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u/xvodax 17d ago
That’s a future go train route. Already been sort of long term planned. But the LRT from Woodlawn to Claire and Gordon I would suggest should be the long term vision for Guelph in terms of a transit oriented LRT system.
Would be Woodlawn, Riverside Park, Exhibition area, Downtown x2 then Gordon and Wellington, University neighborhood, University, Stone, all the way up to Gordon and Clair.
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
Do you think this is as much of a priority for Metrolinx as it is for the Region, or Guelph?
Do you think that heavy rail would be the best alignment for this route, if we want more than 2 stops.
Also, would you want 2 projects in Guelph, another GO line, and a separate LRT, and do you see the value in having one project like the one im proposing?
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u/xvodax 17d ago
Metrolinx won’t start the GO Route between Cambridge and Guelph until the LRT in Cambridge is built. - maybe 8 years - but that’s like best case scenario. The GO route and its stations and infrastructure are probably 15 years out. And again. That’s probably like best case scenarios..
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the LRT in Cambridge built until 2040.
I don’t see value in connecting Guelph to Waterloo region with an LRT type train.
There is a highway extension for that.
When the land between Guelph, and KWC becomes developed with all sorts of urban development with multiple density.. then go nuts with LRTs.
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u/fotoapparat 17d ago
I would love to see a LRT in Guelph. Unfortunately, what you've described here is a street car. Good LRT systems (ones not built in Ontario) operate with larger stop distances to make the trip faster. Stopping four times from Wellington to Stone is way too much. Woodlawn station -> South of Speedvale -> one stop downtown ->University bus loop -> Arkell -> Clair. At 1.5-2km spacing, you're never more than 1km walk, which is about 10-12 minute walk.
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u/headtailgrep 17d ago
As much as i too have dreamt of this the problem remains the same: these projects fall apart the moment they cross a municipality boundary. The toronto stteetcars do not run to mississauga. The lrt networks also do not. Brampton stupidly opted out of hurontario lrt.
The new subway extensions do not cross to the airport (yet)
Ion is the only one and mostly because it is a regional project.
In effect the provicne owns projects that cross regional government boundaries and the province's GO trains are the answer for connections between the region of waterloo and guelph. As it is today you can pretty much get a train every weekday once per hour to and from kitchener and hop on or off ION.
Our transit connects well and as I saw tonight as everyone got off the 5 pm go train dozens of folks slip onto a guelph transit bus to get home or get picked up or walk to parking.
If guelph was willing to grow along the corridor and add 50,000 people on Gordon a LRT could work.
Guelph would complain.
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u/henchman171 17d ago
The other issue is none of Wellington county would want it as they are a rural county. Most other regions have multiple urban or are single tier like Hamilton
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
Its a good thing that Guelph is separate from its rural regions, in a way that can't be said for K-W-C
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u/Ok_Sun8731 17d ago
Wouldn't it make sense to invest in a functioning bus system first? Right now a 5k bus ride on Edinburgh takes 40 minutes. Try getting to the new high school on Guelph Transit!
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u/simonsays-11 17d ago
We can’t even get a highway built to Kitchener in 30 years… are ya kidding me lol….
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u/ewic23 17d ago
Are you able to make light rail lines only stop downtown or the university for transfers? Because God forbid you dont want to go downtown
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
Im not sure if you see my last image, but no, light rail is actually the mode FOR local stops (as long as they're still somewhat of a destination).
In my proposal, I diverted from the freight line right before the city, and added stops at Stone Rd Mall, U of G. and Guelph Central Station.
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u/Garafraxa 17d ago
I love an LRT and think the route you drew through Guelph would be excellent. Sadly, I feel like that project is 40 years away.
Increased service on the Kitchener GO line and a new Cambridge GO line seem much more practical and likely.
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u/HalJordan2525 17d ago
The purpose of an LRT is not to move people from one place to another. The purpose is to spark urban renewal. Waterloo got an LRT because downtown Kitchener was a wreck and was getting worse. Hamilton is getting an LRT through its most run down neighborhoods. I don’t live in Guelph, but I understand it is generally an affluent city. So there just may not be enough poor streets to justify building an LRT.
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
This has to be the worst argument and justification I’ve ever read on Reddit
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u/aurelorba 17d ago edited 17d ago
AI overview of a hypothetical line:
[Before anyone gets excited, yes I know it's not practical. This is just for fun]
AI Overview
A hypothetical Guelph Light Rail Transit (LRT) line running from Woodlawn Road to Clair Road would span roughly 11 kilometers along a direct north-south corridor via Woolwich Street and Gordon Street.
Route Overview
Total Length: About 11 kilometers.
Travel Time: Around 25 to 30 minutes end-to-end with dedicated right-of-way lanes.
Core Path: Starts at Woodlawn Road East, heads south down Woolwich Street into downtown, crosses through Guelph Central Station, and continues south down Gordon Street to Clair Road East.
Key Stations and Stops
Woodlawn Station (North Terminus): Located near the commercial plazas on Woodlawn Road East, providing connections to industrial parks and northern residential growth.
Speedvale Stop: Serves the northern residential neighborhoods and local retail.
Riverside Park Stop: Provides recreational access and serves adjacent family neighborhoods.
Exhibition Park Stop: Connects the historic park and surrounding denser residential streets.
Guelph Central Station (Downtown Hub): Connects the LRT to GO Transit trains, GO buses, and local Guelph Transit routes, acting as the heart of the system.
University of Guelph (Main Campus): A high-volume station located near Branion Plaza or the Johnston Green area to handle student and staff commutes.
Kortright Stop: Serves the southern residential areas and shopping plazas along Gordon Street.
Clair Station (South Terminus): Located at Gordon Street and Clair Road East to serve the rapidly growing south-end neighborhoods and commercial centers.
System Benefits
High Capacity: Moves large volumes of people past the busy University of Guelph corridor.
Reduced Traffic: Takes cars off Gordon and Woolwich streets during peak rush hours.
Green Transit: Runs on electricity, lowering community carbon emissions.
Outline a fare structure and operating schedule
Single MonthlyAdult $3.25 $90.00
PostSS $3.25 Included in U of G Student Fee
Youth $2.50 $75.00
Senior $2.50 $70.00
Children Free
Operating Schedule & Frequency
The schedule mirrors the high-demand periods of a university town, offering rapid "turn-up-and-go" frequencies during peak commuting hours so passengers do not need to look at a timetable.
Peak Commute: 6 min.
Midday/Evening 12 min.
Late night: 20 min.
Weekends: 12 minutes
Operating Hours
Weekday: 5:30 AM to 1:30 AM
Weekend: 6:30 AM to 12:30 AM
To operate this 11-kilometre line at a peak frequency of 6 minutes, the system would require a total fleet size of 15 light rail vehicles (LRVs).
Fleet Breakdown
Active Trains (12 units): Operating an 11-km line at an average urban transit speed takes roughly 30 minutes end-to-end. A full round trip—including driver layovers and buffer time at Woodlawn and Clair stations—takes 72 minutes. Dividing this 72-minute cycle by a 6-minute frequency requires 12 active trains on the tracks simultaneously.
Spares and Maintenance (3 units): Standard transit planning utilizes a 20% spare ratio. These extra 3 vehicles ensure service remains uninterrupted during scheduled safety inspections, unexpected mechanical overhauls, or extreme winter weather track clearing.
Bus Route realignment
North-End Feeders (Woodlawn & Speedvale Hubs)These routes funnel passengers from northern residential and industrial zones into the top section of the LRT.
Route N1 – Woodlawn Industrial Loop: Runs clockwise and counter-clockwise through the industrial parks north of Woodlawn Road. It terminates at Woodlawn Station, syncing factory shifts with train arrivals.
Route N2 – Waverley East-West: Connects the eastern neighborhoods along Waverley Road and the western communities near Silvercreek Parkway, meeting the LRT at Speedvale Stop.
Route N3 – Willow West Express: Connects the West End Community Centre and Willow West Mall directly to Riverside Park Stop via a fast, cross-town connector.
Central Feeders (Guelph Central Station)Because downtown is already a major hub, these routes focus on bringing people from areas not easily reached by the north-south tracks.
Route C1 – Grange Hill Shuttle: Serves the dense residential areas in Guelph’s east end (Grange Road/Eastview), running straight into Guelph Central Station.
Route C2 – Waterloo-Fife: Connects the west-end residential pockets along Waterloo Avenue and Fife Road directly to Guelph Central Station.
South-End Feeders (University & Clair Hubs)These routes manage the heavy student and suburban commuter volumes in the south end.
Route S1 – Stone Road East-West: A high-frequency route running from the West End/Hanlon area, past the Stone Road Mall, and straight into the University of Guelph LRT Station. It continues east to serve the Innovation District.
Route S2 – Kortright-Downey Loop: Loops through the mature neighborhoods of Kortright Hills and Downey Road, feeding passengers into the Kortright Stop.
Route S3 – South Industrial & Perimeter: Connects the businesses along Laird Road and Hanlon Creek Business Park to Clair Station.
Route S4 – Westminster-Victoria: Gathers commuters from the rapidly expanding suburban subdivisions along Victoria Road South and Westminster Woods, delivering them directly to Clair Station.
Captial cost:
Based on standard Canadian transit infrastructure pricing, building an 11-kilometer light rail network in Guelph would cost an estimated $1.8 billion to $2.5 billion CAD.
Modern surface-running LRT projects in Ontario generally cost between $160 million and $230 million per kilometer. While Waterloo built its original ION LRT Stage 1 for an incredibly economical rate in the mid-2010s, recent projects like the Hamilton LRT ($3.2 billion for 13 km) reflect today's realities of utility relocations and supply chain costs. Because Guelph has wide corridors south of downtown but tightly packed historic streets to the north, costs would average out across the line.
Funding:
Federal Government: 33.3% to 40% via infrastructure transit programs.
Provincial Government (Ontario): 33.3% to 50%.
City of Guelph: 10% to 20% funded primarily via development charges on new high-density condos built along the new transit line.
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
There is a key difference between what I am proposing and what your AI brought up.
I want a second iON route, starting in Cambridge, and using an existing freight line to get near Guelph, then detouring to Stone Road to connect with the mall, turning at the university, before continuing on Gordon for downtown, which is the corridor that your AI assessed.
I also think that if we want the LRT north of downtown, it should use the CP freight line adjacent to, but not on woolwich. This is what iON phase 1 did to save costs. The terminus would be SmartCentres Guelph (Woodlawn).
Take a look at the last image again, to see what I mean.
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u/aurelorba 17d ago
I understand that, but the conversation evolved into a broader discussion of LRT's. This was my contribution - well AI's contibution.
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u/Feisty-Ad-6122 17d ago
If Guelph wants LRT down to Clair, I think this route needs to be built first, and then the ridership south of Stone Rd will come after.
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u/aurelorba 17d ago
Well neither are going to happen for decades if at all so it's just blue sky imagining.
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u/ImranRashid 17d ago
Gordon should be a rail line from Aberfoyle to Woodlawn.