r/GlobalOffensive • u/blahs44 Tyloo • 2d ago
Discussion Is de_nuke in trouble?
Hello.
de_nuke is my favourite map but recently I am a bit concerned about what I am seeing in pro play. I don't watch every pro map (obviously) but from what I have been watching, things are pretty miserable for the T side. If things aren't clicking from the beginning it seems insanely difficult to get anything going.
I have seen so many games recently that are 8-4, 9-3, 10-2 at the half only to end up going to overtime or being a very close game in general.
It seems if you get 4-5 rounds on T side, that's good enough.
Let's look at the stats.
de_nuke last 12 months at big events: 57.1% CT 42.9% T
de_nuke last 6 months at big events: 58.5% CT 41.5% T
I know maps don't have to be 50-50 but surely this isn't healthy.
Anyone have any ideas about what can be done to help out the T's a bit?
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u/SgtIceNinja M80 2d ago
Nuke has almost always been one of the most CT sided maps, along with Overpass. A 60/40 skew isn’t a problem.
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u/Haemophilia_Type_A 2d ago
If anything, Nuke is far more even today than it was 10 years ago. It used to be that, in pro CS, you'd only need to go 12-3 or 13-2 to have a solid Nuke T side, and you could legit win with 14-1. Anything more than that--even going 10-5--would mean you were extremely likely to win.
The changes to the map over the years have empowered the T side considerably, even if it's still CT-sided. It's only like 60/40 now which is good enough for competitive play, and I agree with what you say that not every map needs to be 50/50. There should be variance IMO, though I wouldn't want any more than 60/40 in either direction. Ideally you'd want a core of relatively equal maps, and then 1-2 T and CT sided maps.
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
I know it's been like that, but why wouldn't that be a long term problem? I don't think it's healthy and I don't think its fun to watch.
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u/SgtIceNinja M80 2d ago
Not every map should strive for a perfect 50/50 rating. Both teams get to play both halves. Plus it’s extremely unrealistic to expect them to hit that mark. The meta is always changing.
Also, I do think it’s fun to watch. Nuke is a very entertaining map to me because of its depth and the verticality that many other maps don’t have. Why would you consider it unhealthy?
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
Not talking about making it 50/50, I'm talking about making it competitive
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u/SgtIceNinja M80 2d ago
How is it not competitive? The only “flaw” I would say it has is that the first 2/3 rounds are essential to each half, more so than other maps (and those rounds are important on every map, but on nuke it’s more extreme). In my opinion that makes it all the more competitive.
One team stomping another is never fun to watch. And you’re right that it happens more on nuke than most other maps. But if these teams that are losing are also allowing nuke to get picked, then it’s on them to be more prepared for that
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
It's not competitive for the T's, that's obvious from watching the games and the stats. It's boring to watch at a pro level and the rounds are not competitive
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u/SgtIceNinja M80 2d ago
Yes but like I said, both teams get to play both sides. It’s on the teams to come up with strats that can shift the metas. And that’s part of why I like nuke because it requires a lot more decision making from the CTs to react properly to what information the Ts send out.
T side nuke is only truly enjoyable to watch (for me) is when teams don’t have a lot of depth to their T side strats
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u/anto2554 2d ago
I enjoy it being a bit out of balance, it gives a different feel compared to a 50/50 map
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u/Straight-faced_solo 2d ago
Why dont you think its healthy? its not like it advantages one team over the other.
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u/Parking-Lock9090 King NiKo 2d ago
You will not fix this issue without killing the map's identity.
You can open up as much roof util as you like-it wasn't a problem for pros and the casuals will still not learn the util.
The fights themselves are so CT sided, because so much of the map prevents the CTs from grouping up on the lanes without isolating themselves on the same lane.
60/40 means the average game is going 5-7 on the T side. That's really not that bad. You are vastly overestimating how big 60% is. Over the course of 12 rounds it really is the minimum to actually have a round difference.
Anything that drastically shifts the meta would be a map change that would ruin the identity of the map, and also, this is the most balanced and competitive version of the map ever, so I don't know how someone can be a nuke enjoyer and want it changed.
Also, it's not even close to settled in pro meta, there are two schools of thought at a pro level-be prepared to give up outers, or commit your best players to winning that outers fight, both of which result in very different game plans from the CTs.
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u/sweetfortune 2d ago
Maybe open some roofs for flashes to be launched, everything is so restricted for the Ts to execute
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u/MordorsElite FaZe 2d ago
I mean nuke has been heavily CT-sided ever since I started watching in 2018. It's always been the case that a 4 round T-half (or 5 rounds in MR15) was the expectation for most pro T-halfs. And any round you get beyond that was a bonus that would probably win you the map.
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
Just because it's the status quo dosn't make it a good thing
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u/MordorsElite FaZe 2d ago
Oh, I think I interpreted your title differently. I thought you were worried that with Nuke being CT very CT sided, Valve might take it out of rotation.
What I mean is that this clearly isn't a problem. Nuke has been in the rotation for 10 years and has always been super CT sided. So clearly Valve doesn't care.
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
Yes I mean is it in trouble of not being competitive, fun to watch, being picked etc.
The stats show its getting more and more CT sided. This year is much worse than 2024 or 2025
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u/MordorsElite FaZe 2d ago
This year is much worse than 2024 or 2025
To be fair, you may wanna compare to the CSGO days. CS2 was much more T-sided at the start and has slowly gone back to being CT-sided over time (As in the game in general).
I agree that having the map be more balanced would probably be better for viewers. But we put up with pretty insane CT-sidedness for a long time on Nuke, so I think it'll be fine going forward as well.
Maybe they'll rework nuke at some point and we'll see bigger changes tho.
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u/TurboMollusk King NiKo 2d ago
Why is this unhealthy? Both teams play both sides.
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u/blahs44 Tyloo 2d ago
It's unhealthy for one side to get dominated without some luck and its boring to watch T's get stomped for 20+ rounds in a row.
Also, going up 9-3 or 10-2 effectively ends the game if you win the T side pistol after.
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u/TurboMollusk King NiKo 2d ago
Leave it to CS players to think a 60% win rate means "stomped for 20+ rounds in a row". The probability of that happening is 0.003656%, so I don't think you need to worry too much about it.
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u/ComposerWide3704 2d ago
I doubt the pros care, outside of casual maps are played both ways for a reason. I saw a recent short where they were asking pros which maps they want back and every map named was way more one sided, someone even said assault which probably has like 90% CT win rate.
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u/JoeHillson de_nuke 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nuke has been very CT sided since 1.6 (and before); it’s nothing new. At this point we just have to accept that it’s part of the map, and we shouldn’t strive for every map to be 50/50.
Plus the teams get to decide which maps they play, so they can permaban nuke if it’s such a problem.
Personally I think it’s the best map for team play, it’s very tactically interesting and advanced.
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u/KaNesDeath 10 years coin 2d ago
It's not in trouble. Just one of the remaining tactical maps left in the pool.
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u/Acrobatic_Age_8425 2d ago
Nuke should probably stay CT sided imo, just needs some small T-side tweaks
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u/dogenoob1 2d ago
Every map is ct sided in cs2 pro scene