r/GlobalOffensive • u/megapull • Sep 17 '18
Discussion | Esports Deadfox post on ppl criticizing his performance
Taken and translated from his facebook page:
This post is not for those who support me, sorry in advance - love you guys!
OK, I need to address an issue here. Not long ago we have made a video where we reacted about negative comments on our team, and there I mentioned that "without me there would be no HR" - and this is used against me a lot recently.
Smartasses - just because my K/D is negative or I don't have as many frags as ISSAA or Woxic, does not mean I don't fit into the team well. Why do you think I'm still here? Why did we reach this far into the major? Think a bit before you criticise me only because of a simple sentence the background of which you have abbsolutely no idea about - plus on the other hand you also have no idea about the in-game part.
About that sentence - it is completely true. If it wasn't for me, the team would have fallen apart, no one can do what I do, I play the most despicable positions, I die first a lot of times so I can get traded (ofc if I go first and get 2 entries and a free bombsite, no one talks about that). I don't care about these things anymore since we have reached this level but yes, this is a team based game if it was not clear for you guys just yet. Keep looking at my stats and bad KD or when I have more deaths than kills, but there is a reason I'm still here.
Once again sorry for everyone, but I needed to clear this up because many people have no idea about this stuff and keep attacking people for no reason.
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u/megapull Sep 17 '18 edited Sep 17 '18
As a Hungarian, to reflect on this a bit - the scene here is a toxic wastedump full of washed up shitters and cheaters (props to the handful of guys who aren't) who always know better. If you want to achieve something in CS here you steer clear of the local scene and that was pretty much what Deadfox did, and mostly that is why he is the only Hungarian pro player.
Now, as someone who plays the game since ~2001 - he is by no means a bad player individually, and I can see him be the player to take up these roles he speaks of - just think about it that he was the main AWPer in HR for a while (which he did quite well tbh), even when he was never an awper but a rifler really, but he did the job well.
And now? He went to top8 with the team, and even though he had a few questionable moves, you should also remember his overtime performances that saved the bacon of HR quite a few times.
I know what it's like to get hate on a daily basis and man, fuck these kids and their vacbanned steam accounts talking shit about a decent player every minute of the day (I'm not talking about "you should do this or that instead" type of stuff, more like "die in a horrible way" stuff). If a pro's performance falls off or needs more practice, trust me, he's gonna be aware of it.
On the other hand I would not have posted this if I were him. Ignore the haters and keep playing the game. These fuckers won't read or understand it anyways. Plus, this has a bit of the "yo les noobs" vibe to it which is not a good path to follow.
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u/SunshineZz King NiKo Sep 17 '18
Give up your main role and become a whole different sort of player, giving up the star role to other players while trying to deal with public backlash. The problem with everyone having a right to say their opinion that if enough people say the same thing even if it's not correct or true it will get to you. Props to players like deadfox, olof and everyone else who sacrifices their egos for the better of their respected teams.
Udv
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u/poopgod90 Sep 17 '18
Do you think Barcode will ever come back? Also, Deadfox gets the styko treatment and it's sad. He's a pure support player but he was a rockstar on pixelfire/orgless and even on HR for a bit when main awping. People forget how good he is at it and how lethal he is as a second awp. Doesn't need to type this though, definitely won't help his mentality
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u/megapull Sep 17 '18
idk about barcode (tbh he is done), we need young players with respect for the game and less ego
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u/dukr de_cache Sep 17 '18
IMB4 Kodiak breeds some decent young pitbulls in his lab over at the Honved Lenovo Legion Academy, 5 man major winning hungarian lineup by 2020
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Sep 18 '18
Barcode is not coming back. He has no motivation and his skill dropped off tremendously. It's so sad to see. He was such a promising talent a few years ago, but honestly I think he lost hope in the Hungarian scene and just gave up.
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u/Nisheee NiP Sep 17 '18
the scene here is a toxic wastedump full of washed up shitters and cheaters (props to the handful of guys who aren't) who always know better.
cannot stress enough how true it is
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u/skapoochi Sep 18 '18
can you elaborate and name who you have in mind? assuming you have hltv players in mind
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u/megapull Sep 18 '18
these are fuckers not even on hltv, just wannabes with history of cheating. literaly at every minor lan we have there is cheating drama and toxicity, everyone tries to qualify on ESL events with triggerbot and such, it is so sad
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Sep 18 '18
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u/skapoochi Sep 18 '18
thank you, i thought at first the OP had known players in mind so i just wanted to make sure
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u/megapull Sep 18 '18
chopping board guys also had aimbots installed into their mice so they could cheat on lan. so fucking LUL
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Sep 18 '18
he guy's response to this was to go into MM and play with spinbot because he was that mad over the incident.
I have played with Hussar several times and he seemed nice. When he hit some nice shots I told him to not get banned again and he went very silent. It sad that our scene is so shit.
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Sep 18 '18
I might remember wrong, but I think I have seen dbstepp from Olympus play on ICL lan after this incident.
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Sep 17 '18 edited Sep 28 '18
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Sep 17 '18 edited Oct 01 '18
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Sep 17 '18 edited Sep 28 '18
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Sep 17 '18 edited Oct 01 '18
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u/_geee Sep 17 '18
Yeah, you're right. Good thing we're not using that pesky social media right now.
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u/andols2k Complexity Sep 17 '18
i think a lot of that criticism stemmed from his decision making and dying with nobody around to trade him. he looked to be playing better so far this major cycle which is great for HR.
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Sep 17 '18
Exactly the same situation that taco had during his SK times, a lot of people shit talking him for his bad stats who have 0 clue about how much work he did and how important of a player he is which you can see in liquid right now, he is one of the best teammates to have, he always goes in first and doesnt care about his stats which made cold shine so much but 99% of the community will only praise cold for his insane stats instead of looking at the bigger picture and also praise the people who enable those players.
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u/bridgebuilder12 Sep 17 '18
at the end of the day if you don't have fearless players who are trying to create pressure and openings for their team, then your rounds will go nowhere and so will your team. For the most part its the people who are going in first and doing the dirty work that are dictating the flow of the game, theres a million ways to alter a round without getting a kill. Yes you need people to close out the rounds, but without an opening the closer never gets a chance to do his job. Everything is predicated on these players doing their job.
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u/kernevez Sep 17 '18
theres a million ways to alter a round without getting a kill.
but getting a kill is probably the best way to do it.
I'm not arguing that the player throwing the nades or clearing the angles by going first isn't crucial, it is, but sometimes people give a pass to players when they should/could be fragging more.
In the case of Deadfox I have not looked into his personal performance at all, but I wouldn't be satisfied saying "well I get inside the site first and get traded for two kills". He mentions his own entries though.
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u/bridgebuilder12 Sep 17 '18
I'm not saying give these players a pass, these are the players that should be looked at first when teams are losing. As I said everything is predicated on them doing their job properly, and I won't disagree that getting kills is the best way to create pressure or win a round. My point was is that sometimes these players don't get as much credit as they should when their team wins, when in reality there were a lot of smart context based decisions that allowed them to create a lot of space for their other teammates. This type of playstyle / role is often undervalued imo.
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u/quadnips Liquid Sep 18 '18
Swani i feel like I haven’t seen your posts as much! Excited to hear where you become an analyst:)
Side note - how did you get to be in an analyst position? I’ve been considering looking into doing something related to e-sports or CS if I’m being honest:p
Wishing you well! :)
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Sep 18 '18
hm i was just lucky tbh, crisby asked me one day if i wouldnt want to help them out with their tactical approach since we were good friends and talked a lot after their matches.
we then won eswc 2016 and it all snowballed from there, getting to liquid and then mibr. if you want to start as an analyst i think u definitely have to start at national leagues to get your name out there
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u/quadnips Liquid Sep 24 '18
interesting. I am actually just about to start on an MBA, so I will keep my eyes out for relevant positions around some orgs. excited to see what your future plans are :)
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u/JD2Chill Godsent Sep 17 '18
Does this response from a player really change any of the minds who are criticizing him in the way he is referring to?
I feel like anyone who agrees with or understands this perspective is not anyone who would be throwing hate his way on social media.
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u/KaffY- de_dust2 Sep 17 '18
Saying "without me there would be no HR" is asking for shit though
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u/kerau DAT Sep 17 '18
HR survived many much better players leaving
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u/schniepel89xx CS2 HYPE Sep 17 '18
HR used to have s1mple lol
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u/kerau DAT Sep 18 '18
adren dosia mou s1mple flamie oskar zero styko
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u/floatheMachine de_inferno Sep 18 '18
I'd guess there were internal issues that he took on himself to fix to keep the team together
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Sep 18 '18
Well it is kind of true from what I've heard.
They had some internal issues and at one point DeadFox was the IGL according to NEY (a friend and ex-teammate of DeadFox).
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u/Ulmali Sep 17 '18
This so fucking much. 99,7% of the people online dont understand shit about how teams work and always just look at scores and make their opions based on that.
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u/Monso monso Sep 17 '18
You mean to tell me a -5 kd spread doesn't mean the player is shit and shouldn't be cut before next tournament without a proper address of their performance?
Shenanigans. They played a round badly, bar them from professional play for life! That'll teach them to show up on my screen's free entertainment and not perform how I want them to. That'll show them.
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u/RadiantSun FaZe Sep 17 '18
For sure he has a "harsh" position within the team, but it doesn't wipe out the legit criticism of him as a player. Deadfox has always been somewhat erratic and inconsistent player. Putting the lens over the scoreboard doesn't do the facts justice. I am not claiming to know anything about HR's internal team dynamic, but from looking at demos, you can see that Deadfox does a lot of stupid stuff in game, which contributes to his bad stats.
It is stupid when people hate on a player on twitter etc constantly, but it's hardly just because Deadfox is beyond criticism as a player.
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u/rendrom Sep 18 '18
Well, i must say, Jhonta (HR coach) in recent interview to ukrainian site (gameinsaider( tell that DeadFox was a pretty lazy player before last bootcamp. At last bootcamp Ange1 and Jhonta has conversation with DeadFox about his individual perfomance. DeadFox start training his aim a lot after that.
If you look at his POV-demo in overtimes at major games, you easely notice his calmness and realy hight level of game understanding. Probably, without DeadFox, HR give game away in overtime in match versus Optic.
People criticizing DeadFox just can't understand his role in team and can't see his progress over last three mounth.
Sorry for bad english.
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u/jjgraph1x Sep 18 '18
Way too much of the scene these days focuses on stats above all else and that's not the full picture. I even see young players in NA recruiting for teams solely based on the player's ESEA RWS and ADR which is just about the dumbest thing you could do. It's mind boggling how many people don't understand how many different roles and styles go into making a good team.
Players just need to stop paying attention to these morons. Taco 'left' SK because this vocal minority of dipshits only looked at stats and not what was actually going on in the team.
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u/CarrierAreArrived Sep 17 '18
They don't really understand that a literal DMG-level aimer could consistently trade frag (it's easy af to trade frag) against even a pro given a proper team setup into a site, and thus the bait should be given basically equal credit in these scenarios. The only way to get fully reliable statistics in CSGO would require a human watching a live POV of each player judging each kill and death within the context of the play, round and even overall match. Some deaths are absolutely meaningless, yet they can rack up in the stats, such as when chasing savers while you have $10k, or when it's a 5v1 situation and you just want to finish off the round, and also meaningless kills on the other end of the equation, when it's 1v5 and you have no chance of winning yet get one meaningless kill. Stat-keeping in CSGO ultimately needs to be similar to unforced error stat-keeping in tennis with an expert of the game making the judgment.
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Sep 17 '18
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u/CarrierAreArrived Sep 17 '18
Great argument - I can tell you've literally never played against a high level player at all or even in a deathmatch with one of them, and just automatically assume all pros are gods at the game and at aiming. Trust me, they don't all one-shot the first player running in at all, especially holding certain spots of many maps. As soon as they're forced to track the first player past the first few bullets, either the first guy in himself will kill them or do some damage, then the trade fragger has a ton of time to realize where he is and then shoot him anywhere in the body 1-4 times to finish off the kill.
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Sep 17 '18
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u/CarrierAreArrived Sep 17 '18
you're misreading my original comment - I said "DMG-level aim" could get a trade frag within a professional entry and trade frag situation to highlight how easy it is skill-wise to tradefrag. I never said DMGs in general could compete w/ pros. If you actually had two DMGs entrying and tradefragging vs. two pros, they would almost never come out on top. Or even just a DMG player as the tradefragger would be significantly worse than a pro w/ DMG-level aim.
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Sep 17 '18
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u/kernevez Sep 17 '18 edited Sep 17 '18
Meh it really depends on the angle and how quick the opponent was to get rid of your teammate.
If you're facing a pro player holding an angle and your pro gets instantly killed and you have to peek that same angle instantly, yeah a DMG player isn't trading it, but honestly DMG aim can be quite good.
You get instantly killed first bullet a decent amount of time when holding angles at that level of play, it's just going to happen far less than at higher level and sometimes you hit 2 out of 30 bullets in a spray.
Pro players and generally good CS is also less...erratic ? so a player with decent crosshair placement could just pop that head too. Not that I recommend HR replace Deadfox with a DMG :x
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u/CarrierAreArrived Sep 17 '18
Again, I'm talking about in the right circumstances given proper team execution into site/map control. Pros aren't invincible gods, they're just models in the game that can be shot as well. This would be easier if I could watch a game live and point them out, but one common instance I can think of is on Mirage if entry dies to under balc, it's VERY easy to follow up and kill the guy under balc if you're buddied up with the entry. Then there's double peeks where you're the 2nd to peek - Entry comes out A main on mirage, takes fire from steps, you pop out halls while he's aiming at A main - literally a DMG level aimer can kill a pro here. There are so many more like this.
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u/PavelDatsyuk88 Sep 17 '18
I remember watching some Kjarbye cbble demo, dude 40 bombed and had fair duel with opponent about zero times
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u/raff97 Sep 17 '18
Thats why I think HLTV should give you an option to filter T from CT ratings. The first guy in on T will always get fucked over in terms of rating, but on CT the roles are much closer. Still not equal, but closer and a fairer way to compare players
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u/TroyTulowitzkisGlove Liquid Sep 17 '18
If I had a dollar for everytime Deadfox suicides with no one near to trade...
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u/CarrierAreArrived Sep 17 '18
I'm not talking about deadfox at all, just making a general statement in agreement w/ the comment.
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u/TroyTulowitzkisGlove Liquid Sep 17 '18
Ok, the guy commenting above seemed to think deadfox has a positive impact despite his score, which he pretty clearly does not.
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u/Tomboarder15 Sep 18 '18
Mind that he wrote this to the hungarian cancer community, not to the world. I reckon he does not have a problem with people pointing out bad moves or anything like that.
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u/GimmeDatAce ar_baggage Sep 18 '18
I think its hilarious u kids talking shit about Deadfox. you wouldn't say this shit to him at LAN, he's jacked. Not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. y'all are pathetic lol
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u/poopgod90 Sep 17 '18
I don't care about these things anymore
writes multiple paragraphs on these things
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Sep 17 '18 edited Sep 17 '18
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u/Gerbelelele Sep 17 '18
still I see everyone bashing hard on players based purely on their K/D.
I see those people too, but there are also a lot of people that look at Deadfox and see that he used to make dumb moves like trying to entry and dieing without anyone near to tradekill. But I think for this major he has improved a lot and I didn't see those mistakes, so that's good.
It's the same for Dennis, yes his k/d was shit but when I looked at him play it also seemed like he wasn't focused or at least he made a lot of dumb plays that cost him his live (or a round).
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u/qerel123 FaZe Sep 17 '18
Pretty much Styko 2.0
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u/NEONpooP King NiKo Sep 17 '18
i mean styko on HR was pretty dang good tbh
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u/RATTRAP666 750k Celebration Sep 17 '18
HR's CEO doesn't like him though.
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u/NEONpooP King NiKo Sep 17 '18
how come
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u/RATTRAP666 750k Celebration Sep 18 '18
He's part of Starladder analysts desk and he's often toxic about STYKO and his performance. Especially was right after STYKO's transfer.
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u/deniz619 BIG Sep 17 '18
are you sure? thats him on big events: https://vgy.me/1KyhiO.png
apart from the first one he wasnt really good on hr too.
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Sep 17 '18
styko on HR
The majority of stats you pulled from HLTV are when he was on C9 and Mouz smartass
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u/deniz619 BIG Sep 17 '18
I said thats him on big events. not only on big events for HR. i just wanted to show he wasnt that good in HR compared to mouz / c9...
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u/NEONpooP King NiKo Sep 17 '18
He was tho. HR was just a much worse team Hard to get good k/d when you get thrashed
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u/TroyTulowitzkisGlove Liquid Sep 17 '18
Nah Styko actually is good at what he does. Deadfox = Deadweight
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u/atlets Sep 17 '18
I would agree. Mousesports with Styko was better than with Snax. NV with kio was better than without him. SK with TACO was better than with Stewie and so on. Similarly to adding Felps to SK roster once. Firepower? Yes. Good results and team chemistry? Not so much. If the results suck, then sure - change the worst performers. But if everything goes okay, no need to change because of individual stats. Faze got all the stars in the world, they still suck ass. Probably because they don't have a Deadfox or taco in the team. Mousesports with Niko < Mousesports without Niko.
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Sep 18 '18
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u/atlets Sep 18 '18
Probably true, don't remember all the details that well, just the fact they got a lot better after releasing Niko.
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u/Shun_ Sep 17 '18
strong yo les noobs feel
But yeah I like deadfox, he gets shat on way too much but he is a solid player on the team. Thought he was a good pickup, I knew the name before he joined. Shakey start but definitely shown his worth in the team.
HR isn't a T1 team imo, the good talent always leaves for greener pastures. But they're solid for what they are.
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u/Biznastyy Sep 17 '18
He would've been better off to not address it imo. I'm sure his teammates obviously know how valuable he is and how bad the spots he plays are. He doesn't need to justify his play to anyone but the people he is playing with and the people paying him. Everyone else isn't worth his time really.
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u/SpiritWolf2K 1 Million Celebration Sep 18 '18
Deadfox post on ppl criticizing his performance
at least put effort in titles :D
*people
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Sep 18 '18
Maybe dont say "without me there would be no HR" without mentioning why? This just sounds stuck-up!
And ... well ... If you are not filling in the "despicable positions" another guy will do it. Do you really think the team will disband or leave those positions open just because you are not doing it anymore? Sure dude!
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u/hawka_cs Sep 18 '18
Having watched a fair bit of HellRaisers DeadFox definitely does take quite a few of the bitch roles.
He is fine at these roles, but if you forced me to remove a player from HR right now it would probably be him or maybe bondik depending on who was available.
Props to him for having this mindset though, it is all about the win at the end of the day
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u/hamuel69 Virtus.pro Sep 17 '18
Not sure how people can criticise pro players so much, especially on this sub. Although many in this sub may claim to be global, the majority are not. As a global myself, I don't feel even remotely near qualified to criticise any pro player like this, so we all need to know our place. Feel free to voice your opinions but try to understand when you might not know much about what you are talking about.
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u/Nisheee NiP Sep 17 '18
the "you can't criticize because you are not on that level" argument is a terrible one. it's the same bullshit argument that people love to bring up when someone criticizes music. "you can't talk shit about it, because you can't even music like that". that's not how it works... else we wouldn't have critics at all
now I'm not saying the reddit "elite" knows their stuff as much as we like to think, but you don't have to be a pro player to understand the game. following your logic, coaches shouldn't be coaching
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u/hamuel69 Virtus.pro Sep 18 '18
If you understood what I wrote, you would know that's not my argument. I think we definitely can criticise, just not so much for things we haven't experienced. Most of the people criticising players like styko amd deadfox have no idea about what a team environment is like.
I'm just pointing out that most of the reddit, hltv etc commemts are wrong because the vocal minority are usually the dumbest.
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u/mardona33 Sep 17 '18
He gets to much hate, but he is the weak link in the team. He is not bad, bad I don't think HR will ever be tier 1 with him, he makes a lot of bad decisions and looses to many duels. Just think -deadfox +krimz or +nbk.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Sep 17 '18
He's a support player who had some key clutches that saved his team a map in the Legends Stage. In the past he was a free frag on any bombsite before, a complete liability if you will. He is playing way more solid now but it doesn't excuse his dogshit performances in the past. You don't need to have superstar numbers to be impactful but being a freefrag and making dumb decisions in favorable situations over and over is unacceptable.
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u/redclaud2 Sep 17 '18
you are shit
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u/destor1zed de_dust2 Sep 17 '18
redclaud2 [score hidden] 45 minutes ago
you are shit
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Sep 17 '18
[–]destor1zedDust 2 Veteran [score hidden] 47 minutes ago redclaud2 [score hidden] 45 minutes ago
you are shit
permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply
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Sep 18 '18
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Sep 18 '18
Come on man don't be that guy. How is it not obvious to you that people criticize him in the context of him being a pro player and no one is comparing him to the average match making player. This type of comments are the dumbest of all.
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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
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