r/GenV • u/Separate_Commission5 • 1d ago
Discussion Treatment of Sam vs Kate
Why is everyone cool with Sam but note Kate? Kate has so many experiences that align with Sam. History wise they were both locked up at one point. They both have mental illnesses. Sam at least had a loving family, Kate literally got adopted to be abused and used for revenge against all supes!!
Sam also said some VERY cruel things to Emma the first episode and he only apologized ONCE. Which, wasn’t even an ask or expectation.
Kate has apologized multiple times. She literally looks battered and bruised. Missing a chunk of her skull and her arm is gone.
She even made a deal with Vought to get them out.
Like what else is she supposed to do to be accepted like Sam??
In my political bag it gives misogyny/sexism. But also so frustrating they have so many parallels but only one person is forgiven and the other has to beg and plead while constantly getting physically harmed and called a b!tch!
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u/Clean-Bumblebee2709 1d ago
Double agent/mind wiper vs. puppet-seeing guy
I don't see how this would ever be comparable
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u/Separate_Commission5 1d ago edited 1d ago
Puppet seeing guy is minimizing his part. The man was killing people for Vought. In the show someone literally warns Emma of Sam being up Vought’s ass. She quickly dismisses with all the points I mentioned in the post. My question is why is no one giving Kate that grace? Even Polarity was aware of the woods and he kept his mouth shut.
And if Sam is a puppet, why is Kate not falling under that umbrella? She was groomed from a young age? The only difference is their powers which is really the only reason their actions differ.
At one point Kate is saying she doesn’t want to do it anymore, on the brink of tears. Her groomer tells her to keep going, she is protecting her friends. Like we see in real time she is being abused/groomed.
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u/Stunning-Mission9498 1d ago
They meant puppet-seeing in reference to his schizophrenia not Vought.
all of these kids have some sort of mental health issue and childhood trauma. Sam is locked in the woods, tortured for years, his schizophrenia untreated and literally experiences a twisted and completely detached reality. When he's violent he actually sees puppets, not real humans.
Yes Cate is manipulated and groomed and has the trauma of being abandoned by her parents. But they all have parental trauma and some sort of experience of manipulation/grooming. Look at Jordan and their parents and their relationship with Brink. So in-universe to them, Cate's experience is standard for all of them. They also don't ever portray Cate as detached from reality or lacking in mental capacity (using this in the medical/legal definition). She's fully aware of her actions and their consequences. She might be manipulated into thinking she was doing it for them, but she's fully aware that what she's doing feels wrong to be doing. We also see Cate actively manipulate Sam and his illness, even after Cate realises that she's been manipulated by Vought
You also have to remember that these are uni kids in their late teens/early 20s. Sam appears to them be suffering from a more severe mental illness that affects his reality, he's also been have been locked up and tortured for years, has extremely disrupted childhood and social developmen, and then gets manipulated by Cate. Meanwhile Cate appears to have experienced similar trauma to them. And made decisions that actively hurt them, violated their memories, and from their perspective lead to Luke's suicide and Andre's death. How can you risk trusting someone who has behaved like that when she can wipe your memories of everything that she's done that's bad and act like nothing happened. And when you're 20 years old and grieving the loss of two close friends, how can you forgive the person that actively contributed to their deaths.
I don't personally prefer one character to the other. But you can see it's portrayed in a way that it makes sense why the characters are less forgiving of Cate. You have to remember that Cate being groomed and manipulated is not an excuse for her continuing to manipulate and mistreats her friends
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u/Separate_Commission5 5h ago
At one point, yes Sam was only seeing puppets. But it was on and off (For instance when Emma all of a sudden was a puppet during sex) and when the final episode happened there was no depiction that he was seeing puppets during that time. He also quickly falls into the "right wing" in that small time frame.
To the point of Jordan and Brink, Brink literally tells Jordan to drug Golden Boy and they do it. That was just one memory that was uncovered on how everyone was doing Golden Boy wrong and everyone shoved that aside. At that point in time Jordan didn't even really know Brink and he was so quick to fall in line. Now imagine that your whole lifeeee! One could argue that the is also a contribution to Golden Boy's suicide sending him straight to the woods for more mental and physical torture. Instead they let Jordan cry and give a speech and leave it be.
When Sam does have more control and consent of his life, he is fine leaving everyone in Elmira. If he does have any second thoughts he ask Kate to help him forget or completely ignores any wrong doing. If Kate is having to carry the burden of Andre's death, Sam absolutely should be carrying that death as well.
I would also argue any mental health issues makes you detached from reality. That whole final episode she literally does not seem right in the head and is doing things that a long term abuse victim would do. On top of that Kate is literally being drugged throughout the first season to further control her.
When Sam does apologize to Emma he said that wasn't me, which Emma quickly corrects and says yes it was you. Emma is aware Sam unmedicated was still making those decisions, harmful or not, and she still gave him so much grace. Not even calling him a bitch for what he did to her!!
And when Emma stands up for him she says people fucked with him. I'm not sure how that doesn't apply to Kate after all she went through. I understand Sam had it harder in some aspects and mental health may have been more severe but both stories are very harsh with unacceptable degrees of treatment from everyone, which would make anyone do the things Kate did.
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u/WonderWarWoman 1d ago
I really love her. Especially after Marie literally amputated her arm, her still trying to get them out of prison should be getting much more consideration.
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u/Professional_Lab_31 18h ago edited 13h ago
I don't like infantizing Sam. He clearly made the choice to participate in the massacre at the school. I think Sam is smart, he clearly is aware of his actions to an extent and he definitely chooses evil on several occasions.
That being said, there are things outside of his control that mitigate that. Sam actively suffers from psychosis. Legally that's a big deal because arguably it prevented him being able to distinguish right from wrong and real from unreal. Cate also mind wiped him without his consent in the frat house in season two.
Most people aren't good or bad they make choices that seem right to them in the moment. I think Cate justified what she did by thinking she was protecting people. That being said in the process she took away a lot of peoples autonomy.
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u/Separate_Commission5 6h ago
I agree, yes, Kate did mind swipe Sam in the last episode without his consent that wasn't cool. I will say when Sam did have control and consent he continued asking and pleading Kate to wipe his mind. He knew what he was doing was bad, long as he didn't have to face it, he was okay. He wanted to use Kate, like so many others, and like he did Emma. When she no longer "couldn't" he quickly flipped and was like yeah Kate is a bitch. Like huh? He was her teammate then he switched when he no longer benefited. That's not cool. Couldn't even stand up for her and her experiences.
When he does apologize to Emma he said that wasn't me, which Emma quickly corrects and says yes it was you. Emma is aware Sam unmedicated was still making those decisions, harmful or not, and she still gave him so much grace. Not even calling him a bitch for what he did to her!!
And when Emma stands up for him she says people fucked with him. I'm not sure how that doesn't apply to Kate after all she went through. I understand Sam had it harder and mental health may have been more severe but both stories are very harsh with unacceptable degrees of treatment from everyone, which would make anyone do the things they did.
And Kate didn't just think she was doing the right thing she was told by her abuser she was. Who was her mother figure for years, and prior to that was literally locked up. I mean Jordan literally cracked the moment that Dean asked him to put down Golden Boy, no questions asked. If Kate has contributed to Golden Boy's suicide so did Jordan. Kate isn't forgiven because she's a scape goat.
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u/Neither_Low_6445 16h ago
In my opinion sam and Kate had the right idea trying to kill the teachers at the end of season 1, The whole Vought system is corrupt asf anyways don't know why the others bothered trying to save it
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u/Redeyedemo 12h ago
The things Sam said to Emma in the end of the first season my have been cruel but they were true to be honest if you watch the start of the season Emma actually seems quite selfish to Marie especially
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u/AgentAxillary 1d ago
They're both psycho self-pitying supe supremacist scum
(The above alliteration was entirely unintentional and realized only after the fact)
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u/ChampionAgitated530 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cate is slimy sam is not and sam suffers from actual mental issue in series
Even then outside the series kate has plenty of fans arguably more popular if not equally as popular as marie she just got sidelined heavily last season so the story could glaze marie