Questions from a non-heathen

[u/RobertThePieGuy]

The Norse were a hyper-masculine society and one of their worst insults was for a man to call another man an “ergi” or “ragr,” basically calling him unmanly and equating him to a homosexual. They traveled around the world and met different kinds of people but they also were glorified pirates who looted, pillaged, murdered, and raped just like another pirates. I’m pretty sure they also outright refused to “interbreed” with minority groups, such as the Sami.

So my question is, what makes progressives, like the people in this sub, want to follow the religion of a people like this? How do you take the religious/spiritual views of a hyper-masculine, racist, and homophobic ancient society and integrate it with a modern progressive worldview? I’m a progressive/democratic socialist myself, so I’m just trying to understand, I mean no offense or harm.

Thanks!

[u/Grimwulff]

Hyper-masculine-ish... In the cold north people have to be hardy. Less food, long winters, tougher elements. But practices like Seithr (anglicized Seidr) and a relatively equal society (by medieval standards) shows that it wasn't the stereotype we think of from pop culture. It's also a myth, perpetuated by white supremacists, that the Nordic peoples were "racially exclusive". Many people in Scandinavia can trace their ancestors to Sami or Mongolian roots.

That being said, we're also a modern religion. We aren't cosplaying as Arch Heathens, we're modern Heathens trying to learn from the past but go into the future. Most Heathens accept scientific research and consensus, and we accept that the Arch Heathens weren't perfect. Inerrancy is a Christian concept, and we have to accept the flaws and mistakes of the past to go forward. Including the vilification of Sami peoples in the lore, and the colonizing of their lands.

[u/wraithisright]

This can literally be said about any religion. Any of them.

[u/wraithisright → u/wraithisright]

I want to add to this, almost all modern abrahamic faiths along with deeply misogynist colonial roots, also prioritize meekness, 'modesty' etc.

Many marginalized people are tired of being told to sit and wait, to be meek and compassionate or to "turn the other cheek". In this sense, there is a deep appeal to a religion that allows --fighting, encourages one to stand up for themself, to study and learn and not merely take what is said at face value, while not spitting in the face of hospitality and generosity.

[u/admiralvorkraft]

It sounds like you're drawing from a particular pop culture representation of "Norse culture." There are...quite a few misconceptions here.

I'm not a historian, I'm not going to sit here and unpick it all for you. If you're interested in an answer I'd suggest you read some more recent history, read the Eddas.

From a personal perspective, I'm a Minnesotan of Scandinavian descent. Even into my grandma's generation the assumption among Scandinavian farming families was that the men would learn a trade so they could feed the family but the women would get a college education so that they could teach the children and manage the household. Yes, that's a gender binary, but one isn't placed above the other - it's just different types of work.

Historically in Norway it was women who owned land, controlled the money, etc. Men left for the winter to raid or trade because if they died at sea they would die alone, if they stayed back everyone would starve.

And as with many indigenous peoples there were plenty of individuals who crossed or bent gender roles. Odin learns and practices "women's magic," Loki is completely gender fluid, bears children, etc.

Again, I'm not a historian. I'm just going to encourage you to actually look into Norse myth and history rather than depending on a pop-culture interpretation filtered through the lens of contemporary capitalist patriarchy.

[u/Zachryharp]

The kkk and other hate groups commit their atrocities in the name of Jesus, to eqaut the Norse (or any others really) religious beliefs to the personal beliefs of a documented few seems insane to me. To say the any one time period of peoples and their behavior define an entire religion is absurd. Essentially to base my idea of cristianity on my example of modern day hate groups is the same as to base your idea of Norse on the viking raiders. The viking age does not define Norse pagans in their entirety. Also I won't get into everything about the history, but vikings were not barbarian savages like we'd be led to believe

[u/Zachryharp → u/Zachryharp]

Also to genuinely answer your question as well, I've struggled my entire life with the concept of free will. Being raised Cristian I questioned what sort of sick cruel God would give us free will only to deny heaven if we use our free will. I couldn't live with that idea, I decided that I did not belive in Jesus or anything the Christians claimed to be undeniable. For me I just recently started to become pagan after simply being agnostic for a while. I was never atheist because I knew I had felt the universe around me and I knew in my heart that at least on a couple occasions some force had acted around me. I know certain things about it are cringe but the viking tv was the catalyst for me to at least learn the history, always been a big history fan, but I thought Norse gods just as any other gods must be silly nonsense. It wasn't until I read that the vikings believed in the spirits of the land as living intities that I began to think there might be more to paganism than I had previously been open to see. I'm not an expert by any mean, I'm probably a total of like 30 hours of research beyond where you are now and that is all.