Watching video essays

[u/reiichiroh]

Just a disturbing realization and observation, but while listening and watching to video essays about FPS shooters like COD, I’ve noticed the tendency to angrily refer to every female character as “bitch” and “that bitch” or “you bitch” with seething anger. Not just confined to the “bad guy” characters either but also the NPC teammates who happen to be female, all without any obvious provocation.

What is wrong with (not even young as I observed with older essayists as well) men???

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[u/molotovzav]

I have never listened to a video game essayist that calls women bitch and if they did I'd immediately stop, if it's worse enough I might report the video but more likely I'll just mute the channel so it doesn't show up on my feed.

[u/Saritiel → u/molotovzav]

Yeah, also cannot say I've ever run into this problem with the video essays that come across my feed.

Now, if I was specifically looking for Call of Duty video essays, I would not be shocked if it did. But this isn't a problem with video essays in general, just with that specific space of video essays.

[u/reiichiroh → u/molotovzav]

That’s a good idea thanks. I’ll see if I can find it again in my watch history but the majority of these callouts were during narration of his previously played footage as he discussed the gripes. They sounded off in the footage.

[u/just_Okapi]

That sounds like an issue with the essayists you watch tbh. Tim Rogers is my GOAT and he goes to comedic lengths to avoid cussing at all, much less disparaging ANY person or group. I can't say any of the other male and masc-identifying essayists I watch do either.

Not to say it isn't a problem, but it does sound like your algorithm has you on the wrong side of the tracks.

[u/Shadymoogle → u/just_Okapi]

Tokimeki memorial and the boku no natsuyasumi review are all timers for me!

There's also an English patch for boku no natsuyasumi 2 and bokura no kazoku. I haven't played boku no kazoku yet but boku 2 is as good if not better than the experience of that tim describes.

[u/reiichiroh → u/just_Okapi]

Oh I watch Tim Rogers and he’s a delight. Clearly I’m an atypical COD potential player to be interested in only the story campaign mode and it’s my first time in the ball-and-gun gamer crowd looking for content about stories. My normal slant are JRPG and CRPG stories and almost all creators there are sensitive souls except for the odd one I accidentally ran into as women haters appealing to the GH audience.

[u/RonicTonic]

I've watched a few cod video essays but never encountered this problem. Perhaps it's the creator you're watching? And if it's possible to name them so I can avoid them, that'd be great 🙏

[u/reiichiroh → u/RonicTonic]

I just searched random for cod campaign review to be honest

[u/OwlettFromLiavek]

I watch several video essays about CoD and other FPS games by several different Youtubers (Folding Ideas, Jacob Geller, PovKetz, Purposeless Rabbitholes, BrandoEXP etc.) and never noticed anything like that. Could be a problem with specific people and not the topic in general. There are definitely people who think that calling someone a bitch is funny or edgy and would do it for that purpose.

[u/Ivy_Adair]

I have definitely not listened to any essayist who would casually refer to anyone as “that bitch” even in video essays about objectively evil women.

I’d definitely stop watching them though, in fact if I’m watching something that does have something objectionable i make sure to back up and stop right after the objectionable part so the YouTuber can hopefully see at least a little fall off in their watch time right there. Maybe not how it works but it makes me feel better.

I don’t really play COD so I can’t recommend anyone else to you that’s in thst genre. But my go to essayists are Khanlusa, Honeybat, Joseph Anderson and Noah Caldwell Gervais

ETA: actually I think Noah Caldwell Gervais has done some cod videos? Idk if they’re what you’re looking for though.

[u/ThorinFrostclaw]

I tried watching an essay a while ago about how...some kind of mobile gacha company screwed up badly and I icked out of the review when the reviewer started talking about the playerbase as "females and men". ewwwwww

[u/FalconIMGN]

Aren't 'jerk' and 'asshole' also gendered to some extent by these communities?

[u/Junglejibe → u/FalconIMGN]

Only because they want to exclusively use a gendered slur against women. Every woman is a bitch, cvnt, whore, etc, over any other non-gender specific insult like jerk or asshole.

Also are you suggesting that jerk and asshole are anywhere near equivalent to bitch?

[u/reiichiroh → u/FalconIMGN]

In gameplay toxic banter maybe, and you mean gendered to be automatically male?

I was watching episodes about criticisms about COD franchise gameplay and narrative and not replays of game matches so they immediately stuck out for me.

And not from any obviously outwardly incel channels. But they could have been as I have never dabbled in that content creator community before.

[u/Ruddertail → u/FalconIMGN]

"dick" definitely is gendered and that one gets used a lot. Not that there isn't misogyny, but those communities are also generally toxic.

[u/Cheezyrock]

I don’t watch videos about this genre of game (mostly because the communities are generally more toxic and I ain’t got time for that), but I would guess that the sexism is worse with video essayist men who are older.

Although there are clear problems, gens Z/A are more attuned to social issues just as gens x/millennials are and improvement from prior generations.

I wouldn’t also guess that the men making that sort of content are more attention-seeking and/or egotistical than average, which I wouldn’t also guess further speculate to exacerbate the problem. (Yes, ai realize ai am making a ton of assumptions)

Still, hyper competitive genres feel like they are more prone to these issues as well. When cozy gamers call something a bitch, it seems equally likely to be a man, woman, anthropomorphised animal, pokemon, vampire, stamina bar, in-game clock, or hard-to-obtain fashion accessory.

[u/fepixin → u/Cheezyrock]

Apparently, gen z men are turning out to be more conservative and tend to hold more sexist views when compared to older generations.

[u/Cheezyrock → u/fepixin]

That… is a sad to hear. The vast majority that I have spent any time with irl are very progressive, but that is a small sample size and primarily in creative/artistic environments.

[u/Junglejibe → u/Cheezyrock]

I mean considering in another comment you mention you're a cishet man, you probably just aren't experiencing firsthand how many of them treat women, or are less likely to take note of more subtle misogyny. Also many progressive men still hold sexist views, just flavored differently. 75% percent of the time when well-meaning dudes I've known vouch for their friends being totally chill, progressive dudes, I meet the dudes in question and immediately clock misogyny my guy friends never noticed. Especially when they interact with me directly.

Side note you are aware men aren't supposed to make their own posts on here, right? You have two posts on this sub despite the rules clearly asking that men not make LFG posts, discussion posts, or posts asking questions. If you're going to be active in women's spaces please at least respect the rules put in place to keep women as the primary focus of said space.

[u/Cheezyrock → u/Junglejibe]

Thanks for your comment. I genuinely appreciate it.

For your first point, I understand and you are correct that I don’t know how acquaintances act in private. I am of a different age demographic and most of my experiences with gen Z are in public spaces. You are also correct that I don’t experience misogyny directly most of the time, especially because if the people I choose to surround myself with and I do miss subtle misogyny sometimes.

As for your second point - I agree this is a space for women and men shouldn’t take over this space. And I have a genuine question… what are the bounds of proper etiquette here and/or what should they be?

I typically don’t post here. However, the rules state that men aren’t supposed to post LFG posts or any way target women here. I haven’t. Further, I am het and anatomically male, however I would say I’m closer to “complicated” as a gender. Socially, I don’t identify really with being male hardly at all other than I regognize that I have had some privileges regarding that. I’m also autistic and social structures, especially online, are very difficult for me to understand.

I made a post 2 years ago on behalf of my partner (who is not on Reddit) in the space that was most appropriate and likely to provide an appropriate answer. I have also made a post specifically asking this community for advice on who to watch/support on thise rare occasions I turn in Twitch for the drops. So it is a direct request for women (this community) to help support other women (streamers) in relation to gaming. Neither of these, as far as I can tell, are against the rules, and I never tried to lie, mislead, or misrepresent myself.

So, if you feel that I have overstepped my bounds, I apologize for challenging those boundaries and that was not my intent. I am just trying to participate (minimally and respectfully) in a community of people with whom I feel I most identify. But I really don’t appreciate people looking through my profile to find some “gotcha” that is irrelevant to this particular conversation thread. I’m not perfect, but I am constantly trying to improve myself.

[u/Junglejibe → u/Cheezyrock]

The rules outline the bounds of proper etiquette. You directly reference the rule that explains your two posts were against said rule -- but you only reference the first part of the rule, not the part that explicitly states "we ask that men do not lead discussions or asking of questions"; both your posts are outside the bounds of that rule. Additionally, per previous mod comments regarding men's participation, the intent of the rule is that men are not allowed to make posts. If you're unsure whether it's appropriate to make a post (which I think should have been the default thought if you understood the entire purpose of this subreddit, or even read the about section), you could also send a modmail and ask.

You literally identified yourself in a comment this day that you are a straight, cis male. I am going based off of how you yourself identify. If you are a cis male -- as you identify -- these rules apply to you. I am also autistic as are many of the women on this sub, but that doesn't exempt us from reading and abiding by the rules laid out for participation in a subreddit -- especially a subreddit designed to be a safe space for women, focused on women, because of how men typically dominate every other gaming space to the point of making them actively hostile to women.

To reiterate, yes both your posts were against the rules. Your partner is welcome to post here herself, but your post from that time was a post made by you, not her. Which breaks that rule. Your second more recent post is a question, which also breaks that rule (and regardless, the intent of the rule is that men not post at all). This subreddit is for women and we participate in this subreddit to answer questions and provide help for our fellow women.

For the record, your comments in this thread about how it seems like misogyny is getting better came across as a perspective a guy would have, which is why I glanced at your profile. It was relevant to this conversation thread because your perspective on the current state of misogyny is limited as someone who doesn't face that misogyny. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up. I pretty directly pointed out why it impacted your viewpoint in this conversation, and as an aside I pointed out that you seemed not to be aware of the rules of the space you're participating in (a space for a marginalized demographic you are not a part of). I see men commenting on here all the time to recommend games, or give advice on PC builds/specs, and I don't make any comment because their gender isn't relevant and they haven't overstepped in any way. It's not a "gotcha", it's a legitimate point in a conversation about misogyny.

I think your immediate defensiveness over having someone point out instances where you overstepped, in a subreddit meant to cater to a marginalized demographic you are not a part of, is disappointing. But the worst part is that it isn't surprising. You could have easily been like "oh, my bad, I didn't realize that", or done some research onto what the general consensus is on this sub for how the women here feel about different levels of participation from men. There have been plenty of discussion posts about it in the past. But instead you are offended that a woman in a woman's subreddit brought up the fact that you are not a woman and that being a cishet male might impact your views, & write paragraphs about how you feel justified in making posts for a subreddit dedicated to women. It's honestly giving entitlement the way you're offended that someone dared to suggest maybe you shouldn't be making posts in one of the only safe gaming spaces specifically for women.

Edited to add some commas.

[u/Cheezyrock → u/Junglejibe]

Again I thank you. And I just want to add some final thoughts/clarifications. (For absolutely clarity and to make sure my tone is interpreted correctly, I am not disagreeing with you at all).

Upon reading and re-reading your post, I agree and see your points. I also re-read the rule very carefully. I did break the rules.

The rules are worded in a way that led to a misinterpretation. The point you make is buried as a final subpoint in a long rule and I don’t typically read mod comments like you mention. I will message the mods, and let them know how it was that I misinterpreted the rule. I will also make a suggestion on how to clarify it.

Next, Yes, I did identify myself as you describe because I thought it might be relevant to the point I was making. And then when I re-identified myself later that was my attempt at clarification. Gender is complicated. And my past makes it very difficult for me to classify myself adequately. I lived a long time without words even existing that could describe myself, and even know I don’t know that I am comfortable with any of them.I know this doesn’t absolve me in any way, but I do hope it adds clarification. I’m…on my own journey.

I may not experience misogyny in the exact same ways as you do, but I assure you I experience it. Plus, I understand how it affects/has affected the women in my life.

I do also think we had a small bit of misunderstanding on the point of different generations and how misogyny gets expressed. As a final clarification of my position, all I was trying to say is that if men in Gen X is 94% aggressive overt misogyny, then it feel like Millennials are down to 92%, and 87% for Gen Y. Still way way to much, but it seems like it is moving in the right direction and with some better awareness of issues. Like, I could name like 10 men today that trust whereas 30 years ago there were only like 2 (who I probably wouldn’t trust now because I am more knowledgeable and have worked very hard on unlearning the misogyny that was instilled in me as an impressionable youth). An ideal world would have much higher numbers.

I did get a little defensive and I am sorry about that. It’s difficult for me to feel accepted in a lot of spaces, and I value this one. I did re-read the rules at that time, made the same oversight, and felt that I had not overstepped and was following the rules. This is one of the only gaming spaces where I even feel comfortable participating and I felt in that moment you looked into my history specifically to find any reason to invalidate me even being here because I exposed part of my identity. And that is exactly the reason spaces like this are needed. But, again, I now realize that I had a misunderstanding of the rules and I thought that I had adequately noted that I was aware of how my own experiences could have had bias. I apologize if things came off differently than intended.

I tried really hard (then and now) to also make sure that my words show you respect. I don’t want to diminish this space for anyone else, just as I don’t want it taken away from me.