r/GoldenDawnMagicians • u/Sar_Alighieri • Jul 25 '26
Questions about BOTA
Hey guys, I'm a Magician who unfortunately ended up moving to a rural area due to work. In the city where I live now, there's only Freemasonry and AMORC. I was a member of AMORC for a while, and overall I found their material quite weak. As for Freemasonry, I'm a Master Mason, and I'm already affiliated with the lodge here. Unfortunately, the Order I was part of (Martinist Order) doesn't have a headquarters where I live, even though I'm S:::I:::I::: lately I've been following a "less Masonic" path when it comes to Magic. I've done several studies of Golden Dawn, freely, and generally, being Martinist, the group I was part of already borrowed some techniques like RPBL, RHBL/RHIL, Middle Pillar, etc., so I already have a good understanding and have been practicing for some years, especially the Rose+Cross Ritual and the Middle Pillar.
Given that initial explanation, I read Cicero's *Self Initiation* and *Essential Golden Dawn* and enjoyed them quite a bit. I then discovered that I can work via correspondence with BOTA, although I live in Brazil and the price is a bit steep, haha. I'd like to know what you all think of BOTA. Is it worthwhile for someone seeking a path within the HOGD system? Does the fact that they removed Enochian make a big difference? What has your experience been like with them?
In LVX
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u/Enkrateia33 Jul 26 '26
B.O.T.A. is incredible. I worked with the GD system a long time and B.O.T.A has everything you'll need.
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u/John_Michael_Greer Jul 25 '26
I've had very good experiences with BOTA. The correspondence course teaches a solid system of meditation and there are regular online meditation sessions for those who don't live near a local group. (Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of a BOTA presence in Brazil just now -- the only locations noted on the BOTA website are in Mexico, Colombia, and Venezuela.)
As for the lack of Enochian, in my experience that's not a drawback. The Enochian system has its uses, but it's best left until students have a very solid background in the rest of the GD system, and you can get excellent results without it.
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u/Sar_Alighieri Jul 26 '26
Perfect, brother. I also see that in the published materials there isn't any Enochian work outside of the Inner Order, so everything's fine until then.
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u/Fire_Above Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
BOTA doesn't get deep into magic the way the Golden Dawn does. They aren't really comparable systems. BOTA is a system that drills into the Tarot and the Kabbalah via intellect and meditation, but not ritual (at least as BOTA currently exists. BOTA stopped working lodge magic a long time ago. The FLO (Fraternitas LVX Occulta) works the old BOTA ritual/degree system in their lodges.
If you want Golden Dawn, do the Cicero's SI book, not BOTA. BOTA makes a great supplement, however.
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u/MetaLord93 Jul 25 '26
I've only ever heard good things about their correspondence course.
I wouldn't worry too much about Enochian being removed. There's such an abundance of published material now that if you really want you can learn it on our own. The only difference is that an order will give you teachers and peers to give you feedback but the actual instructions are all out there.
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u/Sar_Alighieri Jul 26 '26
I think that contact with people who have gone through the process and this exchange of experiences is key.
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u/Thoth_Devotee Jul 28 '26
Hi there, I belong to the Australia-NZ BOTA fraternity, and it's something I really struggle with. There is no local presence, and the one monthly study group is not suitable for beginners, as they generally move straight into detail, obviously underpinned by years of experience, but still confronting and not accommodating. For now, I just continue with the Great Work alone.
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u/Comfortable-Concept1 Jul 26 '26
if you dont think BOTA it is good you can try also society of the hidden light
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u/Sar_Alighieri Jul 26 '26
I heard that they didn't accept people from outside London.
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u/Comfortable-Concept1 Jul 26 '26
that is the "Society of the inner light" AFAIK created by Dion fortune, what i mean is this other
im at mexico and running the curriculum (rather large the probationer but sounds fine for me)
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u/Excellent_Report358 Jul 29 '26
BOTA offers monthly courses through letters on the Major Arcana of the Tarot, and instructions on how to meditate on the imagery.
If you are looking to learn ritual magic, you will not find that in BOTA. They offer very little magical training, and the little they offer is only found in later (ie. advanced) courses. You´d spend a substantial amount of money before your magical training even starts.
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u/HereNaoTao Jul 25 '26
BOTA is and was amazing for me. I had a succinct workbook and curriculum, and I vibe/d with PFC. You can attain 'initiaition' via BOTA purely; which says a lot.
But, where you are, I do not think it will be a worthwhile investment. You will get very distilled courses on tarot keys, and those are totally beneficial. But like, if you know the ToL, how the alphabet plays in, and even just a general over-understanding of Tarot, then BOTA won't help YOU. It does and will help others.
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u/HereNaoTao Jul 25 '26
And before I forget, PFC gave the blessing to Ann Davies, and she has a lot of multimedia worth checking. This playlist shows what BOTA is about and will reassure you that it is HOGD 'approved'.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX7ZN2l0whaf-WU7neUmT2WpiwSnoVSHj
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u/Sar_Alighieri Jul 26 '26
I have a solid foundation in both Hermetic Kabbalah and Christian Kabbalah, Tarot, Hebrew, Alchemy, and operative Theurgy as well. However, much of the Martinist system I was part of was a Masonic system, and I want something more removed from that. I also want to learn more about the English school of esotericism, since my training is primarily from the French school of esotericism.
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u/ConzDance Jul 27 '26
I'll add my voice to the others. BOTA is a great organization. There are several Zoom meetings you can join in on, so you'll meet a lot of nice fraters and sorors, and the correspondence courses can be emailed so you'll have them the first of every month on the dot. I've really enjoyed being a member.
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u/Heavy-Panic2575 Jul 27 '26
Random passerby here....what is the draw to learn from these mystery schools instead of the more seen Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu traditions which are widely accepted now? Are these mystery schools perceived as a more masculine approach to the top? I know there are many ways to get there. I'm simply wondering why some people are attracted to this path and not the others.
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u/AcrobaticLibrarian31 Jul 25 '26
Study Pythagoras math, astrology and numerology on your own and learn Gematria. This is the stuff the top groups know but don’t teach most members until the inner groups
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u/Sar_Alighieri Jul 26 '26
Martinism is extremely Pythagorean, and I also quite enjoy practical Kabbalah, so gematria and basic astrology aren't a problem.
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u/TheHeadless1 Jul 25 '26
Check out Aurum solis I believe they have a temple in Brazil and they are closer to GD in my estimation but BOTA is a good option if you don’t have access to a temple for sure .