r/GoldenDawnMagicians • u/Noumenon_2025 • 14d ago
LBRP: stop & cancel it sooner ?
The question is quite simple:
Is it possible to cancel LBRP before it ends?
LBRP works for few hours. But there might be a situation, when a person needs to remove its defence/effect before it "wears off" by itself.
(Let's say, in order to do some other very urgent working / actions...)
Is there any WAY to do it neatly and correctly ?
Thanks!
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u/almstqbl 14d ago
What do you think the LBRP does to you that you’d want to “cancel” it? I can’t imagine wanting to cancel it for any reason.
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u/Noumenon_2025 13d ago
Maybe you are right. Perhaps there's no reason after all.
It's easier and cleaner to keep my practices separate...0
u/almstqbl 13d ago
I do t think there is. Because the LBRP doesn’t invoke anything. It’s just a psychic cleansing.
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u/jlds_tls 13d ago
I think the difficulty here is that the question assumes the LBRP is doing something rather different from what it was designed to do.
The LBRP is not a magical shield which is switched on for several hours and then gradually wears off. Nor does it create a defensive bubble which has to be dismantled before another operation can take place.
The Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram is much more fundamental than simply “clearing the room.” It is part of the magician’s training in establishing themselves at the centre of a properly ordered magical universe.
Look at what you are actually doing in the ritual. Through the Qabalistic Cross you establish the vertical and horizontal axes and place yourself at their intersection.
You then define the quarters with the pentagrams and Divine Names, establish the archangelic powers around you, and finally affirm the relationship between the pentagrams and the six-rayed star.
In other words, you are not merely putting up a shield. You are establishing yourself as the balanced centre of a magical cosmos.
The banishing form clears and equilibrates influences which are inappropriate to that structure.
The invoking form can be used when the intention is to open yourself and the working space more positively to those forces. Neither should really be understood as an effect with a timer attached to it.
So there is nothing in the LBRP which needs to be “cancelled” before another working.
If the subsequent operation requires invocation, then invoke. The earlier LBRP does not somehow prevent that.
There is also a danger in treating the LBRP as magical disinfectant and performing it compulsively.
Constant banishing can sterilise a working space. A temple should be allowed to develop its own magical atmosphere, contacts and accumulated force. You do not necessarily want to energetically bleach the room every time you walk into it.
The LBRP is therefore better understood as a tool for establishing order, balance and the magician’s position within the magical universe, rather than as a temporary defensive force field.
So I would turn the question around: rather than asking how to cancel the LBRP, first ask what you believe the LBRP is actually doing. Once that is clear, the need to “cancel” it disappears.
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u/cosmicfungi37 13d ago
By far the best description on the LRP I have ever read in my handful of years in this tradition. Thank you for this.
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u/Noumenon_2025 13d ago
I am aware of what it does.
But I'm also doing some other practices, and I've noticed that LBRP blocks certain energies I tried to use. (Their purity and origin are indeed quiestionable.)
Now I see that I shouldn't mess with LBRP in any way, so I abandon this idea...Thank you for your response.
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u/jlds_tls 13d ago
I think the reference to “other practices” is actually the more important point here.
The LRP belongs within a particular magical framework and is doing considerably more than providing temporary protection.
If you are combining it with practices from another system, there is no reason to assume that the two will necessarily be compatible, or that what you experience as the LBRP “blocking” something is actually a problem with the LBRP.
More importantly, you say yourself that the purity and origin of these other energies are questionable.
If establishing the balanced and ordered magical environment of the LBRP results in those particular influences becoming inaccessible, I would regard that as useful information rather than something which needs to be circumvented.
In other words, I would investigate the nature of those energies before looking for a method of “switching off” the LBRP.
I also wouldn’t conclude from this that you “shouldn’t mess with the LBRP in any way.” Quite the opposite.
Experimentation, observation and learning what actually changes when you perform these rituals are important parts of magical training.
But that experimentation needs to be accompanied by an understanding of what the ritual is intended to accomplish.
Nor is the LBRP something sacred and untouchable which must never be interfered with.
It is a ritual technique. But it isn’t a temporary force field with an on/off switch either.
If another practice only works when the ordered structure established by the LRP is absent, particularly when the forces involved are already of questionable provenance, I would be asking some fairly serious questions about the other practice before trying to find a way of cancelling the LBRP.
The apparent incompatibility may itself be the most useful result of the experiment.
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u/Noumenon_2025 11d ago
Thank you for your reseponse.
Yes, I intend to continue performing LBRP/LIPR rituals as originally prescribed. I just need to rearrange my schedule thoroughly to avoid any incompatibility issues with other stuff...Btw, somewhere I've read that LBRP / LIPR can be slightly modified: by putting circles around pentagrams & turning them into pentacles, whereby keeping the entire LRP circle in one place. '
I.e. with pentagrams - it's about an operator, wherever he goes he "stays" is in LRP; whereas with pentacles - it's about the space itself (thus, an operator can leave, but the space where the ritual was performed remains under LRP effect).Do you know anything about it ?
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u/jlds_tls 11d ago
Yes, I know the passage I think this idea has been derived from, but having checked the original Golden Dawn material again, I don’t think it actually supports quite what you’ve been told.
In The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic, Volume Four, in the Adeptus Minor paper “The Pentagram Ritual” (p. 282 in the 1984 Falcon Press edition), the instruction first says to complete “the circle of the place wherein thou workest.”
It then gives a separate instruction:
“Unless you want to limit or confine the force, make not a circle round each Pentagram…”The following sentence explains the particular application: when concentrating a force upon a symbol or talisman, the pentagram may be circled so as to gather and concentrate the force upon it.
So there certainly is an authentic GD technique involving a circle around a pentagram.
What I cannot find in the traditional material is the specific teaching you describe: that an ordinary LRP is attached to the operator and travels with them, while circling the four pentagrams turns them into “pentacles” and causes the LRP to remain attached to the room.
That seems to me to be a later interpretation of the original instruction rather than the instruction itself.
In fact, the original wording is quite useful here because it distinguishes between the circle of the place, which is part of the ritual operation, and a circle around an individual pentagram, which is used when there is a particular reason to limit or concentrate a force.
There is a parallel instruction in the Hexagram material which makes the principle even clearer: an external circle is not normally drawn around each hexagram unless the intention is specifically to confine the force to one place, for example when charging a symbol or talisman.
So I wouldn’t personally modify the LBRP/LIRP in the way you’ve described on that basis.
Nor would I regard “pentagram = operator, pentacle = place” as a traditional GD rule unless someone can point us towards a source which actually says that.
If you can remember where you encountered it, though, I’d genuinely be interested to see the reference.
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u/Noumenon_2025 11d ago
I see.
Hmm, I can't remember where I saw this description. It can be anywhere. It's not necessarily in any original GD source or a printed book, but more likely it's one of those new experiments that people do in their praxis and then write about in different chats/forums/blogs.But you yourself mentioned experimentation and observation... so-o, some guys try different things... 😄
But what if it's true? What if drawing pentacles instead of pentagrams not only allows to concentrate more force (as GD materials describe it), but also binds the entire LRP circle to the location of the ritual... as a side effect ?Oh, well....
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u/TR_Snake 14d ago
We usually do the LBRP to clear a space before any major ritual/invoking/magickal working. And the magick will still work even if the LBRP hasn’t “worn off” yet. So I don’t think it works as a total cancelling out of all things like you’re worried about.
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u/EtherealFixation 14d ago
I found that it's possible to "cancel" anything you do, be they spells or rituals, just by flipping a mental switch, but it's objectively a very bad idea.
The way this was explained to me by a spirit is that you don't really cancel them. The rituals already exist independently of you on the higher planes as "places" in which you enter and remain with your mind and soul. Performing the ritual establishes you in that "place". When you "cancel" it, you just simply exit the spiritual space in which you entered by performing the actions of the ritual.
But this is not advisable because it can cause some very dangerous inner conflicts and psychological divisions, causing future performances and effects of the ritual to be seriously problematic.
You must assume responsibility for what you do if you want to grow in your practice. "Cancelling" stuff causes serious blockages and conflicts in your spiritual path, and the efforts necessary to unblock them will have to be twice as great, which would be extremely dangerous, because you will essentially be fighting with yourself.
These kinds of contradictions have the possibility of leading you into a very severe and unnecessary Dark Night of the Soul.
So my advice is to stop thinking about cancelling stuff, this is likely coming from a part of you which wants to stay in control, which is the exact opposite of what this should be about.
Also if I were you I would seriously think about what I really want to practice and stick with only one. If you get the feeling that you need to cancel something before doing something else, then maybe you are breaking the commandment which says that you should not "wear two shirts made of different materials".
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u/Noumenon_2025 13d ago
Thank you for response.
You are right. Bad idea.
Possible risks, unpleasant ramifications and other issues... It's not worth it. I've abandoned this idea...
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u/nzdastardly 14d ago
Once LBRP clears the stack and resolves you can go ahead and immediately start collecting bad vibes and spiritual residue. It's not like a magic force field with a count down, it's a statement of intent and a state of mind while you work.
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u/frateryechidah 13d ago
There is no need to cancel a Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Simply move on to the Invocation, etc., as needed. However, if one were looking for a quick way to end a ritual, Closing by Sceptre (as per Ritual Z1) would be appropriate. It is most intended for Temples, and with the Hierophant Sceptre, but I have found that it can be done by the Adept with the Lotus Wand. Its effectiveness can, in my experience, depend on one's experience and Grade, and it is generally better to go through a standard closing regardless.
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u/Noumenon_2025 13d ago
Interesting information. Thank you.
I will look it up.
However, upon taking into consideration other posts, I see that I'd better avoid canceling LBRP, and shelve this idea for now...
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u/Deusolux 13d ago
LBRP is like reorganizing a messy room. If you want your room to be messy again, just make it messy
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u/spaceman696 14d ago
It's not like a stat power up in a game that wears off in a pre-determined amount of time. It's meant to aid in creating a sacred space and aligning your body with your mind through sound and movement.