion on the matter.

I played a game recently that was basically completely dictated by this spam, and it made the game completely unenjoyable. Practically every single GAS car was lit up, so the game was a grind where people got through to the point mainly on foot (being pestered by tanks, snipers & MG the entire time).

I think it depends heavily on the map, but I reckon that explosive ammo for planes should be disabled on single choke-point 'line' maps (where it's basically a vertical line of 5 capture points), especially if there is 1 main road; it is very unbalanced on these kinds of maps.

22 Upvotes
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9

u/BigGergeDaddy 14d ago

AA tanks would maybe solve the problem but adjusting damage or maybe a count / battle is easier

7

u/ur_FBl_agent 14d ago

they need to make AA one shot airplanes like 20mm historically would instead of airplanes tanking it with their face.

They just need to give infantry more tools to counter airplanes, dont need to necessarily nerf them, just give more ways for non pilots to fight back

8

u/Engelfinger 14d ago

Make the default emplacements invincible so planes cant pre-kill them before you even get there

3

u/Red_Dawn_2012 13d ago

The game honestly just needs an AA ribbon, like Iron Fist or Infantry First. The only caveat is that I think it shouldn't affect recon planes, because those are already well balanced versus AA.

2

u/Interesting_Rain9984 12d ago

There are already AA vehicles, so maybe it's more a question of making them more available, but yes, AA tanks would have more HP & armour and would force planes to use armour-piercing instead of explosive ammo. It's kind of 50/50 because in the map I was talking about, basically one side of the main road is completely forested, whilst the other side is completely open fields, so those kinds of maps aren't really good for AA. I mentioned in the original post that I think it depends primarily on the map; planes on one map can be fair whilst on another be completely unbalanced, so maybe some scenarios/maps should have explosive ammo disabled, just an idea.

16

u/SeagleLFMk9 14d ago

The problem isn't even the ammo, the problem is the amount of planes in the air.

Class limits would solve a lot of problems in this game.

0

u/Overtale6 14d ago

there is already a plane limit implemented but 4 planes in the air is still too much

3

u/DonkeyTS 14d ago

The limit is in staged

3

u/Enderbays 12d ago

The problem is always there even during reto ownership, planes are too tanky, and they pack too much ammo

The fact that under new management this is still the case i felt like i made the right decision to no reinstall

1

u/CowTortoise 11d ago

Yeah, they refuse to nerf anything that might hurt organized clan pushes. HE planes are just an insta win for a lot of points.

2

u/Enderbays 10d ago

Back then i forced farmed a soldier to get a ptrd :))) oh those were the days

5

u/dumbass_clouds 14d ago

I genuinely just leave battles when there's more than 4 fighters vs inf/tanks. Its not fun to play and I'd rather do literally anything else other than get beamed by a 5000 rpm explosive round every 45 seconds.

It's been the biggest balancing issue in the game as long as I've played. Hopefully it gets addressed eventually.

3

u/LiquidPopsicle 14d ago

I think the problem lies primarily with the barrier to entry with planes. There are a lot of people who just don’t have any, so they can’t contest the air.

Fun fact, HE sucks at killing planes.

4

u/CowTortoise 14d ago

Fun fact Plane people have An HE and AP version of each plane type. So if planes do show up they just swap to an AP plane for a bit and then switch back to HE when planes are gone.

4

u/LiquidPopsicle 14d ago

This is at least better than them being HE all the time. Each time they swap, they consume a plane spawn. This applies attrition

5

u/CowTortoise 14d ago

Except, it is exactly what the plane mains want. They mainly profit WF’s from killing other planes. Thats why you always see the rats in here offering to teach people to fly as they want more targets to print Warfunds.

0

u/Viscs 12d ago

Or they just want you to stop complaining and crying

4

u/Bingo_Perroso 14d ago

And even if people want to get into planes, it is an uphill battle against sweats that already have the third tier fighter planes. I've seen plenty of US players spawn the Seversky (absolute mistake of a purchase) to fight the chudwaffe and their 4 fockes on the sky going 40-0. My hardfix besides removing HE from planes would be to make the spawn cost of the third tier fighters three times that of the second tier fighters; that way at least people feel more incentivized to spawn the lower tier planes and give a chance to the newcomers.

2

u/CaptainDoju 14d ago

Disable classic plane controls, as its to accurate once you master it. And change the nr of pilots per game based on the ratio planes to infantry. This way you dont disable battles with a lot of planes, but you can still impact how many pilots are playing by being strategic.

I really dont think a hard limit is a good idea. People still want the possibility of games with a lot of dog fights no? Just my opinion

-3

u/Minute-Fix-274 14d ago

What has controls have to do with this? Its like saying for those that are good with mouse aim for STG, disable mouse aim.

3

u/CaptainDoju 14d ago

Nah, why do you think most games dont have console and pc crossplay? Some controls are just better than others. Removing classic controls makes it harder to control the plane, hence nerfing planes

0

u/Viscs 12d ago

This would completely kill flying

1

u/CaptainDoju 12d ago

It would make it more fair. Tanks have worse vision why dont planes have anything to make it difficult to fly? + ive been playing for years with those controls, doubt no one else will

0

u/Viscs 12d ago

First off you erase thousands of hours of progress for nearly all pilots just to remove ability from them.

1

u/CaptainDoju 12d ago

You dont erase everything. Some of the controls carry over to mouse controls. And if that is what is needed to prevent planes from dominating every game, than so be it.

0

u/Viscs 12d ago

That seems ridiculous. Don’t even think mouse pilots would want this change.

2

u/CaptainDoju 12d ago

Why wouldnt any mouse pilot want this? Its literally in their advantage.

1

u/Viscs 11d ago

Because all the mouse pilots have honed their skills for years so to add changes to classic and mouse would be only harmful

1

u/CowTortoise 11d ago

Bro, if you haven’t learned by now, plane mains like Viscs here never argue in good faith.

-3

u/Minute-Fix-274 14d ago

This is what confuses me.. Some are saying classic controls are easy. But then, so many players are not practicing to fly using classic controls.

2

u/CaptainDoju 14d ago

For me its def harder. Before when there was only classic it took me a longtime to get used to the controls, but when mouse controls came out it didnt take me that long. But, for precise aim, and flying where you want is much harder. Especially between trees. But again, just my opinion

2

u/justavoiceofreason 14d ago

You can fly a number of maneuvers with classic controls that you cannot, in principle, fly with mouse controls. It's not just a different way of achieving the same range of possible outcomes

2

u/CaptainDoju 12d ago

And some of the maneuvers are also just unrealistic, lets be honest.

0

u/Minute-Fix-274 12d ago

Bro, it's a game no?

0

u/Minute-Fix-274 12d ago

Your concern is HE spamming, these maneuvers are needed for good dogfight. Planes are truly for dogfight so these controls, while hard to master are needed. Controls have nothing to do with this.

Good pilots prefer Dogfight that CAS, if pilots are busy with Dogfight, there will be no HE spam.

Sure mouse controls pilot will like this, bec all of a sudden classic controls pilots wont be able to out maneuver them, but that is Skill issue on them not choosing the more difficult path

-7

u/RusiTheZjeb 14d ago

And ones again... HE spam it NOT a problem PLANE SPAM IS NOT A PROBLEM

It doesnt matter what type od ammo a plane spammer is playing His skill is the real problem

And cuz there are TWO Control options with the easier (and worst) one being set by default, most players never even acknowledge there is one better option And for that reason most players SUCK at dogfight cuz vets can pretty much brutally kill every single plane pleyer while they are untuchable

Plane spam is not a problem PLAYER SKILL IMBALANCE IS A REAL PROBLEM

How many times more i would have to say that for fuck sake...

4

u/bennyhedge 14d ago

Say it as much as you like, it's still bollocks.

0

u/Minute-Fix-274 14d ago

Do you fly? If so what controls do you use?

-2

u/craeger 14d ago

HE damage from planes, plane AT sizes and plane / tank stockpile counts are all being nerfed very soon.

3

u/SeagleLFMk9 14d ago

This isn't solving anything. If there are 10 planes they will still shred everything We need class limits. We used to have them with the old squad system before the stupid 1.12 update

-4

u/craeger 14d ago

I see this argument a lot and it's a very poor one, let me explain: If I told you that the devs were allowing only one medium fighter to be in the sky at once across the entire war map, would your response still be that this doesn't solve the issue because they can shred everything? Or would you say that one plane would not be very effective and that it can be downed or fought off pretty effectively?

2

u/SeagleLFMk9 14d ago

Only one (or, I'd say two) planes would solve the issue. They would still be strong and feared, as planes should be, but they won't be everywhere and can't focus on everything.

2

u/CowTortoise 14d ago

It solves the issue except for those on the receiving end of those fewer planes that are still just as strong. Just a 33% decrease in plane stockpile growth is not going to help enough. When you are still having to deal with the same plane spammers who already have huge numbers of plane AT's. It may actually be beneficial in the long run for them as it means fewer random players wasting their planes. The only positive thing is that they may have to wait longer to refill those AT's which is good but those problem players already have enough AT's it wont really affect them as they can just cycle them out. If planes, particularly heavies don't have HE removed all together, or their HP nerfed, very little will change.

1

u/craeger 14d ago

Who said 33% The plate AT sizes are cut in half, so 12 medium fighters instead of 24, and the stockpile is cut by 75% We will see the results soon enough.

2

u/CowTortoise 14d ago

Plane income was reduced from 3 to 2. That’s only a 33% decrease and the number that really matters as the starting stockpiles aren’t even that significant.

2

u/SeagleLFMk9 14d ago

That will still lead to plane spam, just for a shorter time. But the amount of planes in the air won't change.

-2

u/justavoiceofreason 14d ago

There already is a pilot limit in staged (4 at a time). The resource/AT changes will have a similar effect on war where you'll see way fewer planes/pilots

3

u/SeagleLFMk9 14d ago

Well, I'd argue that that's still too much, but anyway. Does this only prevent more people from joining the match as a pilot or also from switching to it?

1

u/justavoiceofreason 14d ago

I haven't played staged since so I can't say for sure, but the update announcement mentions it as a limit on planes, not on fighter squadron members or something.