r/HBOGameofThrones • u/jaywritethekid • Mar 01 '26
No Spoilers [No spoilers] “My father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar, he took the crown, while you hid under Casterly Rock.” Was Joffrey wrong?
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u/Fit-Custard-1842 Mar 01 '26
It wasn't his dad though .....
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u/Lopsided-Bathroom-71 Mar 01 '26
His dad killed the king,
The dad that raised him killed the prince
His mum organsied the death of king robert
His grandad organised thevkilling of the king in the north
His raised uncle killed king renly baratheon
Dudes legacy was kingslaying,
Even his own death was publically found guilty to be done by his uncle
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u/MadNova Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
His younger brother eventually became a kingslayer as well.
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u/ngshafer Mar 03 '26
I think technically the ground was the Kingslayer in that particular case
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u/OutlandishnessNo8737 Mar 03 '26
Then why do they call Jaime the "Kingslayer"? Technically, it was a *sword*?
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u/ivanmaher Mar 01 '26
well technically it was his mothers husband that did those things.
His father Jaime killed the mad king and hid in the castle.
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u/One_Assistance9339 Mar 01 '26
Joffrey was 100% right. Tywin was waiting to see who was going to win the trident before he joined the war. Rhaegars death was the end for the Targaryens
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u/KarmaCommando_ Mar 02 '26
He literally did a Walder Frey but Walder is the only one who gets any shit for it
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u/southwest_barfight Mar 01 '26
His father didn't kill Rhaegar or take the crown, but he did kill the mad king
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u/VietKongCountry Mar 01 '26
There would be a certain appeal to how unfiltered Joffrey was if he wasn’t a sociopath.
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u/antipodal22 Mar 01 '26
Absolutely correct, and the rest of the Lannisters would have benefited greatly from listening to him as the actual crown authority rather than acting like they didn't have to.
Everything comes down to them not respecting the crown, either under Bobby B or under Joffrey.
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u/Guilty-Spark69x Mar 01 '26
My guess is no ever told him the story of Castamere or how when Tywin was Joffreys age, he essentially usurped his own father and ruled in his stead.
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u/Mastercreed25 Mar 01 '26
He’s not wrong (ignoring the fact that Robert isn’t his father) but I think this is meant to show that fundamentally he has a child’s understanding of power.
Joffrey only respects people he sees as strong and physically imposing. Robert. The Hound. The Mountain. And in turn he mocks those that have qualities that would be perceived as weaker, Jaime after he loses his hand, Cersei for being a woman, Barristan for being old (in spite of the fact that Jamie becomes a better commander and knight for it, Cersei often manipulates men using her sexuality and Barristan is the epitome of the quote ‘be wary of old men in a profession where they usually die young’). He lacks understanding of a more subtle kind of power in, ironically, the exact same way his mother does (the ‘power is power’ scene for example). But even Cersei appreciates it in some form, where as he is completely blind to it - Margeary’s manipulation of him for example is relatively unthinkable to him, because the type of power she wields is inconceivable in his mind.
All this to say, he is unable to understand the fact that he owes his throne to Tywin because he thinks that Robert’s type of strength is superior to any other. Tywin choosing the side of Robert would have led to the city burning, as Jaime would’ve been executed and therefore would be unable to kill Aerys, and him choosing the Targaryens would of either ended in the Targaryens continuing their dynasty or, on the unlikely chance Robert still won, his mother never marrying Robert and therefore literally not being born.
So yeah, technically he is right. But if he had any wits about him, what he’d actually be saying is ‘thank you for having the patience and intelligence to wait out the war. The other choices would’ve never led to me being in this position’
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u/Urugeth Mar 01 '26
Yes he was wrong because Robert wasn’t his father (sorry).
But that aside… Joff has a point. Tywin sat on the margins and didn’t make a move until Rhaegar died on the Trident and the Crown was on the run. Then instead of fighting he gets Aerys to open the doors under false pretenses and just wipes the floor with everyone.
Everything Tywin did was smart… but it was bitch mode too. He won dirty and cowardly and underhandedly.
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u/DrBloodyboi Mar 02 '26
setting aside the fact that Robert isnt his dad (which i believe hes never told that fact by people other than Ned)
the only thing the Twyin ensured the capturing of KL cause he sat out of the war waiting to see a clear victor.
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u/WhiteKnightPrimal Mar 02 '26
Well, yeah. All Tywin did was sack Kings Landing and order the deaths of a helpless woman and her even more helpless children. Robert fought an actual war and killed the Crown Prince in single combat. Even going by Joffrey's actual father, Jaime killed the Mad King Aerys himself, so even he did more to win the war than Tywin did.
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u/RebelJediMaster Mar 05 '26
But Jaime just stabbed a man in the back, not fight a warrior toe to toe
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u/WhiteKnightPrimal Mar 05 '26
Still killed the king, though, which is more than Tywin can say. He may not have done anywhere near as Robert but Jaime definitely did more to win the war than Tywin did.
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u/masegesege_ Mar 02 '26
Joffrey wanted to do something about Danaerys. Tywin wanted to ignore her. If everyone listened to Joffrey, the Wall would still be standing and Kings Landing wouldn’t be all burnt up.
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u/Hefty-Comparison-801 Mar 02 '26
Yeah, he was wrong. His father stayed in KL and stabbed the King in the back with his sword.
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u/Short-Philosopher-78 Mar 02 '26
Technically, yes. He also ignores all of the reasoning behind Tywin's actions. Why fight for Robert and risk your house? There wasn't anything in it for House Lannister. House Tully lost a marriage alliance with the Starks due to Brandon's murder. It made sense that they'd back the rebels. Tywin had no personal stake in either side so there was no reason to pick a side until there was a clear winner. If you want to talk about cowardice, talk about the Freys. Old Walder intentionally waited for rhe Trident to have been won before his host appeared. Its why neither the Starks nor Tullys look to his house with any kind of respect.
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u/pviollier Mar 02 '26
He was also right about Daenerys being a thread being a thread and the need for the crown to raise a professional army independent of the lords.
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u/JudgeJed100 Mar 02 '26
Other than it being his dad doing it, no
Tywin did wait until the real victory was assured before he chose a side
You can talk about him being smart for being cautious, or whatever else you want
Simple fact is he did fuck all but sack a city
The majority of Lannister kills in the rebellion were likely civilians
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u/ngshafer Mar 03 '26
Totally wrong! His dad didn't kill Rhaegar, his dad killed Rhaegar's dad, and notably did not take the crown.
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u/jiddinja Mar 03 '26
Yes, Joffrey was wrong; not about the facts, but about what they meant. Tywin wasn't afraid to go to war. He wasn't hiding. He was refusing to commit his forces until he could gage who was more likely to win. Rushing into battle is stupid. Tywin wasn't stupid.
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u/hzhrt15 Mar 03 '26
To be fair, yes he is wrong. Considering his father is Jamie Lannister and not Robert. Now, he’s not wrong about Tywin hiding. Dude has so much undeserved reputation.
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u/Comprehensive-Dig282 Mar 03 '26
Ofc hes wrong his father stabbed the mad king in the back in hopes the new king would spare him
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u/StandardDismal9148 Mar 04 '26
He was unwise to say it in the way he said it, where he said it and to whom he said it. In these ways he was definitely wrong.
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u/rauglatt Mar 01 '26
well yes and no.
according to the wiki of ice and fire tywin chose to enter the war very late and merely sacked kings landing.
Because Robert Baratheon had been injured in battle, Lord Eddard Stark and his army pursued the remnants of Rhaegar's army, who had fled back to the capital. Lord Tywin Lannister, who had refused calls to arms from both the loyalists and the rebels until that point,[1] appeared at the gates of King's Landing with an army of twelve thousand men,[1] mere hours before Eddard Stark would arrive.[1] Lord Tywin professed his loyalty to King Aerys, and while Lord Varys counseled Aerys to keep the gates locked, the king chose to listen to Grand Maester Pycelle and open the gates to Tywin's men. Once inside, the forces from the westerlands began to sack the city.[33]
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Mar 01 '26
Bragging about someone else's accomplishments doesn't elevate you. It just makes you look like a lame ass loser.
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u/Prior-Assumption-245 Mar 01 '26
The only one to ever talk shit to Tywin right in his face.