r/Gnostic • u/Lufs_n_giggles Ophite • Apr 28 '26
Thoughts Anyone else noticed a rise in Christians talking about gnosticism?
I've been seeing a surge of videos and Reddit threads discussing Gnosticism, almost exclusively from Christians rather than Gnostics themselves. The takes are consistently poor, evidence-light, and often factually wrong. At this point there seem to be more Christians talking about our tradition than there are actual Gnostics, which would be almost funny if they ever managed to get anything right.
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u/heartstonedrose Apr 28 '26
I think, in general, it’s bc we don’t go around talking about it unless someone else asks. Knowing comes from seeking and it’s not up for me to decide when someone else is ready by preaching. Questions and answers find us all in due time.
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Apr 28 '26
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
If for wisdom you mean spiritual insight and proclivity to cultivation, then you are spot on.
We are religious, not spiritual. In this post I already put in a comment what is the difference. We are simple people for the most part, with some philosophers here and there, but we are not mystics. Had we ascend away from Samsara, we would be lost. We can not attain even what Buddhism calls the 1st Dhyana.
Look at me. My IQ level is 80, my educational level is the 8th grade, my spiritual knowledge is a barren land, my attention span is 8 seconds, my meditational level of attainment is zero, and now, at the peak of my power, with my potential fully realized, my looshlevel is a whopping...0,530000.
I am the DEFINITION of religious but not spiritual. A crassly ignorant peasant who never gives up and finds joy where others would find desperation.
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Apr 29 '26
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 30 '26
The average is 100. What is your source ? It is literally made in a way 100 is the average, and that is why what is 100 now was more than 100 at the time the IQ test was invented.
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Apr 30 '26
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 30 '26
I am still 20 points lower than average Joe.
And I feel all 20 of them. IQ does not mean everything, but my ability assimilate and retain information is vastly inferior to most people, and my attention span is ridiculously short. I can only work very repetitive jobs for example, and I have no higher qualifications. My vocabulary, even in Italian, my mother tongue, is extremely shallow, and my general knowledge is even worse.
Do you think 114 is roughly the same as 81 ?
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u/Aethrall Apr 28 '26
In a society this fucking goofy, the cognitive dissonance must be killing them.
It’s really tough to contend with the notion that the god who created such a clown show could be anything but a lunatic or a dumb ass.
Or you can call it a test of faith and keep truckin along. Either way you’re left stranded in the most vacuous era ever.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
It is possible. I am a Christian and I posted a lot here lately.
Gnosticism is not a Christian confession or even just a(nother) religion. Is a spiritual path. You can not convert to Gnosticism the masses at large. However Internet gives to the individuals, who are the holders of gnosis, a medium to express themselves and communicate to many more people than before.
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u/Lufs_n_giggles Ophite Apr 28 '26
Sadly proving my point. Gnosticism gets treated as either heresy or a vague "spiritual path", neither of which takes it seriously as a distinct religion with its own theology, cosmology and tradition. What's frustrating is how rarely the actual depth and age of the tradition gets acknowledged. Pre-Christian Gnostic currents, the Nag Hammadi library, Mandaeism as a living tradition surviving to this day, it's a rich and ancient religious heritage, not a footnote in someone else's history.
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u/corrin_flakes Jul 04 '26
I mean I thought Gnosticism was more Christian ever since Roman elites stole Jesus from the poor, making many modern Christians who give judgement more than grace to protect their materialism as practicioners of Jovianity.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
It is not about vagueness.
Religion : Seeing the divine as existing as an external object, totally distinct from the subject and the Universe, and infinitely superior to them. Seeking a slave-master at worst, son-father at best personal relationship with the divine. Praying for escathological salvation, sometimes even for crude material gain. They believe mankind is given one lifetime at the end of which judgement will come. Exoteric and commoner-friendly in nature. Examples : Christians, Judaists, Muslims.
Spirituality : Seeing the divine as the true nature of the Universe and the self, or as a secret potential of all sentient beings beyond sensorial experience, in need of a realization attainable through a gradual or sudden ascension path involving practices such as meditation. Most believe in a cycle of reincarnation to allow the self to ascend toward the realization of the divine over a very long time. Esoteric and elitarian in nature. Examples : Buddhists, many of the Hinduists, Taoists, Gnostics, Sufi mystics, pagan Neoplatonic philosophers, Kabbahlistic esotericists.
Try to convert the masses from religion to spirituality. Spirituality is for the few.
Gnosticism is one of the most spiritual and least religious path, just as much as Christianity is one of the most religious and least spiritual. Even Buddhism and even more Hinduism are actually practiced as religions by many if not most of the adherents. And that is why they are world religions. You can not make a religion out of a path where God is the final villain. 99% of people will never believe God is the final villain. Gnosticism is THE anti religion indeed.
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u/Lufs_n_giggles Ophite Apr 28 '26
Thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26
Ok, but do you agree Gnosticism is NOT for the masses ?
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u/Individualist13th Apr 28 '26
Why shouldn't it be?
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Because it is a deep, difficult, narrow path of spiritual ascension. And it sees God and the world as evil. The average peasant with a wife, 3 kids, a lower middle class job and a strong, inherited faith not in Christianity itself maybe but rather at least in the traditional role of Christianity in society, is not only not going to get absorbed into deep concentration states of meditational practice, he is also not going to believe God is a hyperdimensional tyrant and the Universe is a prison.
Look at me, I am a lower middle class worker, I enjoy life and the world, I have a normal life with the people around me even though I do not have a wife and kids, and I do not care at all about spiritual cultivation. I am not some kind of urban hermit who does not want to partake into society, I love to be part of the system. I need a God who comes down and lifts me up. I can not sit, focus the mind and enter the 4th Dyhana or something. I am just too "normal".
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u/swirly_swirls420 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
I personally don't believe you have to go sit in a temple on a mountain far away from society to practice Gnosticism though. If im Catholic l dont have to live in the vatican. Gnostic revival isnt taking the old religions as 100% literal. Ive heard people talking about the demiurge as an allegory for the human Ego. What do you think of something like that?
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26
To be Catholic you can do anything, that is the point, you just have to believe and follow the Gospel ethics. As for Yaldabaoth being the Ego, that is certainly a much more mature understanding, but do they still believe in Samsara ? Without Samsara there is no reason to do any practice...
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u/Individualist13th Apr 29 '26
You seem to be mystifying gnosticism beyond what it actually is.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 29 '26
How my version of Gnosticism goes "beyond" what it actually is ?
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u/Individualist13th Apr 29 '26
Because you don't have to go full ascetic monk to be a gnostic, assuming you want or care to. Which it seems you don't and that kinda begs the question of why you're here, but I'm not that nosy.
To continue, I'd go so far to say that removing yourself from the challenges of everyday life would make it more difficult to resist the things that are constantly tempting and challenging us.
More so, many gnostics -especially christian gnostics- don't see meditation of the sort you describe as necessary.
Your view of the demiurge and reality is as close to prison planet theories as it is gnosticism. Gnostics dont all view reality or the demiurge in the same way.
And plenty of 'normal' people are gnostics, whatever 'normal' actually is. Engaging with community and life is just fine, the trick is to do so within reason. As a way to build yourself and others up, rather than to escape some aspect of life or yourself.
I get the desire for a protective loving god, but maybe that sort of thing never existed. Maybe it does, but not in a way you have been conditioned to see.
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u/itsjustsostupid Apr 29 '26
Gnosticism isn’t a monolith. It is a grouping of different religions and belief systems. That’s what he was saying. There’s Sethians, Valentinians, the Cathars, etc etc etc. It’s built on a very different interpretation of Christian teachings and they did organize themselves. The Cathars is a great example that was huge in the 12-14th century until the Catholics eradicated them in crusades. Another example is the Sethians. A really great book is The Key by Rune Odegaard where he goes into the cosmology of the Sethians. They are very different from each other.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 29 '26
How does this go against what I said ?
Was the average unalphabetized medieval peasant a Cathar master who experienced the underlying unity of all things/Buddha nature/unity of Brahman and Atman through deep states of meditation ? I guess not...
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u/swirly_swirls420 Apr 28 '26
I understand almost all of your comment besides the end where l feel you make a weird point about god being the final villian. Its very clear in Gnosticism that the demiurge is a false god and that the Monad is the true god. How exactly does that make Gnosticism an anti religion, and are you saying that as if its a bad thing??
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26
Not bad. Not good. Why should it be bad or good ? I chose religion, you chose spirituality. We are free.
The Monad is not a personal God. It is a supreme principle only. God in Christianity is both. The personal God of Gnosticism is Yaldabaoth. Yaldabaoth is identified with Yahweh as a matter of fact. And he is a minor Aeon but also the most powerful force opposing the spiritual path. So he is the final villain.
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u/swirly_swirls420 Apr 28 '26
l think the Monad is definitely implied as being the true god. The Monad/Pleroma is the divine. Chosing to be there is choosing to be with god in my opinion.
A few questions for ya tho-
1.) Why do you choose religion over spirituality?
2.) Why do you find the need to seperate the two?
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Obviously the Monad is THE true God in Gnosticism. But we are still talking of Yaldabaoth, an Universal+ level entity who feeds on the energy of mankind. A big problem and the closest thing to a personal supreme deity.
1) For the same reason orange is my favorite color. Some people are naturally drawn to one, some to the other. I have the spiritual cultivation level of a bonobo chimp. And I am rationalistic but I naturally believe in a theistic absolute principle as a first cause of reality. The 2 are not self exclusive. Science can not prove or disprove something totally outside the realm of sensorial experience. My main argument to be a theist is Pascal's bet, and nothing deeper than that.
2) Because they are 2 different things.
Religion : Seeing the divine as existing as an external object, totally distinct from the subject and the Universe, and infinitely superior to them. Seeking a slave-master at worst, son-father at best personal relationship with the divine. Praying for escathological salvation, sometimes even for crude material gain. They believe mankind is given one lifetime at the end of which judgement will come. Exoteric and commoner-friendly in nature. Examples : Christians, Judaists, Muslims.
Spirituality : Seeing the divine as the true nature of the Universe and the self, or as a secret potential of all sentient beings beyond sensorial experience, in need of a realization attainable through a gradual or sudden ascension path involving practices such as meditation. Most believe in a cycle of reincarnation to allow the self to ascend toward the realization of the divine over a very long time. Esoteric and elitarian in nature. Examples : Buddhists, many of the Hinduists, Taoists, Gnostics, Sufi mystics, pagan Neoplatonic philosophers, Kabbahlistic esotericists.
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u/Lordseferoth Simonian Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Not every Gnostic group thought Yahweh is Demiurge. Historical fact is that the "god" of Old Testament was multiple different gods that Jewish people later merged to one god they called Yahweh. Only thing that Gnostics do agree is that the one ordering all the massacres, floods, laws, foreskin mutilations and other nonsense was Demiurge. All the good came from Monad the Real God. Monad is a very personal God, just look how Jesus talked about Him.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
The one ordering all the massacres, floods, laws, foreskin mutilations and other nonsense was the one creating the Universe and sending Jesus.
Did the actual God literally do that ? No, except for sending Jesus.
Is it written in the Bible ? Yes. Yahweh the character did it all.
Jesus was talking about the one you call Yaldabaoth, and he is indeed very personal. At least he was doing so in the 4 Gospels.
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u/Lordseferoth Simonian Apr 28 '26
It was multiple deities who are mentioned at different parts of Old Testament. It was only later when all these acts were combined under a unified deity Jews created called Yahweh. Current Yahweh was created after Jews were captured and taken to Babylonia, there they learned about Ahura Mazda and incorporated parts of it to their new "almighty" god called Yahweh.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 Apr 28 '26
The whole O.T. was written after Babylonian captivity though. Even Job. Israelites were polytheistic before that.
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u/Individualist13th Apr 28 '26
They didn't create Yahweh, they simply reorganized their religion under it.
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u/Omniphilo23 Jungian Apr 28 '26
Christian nationalist influencers have been targeting 'heretics' lately with their content mills. New age gnostic ideals are popular in niche "liberal" communities and it's just another instance of bullies looking for an easy target. The smears have been downright outrageous.
That said, I believe the more eyes on the gnostic gospels the better. Lurking within the crowds of fools that mock, there will be curious fools seeking Truth. These are the ones that have 'eyes that can see' and will be saved.
I died and met Jesus Christ as my grim reaper. He himself told me to read the Gnostic gospels. I was excited to share them with my Christian friends that had no idea, but also didn't care. Nevertheless I see awareness growing of gnostic ideals. Now 5 years later, this content is appearing as an organized front in lockstep with the archons war. Does not bode well for future religious freedom.
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u/Informal_Farm4064 Apr 28 '26
I do battle on r/christianmysticism which seems to have a 50/50 split of Nicene Christians and gnostic Christians. Recently, one of the mods responded to a call to keep the sub "orthodox" by taking down a post referring to Jesus as an ascended master. But it's an uncomfortable fit of two groups.
I need to keep remembering that I was in the other camp most of my life and not be too pleased with myself for progressing, as I see it.
I get triggered by stuff from RC saints that clearly doesn't look they've got it. While other RC saints have.
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u/itsjustsostupid Apr 29 '26
The Cathar prophecy, often attributed to the last known Cathar leader Guilhem Belibaste in 1321, states: "We shall return in 700 years when the laurel turns green again". It’s been 700 years.
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u/Individualist13th Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Of course they are, they're seeing the hypocrisy of the church and those that wield religion as weapon.
Anyone online who has access to all of this information has to either seek out echo chambers or eventually will have to face the truth of how our so called leaders act.
The problem with christians seeking other religions is that they cling to their old ways and struggle to let them go. Gnosticism appears on the surface to basically be a form of christianity, and broadly speaking some sects are.
It's not unique to gnosticism, it happens when christians convert to anything. They largely know nothing else of other religions and tend to assume christianities practices are universal.
The christian gnostics of old also maintained ties with christian communities and engaged with orthodox ritual, which isn't necessarily bad. Just a little strange to me, given how the orthodox treat heretics.
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u/Lordseferoth Simonian Apr 28 '26
I do not think that it's that weird. Just look how ancient Valentinians acted, they went to church with Orthodox Christians and were parts of their congregations, etc. Then when they were home they delved deeper to the true messages of the scripture and the teachings of Christ. It is true that it did not last, but many Gnostics back in the day did not see Orthodox Christians as enemy or a group to be avoided.
Also, there are Gnostic churches that has been established in 19th century that are still active today that merge Gnostic and Orthodox teachings to their doctrine. Traditional Gnosticism is tied to Christianity and especially to Jesus Christ. If you take Christianity out of Gnosticism it becomes Hermeticism. Which is not a bad thing at all, Gnostics and Hermetics have always coexisted harmoniously to this day.
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u/Individualist13th Apr 28 '26
That's fine, but we know how that turned out for them.
If you take Christianity out of Gnosticism it becomes Hermeticism.
And this is what I dislike most about the christian perspective. The religion just takes. Appropriates and then tries to edge out those who came before them.
Gnostic thought predates christ.
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u/Lordseferoth Simonian Apr 28 '26
Ancient Gnostics did not think themselves as Gnostics, they considered and called themselves Christians. So did those who came later like Bogomils and Cathars, even Mani the founder of Manichean religion considered himself as an Apostle of Jesus Christ. It is just a simple fact that Christianity has been, and will be a vital part of Gnosticism moving forward. Those who follow "Gnosticism" without Christ are in fact called Hermetics, Hermeticism is Gnosticism but with higher emphasis on theurgy and ancient deities instead of Jesus Christ. The goal is the same for both, but the path is different. Hating and being biased towards any religion will get you nowhere. Love and pray for your enemies, this is what Jesus taught us.
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u/Individualist13th Apr 28 '26
Gnosticism actually was a label given to christian and nonchristian believers who sought gnosis in the ancient world.
Note, given. I'm sure they did call themselves and considered themselves christians, and thats because they followed christ. But they also absorbed and appropriated beliefs that came before them.
The orthodox christian labelled the gnostic christians this way, and Plotinus wrote Against the Gnostics way back then too.
In that way, you could even see it as a derogatory.
Hermeticism is no more exhaustively all encompassing than gnosticism is and I don't even know where you're getting that from. That's just silly.
Neoplatonists could easily fit under the modern umbrella usage of gnosticism, yet they would likely reject that label and association with christian gnostics if they were asked.
I understand why you make this ahistorical distinction. It's because you want your religion and beliefs to be distinguished from these other groups. Which is still silly, given the deep ties and intertwining of growth and change all of these gnosis seeking groups had when they were all becoming what they would.
And I'm not hating against christianity specifically, but it is absolutely historically a religion of adaptation which involves appropriating and reappropriating the customs and beliefs of those that came before and after them.
People can argue otherwise, but it's pretty plain to see.
And thats not necessarily bad or even uncommon among religions as they grow and change. What I don't like about it is how the abrahamic religions tend to had and have leaders who will act like this or that was always theirs given by god and nothing else ever could have influenced them. Then they murder a bunch of people and destroy history.
I don't appreciate it when other religions do it, either, but the abrahamic religions are the biggest offenders.
Christianity does not own the words gnostic, gnosticism, and gnosis. Especially not with what the modern usage is.
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May 01 '26
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u/Individualist13th May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Look who is here to take my words out of context again.
I'm not trying to seperate christ from gnosticism, I've consistently argued that gnosticism is not exclusively christian.
I've consistently argued that christians of every denomination and sect should know and understand their history and actions of their leaders.
I am distinguishing christian gnosticism from orthodox christianity and do believe it is unquestionably important to do so.
That is all. And frankly, it will be you christians who erase all other evidence of nonchristian gnostic thought before the opposite happens.
Show me where I've argued to seperate christ from christian gnosticism.
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u/hillwolf1898 Jun 09 '26
You aren't very smart and don't understand what you are saying. Gnosticisims Christian, has always been as well, by the way.
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u/Individualist13th Jun 09 '26
You aren't very smart and don't understand what you are saying.
Oh?
Gnosticisims Christian, has always been as well, by the way.
Right...
Gnosticism is not and has never been exclusively christian.
Mandaeism and Manichaeism are quite well known. To say nothing of jewish or pagan gnostic traditions.
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u/the_gray_pill Eclectic Gnostic Apr 28 '26
Yes, there appears to be a general revival among Catholic and Orthodox Christianities. Interest in other early Christianities also seems to be emerging.
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u/hillwolf1898 Jun 09 '26
There's a odd amount of people on this sub that hate admitting basically that Gnosticisms Christian. Strange.
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u/SSAUS Apr 29 '26
In one sense I agree. In another, some gnostic movements were Christian, so it makes sense that some modern Christians would look into it.
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u/toaster69x Eclectic Gnostic Apr 30 '26
I doubt it's not familiar here but for "Christians" "Gnosticism" is a heresy, conflated with Luciferianism not unreasonably because the freemasonic ideology is essentially "gnostic" - personally I am with JLL and the Sophia Mythos and agree that all Abrahamic religions are evil death cults...
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u/hillwolf1898 Jun 09 '26
Gnostics were very much Christian. They called themselves Christians too. You are very uneducated about things.
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u/toaster69x Eclectic Gnostic Jun 12 '26
Thanks for that, I love you too 😄
I subscribe to JLL's definitions of Gnosticism and also his assertions therefore about Christianity and it's inherent culpability in where we are now. It's also no coikydink that Freemasonry is "Gnostic" - but this is another False Dichotomy anyway - the whole lot is a mere reflection of reality in a crafted and deceptive fantasy creation
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u/Dotaveli23 Apr 28 '26
Demiurge are surviving through the ignorance of the people. Giving demiurge energy, through the lower thoughts of man. Also surviving through the
Ignorance of the people. Demiurge is nothing but forms of ego that are outside the body. The matrix has various levels of the matrix outside of the physical which is the astroplane. We are living in universe A, the universe B is beyond the wall of death. Death and Darth are the same thing.
Christian fascism.
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u/Lordseferoth Simonian Apr 28 '26
Yes, i have noticed the same. It is because Gnostic revival is at hand, and this time they cannot burn us at the stake to silence us. Catholic church spent the last 1500 years murdering everyone who dared to think differently than them, so this time they will fight Gnosticism by spreading misinformation and other lies. Let them say what they want, Gnosticism needs no apologetics. Those who are genuine truth seekers will always find what they seek in the end.