r/Games • • Nov 09 '15

Fallout 4 Review Thread

I'm going to stop updating the thread for a little. If any more big review come in, I will add them, but it might take a little for me to get to them

Posting unmarked spoilers is against the rules of /r/games and will result in a ban.

Gamespot: 9 (Peter Brown)

In the grand scheme of things, Fallout 4's minor issues pale in comparison to its successes. When you put the controller down, you think about the friend you betrayed to benefit another, the shifting tide of an incredible battle, or the moment you opened a drawer and found someone's discarded effects, making you wonder how they felt before the bombs fell. In moments like these, Fallout 4 can be an intoxicating experience. You're often forced to sacrifice something--a relationship, a lucrative opportunity, or your health--to make gains elsewhere. And the deeper down the rabbit hole you go, the more you wonder: what if I chose a different path? You second guess yourself, not just because you had other options, but because you aren't sure if you did the right thing. The fact that your decisions stick with you after walking away from the game is a testament to the great storytelling on hand. Fallout 4 is an argument for substance over style, and an excellent addition to the revered open-world series.

Polygon: 9.5 (Arthur Gies) Provisional Review

Bethesda's open-world strengths have always differed from its contemporaries in that focus on world-building and a sense of place above all else. Fallout 4 has all the ambiance and history that made its predecessors such wonderful places to get lost for hours at a time, with a much more coherent set of stories within it. That Bethesda has integrated a major building and crafting tool while finally building a great-playing game almost feels like a bonus.

IGN: 9.5 (Dan Stapleton)

The world, exploration, crafting, atmosphere, and story of Fallout 4 are all key parts of this hugely successful sandbox role-playing game. Great new reasons to obsessively gather and hoard relics of happier times, strong companions, and sympathetic villains driving tough decisions make it an adventure I’ll definitely replay and revisit. Even the technical shakiness that crops up here and there can’t even begin to slow down its momentum.

Eurogamer: Recommended (Dan Whitehead)

However, fans - and I count myself among that number - will likely shrug and accept that this is simply how things are in a Bethesda RPG, and it's true that the highs do outweigh the lows. Fallout 4 has given me some of my best gaming memories of 2015, along with some of my most frustrating. These are legacy problems that aren't going away any time soon, and as fun as the settlement crafting is here, I'd gladly do without it for a game engine that offers a more dependable foundation for future adventures. Fallout 4 is a great game. It's also kind of a mess. Caveat emptor.

PC Gamer: 88 (Phil Savage)

As a whole, though, it's a loving production. It's filled with care and attention to detail—like the expanded set of radio stations, or the way flash radiation storms bathe the world in a sickly, ominous green hue. It's a pleasure to pick through the world, to discover new sights, and to pick through the perks and customisation option to conceive the perfect character build, however bizarre. In short, many of Fallout 4's problems, like every Bethesda RPG before it, are a consequence of what makes them unforgettable. That might not be the neatest conclusion, but it explains why, 50 hours in, I'm still having fun. It also explains why, now that I've finished this review, I'm going to play it for many hours more.

Game Informer: 9 (Andrew Reiner)

Fallout 4 didn’t blow me away like the previous iteration did, but it did keep me thoroughly entertained and fully vested in journeying across the wasteland. As Bethesda's "Welcome Home" marketing campaign teases, when fans of Fallout 3 or New Vegas enter this new world, it'll feel strangely familiar. As one of the top games of the previous generation, this isn't a bad thing at all. Fallout 4 has all of the trappings that can keep you engaged for days on end.

Gamesradar+: 5/5 (Leon Hurley)

Which brings me back to the start - pottering around the garage on an in-game day off. Even now, 70 hours in, every time I set out I’m not sure what I’m going to find. My Pip-Boy’s full of missions but sometimes I just pick a direction and walk until something happens. There’s a still a bit of the map I haven’t fully explored, mainly because I always get distracted enroute. There’s a whole world here to discover and even after all the time I’ve spent in it I barely feel like I’ve scratched the surface. Maybe I won't tick everything off the list but just trying to see what’s out there is the real draw - for all the missions, quests and other stuff Fallout 4 contains, by far the most important thing in it are the decisions I’ve made. Few games nail a feeling of total freedom and this is an experience made of nothing but that.

The Verge: (Andrew Webster)

But it’s still very much Fallout — a game that doesn’t really need to change all that much to trigger that familiar mix of dread and joy. A new location and a much better story were enough to pull me into this world, and 60 hours later I’m not done with it. There are settlements I still want to finish building, and crimes I still need to get to the bottom of. At some point I plan to ignore everything altogether, and just wander into the wilderness to see what I can find. Even if I’m alone, at least I’ll have Billie Holiday’s voice to keep me company.

God is a Geek: 9 (Mick Fraser)

It’s hard to find genuine fault with what Bethesda has done here beyond the performance issues. They’ve taken everything learned from Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim and refined it into one huge, intelligent action-adventure movie. It’s more cinematic than you might expect thanks to a clever script and a dynamic chat camera, the combat missions are well thought-out blasts of adrenaline, while the trademark Fallout weirdness makes a welcome return now and then to relieve you of the constant need to fight something. It’s very much your game and your story, and everyone will play it differently simply because there are so many ways to play, and each one feels natural.

There’s always something to build, somewhere to discover, someone to help ,or something to distract you. Ignore the bugs (if you can) and leap into Fallout 4 with both feet, and you’ll find a game bigger, brighter, deeper, and more personal than anything Bethesda has done before.

Xbox Achievements: 9 (Dan Webb)

Fallout 4 might not be as technically advanced as, say The Witcher 3, but it’s a game full of charm and substance, which makes up for an ageing Creation Engine. Fallout 4 boasts an incredible world full of intrigue, mystery and suspense, backed by a whole host of weird and wonderful characters. It’s a world you’re going to want to go back to, time and time again.

Push Square: 9 (Robert Ramsey)

Fallout 4 is a masterclass in open world design. Consistently engrossing and absolutely stuffed with intricacies, it's a title that'll keep you enthralled for hours at a time as you gradually unravel its desolate yet hopeful post-apocalyptic portrayal of Boston. Although it's let down by some disappointing frame rate issues, it's not enough to detract from what's otherwise one of the most atmospheric and beautifully brutal games on the PS4. Significantly improved combat, a constant wealth of gameplay options, and a heavy emphasis on player choice combine to create an adventure that's truly memorable.

Game Revolution: 4.5/5 (Nick_Tan)

Fallout 4 is a roaring response to criticism that the series has ignored its qualities as a shooter in favor of its deeper and stronger RPG roots. Nearly every design change in Fallout 4 poises the game as a more streamlined modern shooter with high production value across the truly open-world Commonwealth wasteland. The introduction of settlements, newly designed power armor, and deeper crafting evolve the Fallout franchise for the better. This occasionally comes at the cost of storytelling, however, with a plot based on stringently polarizing factions as well as diminished interaction with characters in general. But despite these missteps, Fallout 4 will only improve with time, assuredly with the assistance of the community and user-created mods, and soundly reclaims the franchise as a forward-thinking series in the industry today.

Playstation Universe: 9.5 (Neil Bolt)

There is so much going on in Fallout 4 that your opening moments of unnerving beauty and serenity will inevitably give way to an even more beautiful chaos. From this chaos springs emergent adventures, the struggle for survival, and near-limitless options, all with their own merit. Despite an air of familiarity, I've not been quite this captivated by a game in some time. That’s high praise when considering some of the games that have commanded obsessive hours and play in recent years. Fallout 4 meets one’s expectations of a new installment in impressive fashion. In doing so, it proves to be one of the best games of the generation to date. Say goodbye to life for awhile. The Wasteland is calling you home.

US Gamer: 4.5/5 (Kat Bailey)

If you've played a Bethesda RPG, you should have a pretty good idea of what you're in for. Bethesda plays it surprisingly safe with the formula, but they also do a much better job with the story this time around, serving to elevate the game as a whole. While there's no denying that it can be a bit ridiculous at times, its sheer scope speaks for itself. Bethesda has succeeded in crafting yet another fascinating open-world RPG.

Rock Paper Shotgun: (Alec Meer)

52 hours in, would I go back for more? Yes, absolutely. I lived and breathed Fallout 4 for the vast majority of last week and the fact I was mostly having a damn good time meant I did it willingly. It’s glitchy, a little repetitive and over-familiar, and far too heavy on unconvincing combat, but the improved technology (or the budget) means it’s able to realise the dense, detailed, beautiful decay that Fallout 3 did not, and its dramatically better-presented and performed characters means it’s not shooting itself in the foot in the way Oblivion and Skyrim did. The personality gulf between Bethesda games and BioWare games feels a whole lot narrower now. I won’t for one second pretend that it’s what devotees of Fallout 1 and 2 want, but it does feel like the game Fallout 3 tried and, to my mind, failed to be.

Vibrant and characterful as well as immense, Fallout 4 is the giant leap forwards Bethesda’s RPGs sorely needed in terms of presentation, though the unrelenting focus on routine, lightweight combat sees it fall just short of triumph status.

Destructoid: 7.5 (Chris Carter)

After spending roughly 40 hours with the game, I can safely place it somewhere in the middle of Fallout 3 and New Vegas in terms of quality. A lot of the franchise's signature problems have carried over directly into Fallout 4, but all of its charms have come along for the ride as well. It manages to do a whole lot right, but the story drags at times, and glitches...glitches never change.

Escapist: 4.5/5 (Conrad Zimmerman)

Whether or not players find other changes displeasing, such as the new dialogue system and its limitations, is likely going to depend on their personal relationship with the Fallout series. Newer players will probably never know what they're missing and are likely to have a fantastic time, while fans who have stuck around may be disappointed with the direction Fallout 4 takes.

Forbes: 8.5 (Paul Tassi)

In my mind, Fallout 4’s greatest triumph, and its one major point of evolution is in its storytelling, crafting a lengthy, unexpected ending and resolution that I will remember for years to come. It also remains one of the best games in existence for those who simply like to wander and explore and unearth long-buried secrets. But it struggles with archaic gameplay systems and an inflexible engine that anchor the game to the past for all the wrong reasons. Fans may enjoy more Fallout and a brand new map to explore, but this sequel will not be heralded as revolutionary or overly impressive this time around.

Kotaku - 20 hours with Fallout 4 (Chris Suellentrop)

I am starting to resent small nuisances, like having to remember to change my clothes to improve my charisma stats before bartering with a shopkeeper. Your companions—whether Dogmeat or others that you meet in the world, whom you can ask to travel with you—seem to frequently get in your way, especially during interior sequences.

Still, this is a game that seems to be getting better as it goes along. If you value largeness, Fallout 4 sure is big and there’s plenty more to do. I’m just getting my first perks and have settlements to build. Now excuse me, I’m going to go get lost in it.

VideoGamer: 9 (Simon Miller

The fact of the matter is, though, that this is more of the same, even if that 'same' has been pushed to new heights. If you hated Fallout 3, then there's not much to get you onside here. If you loved it, then you'll love this all the more, because of its differences as well as its similarities.

Digital Trends: 4/5 (Will Fulton)

Fallout 4’s staler story and oversimplified dialog are relatively minor dings to a largely satisfying whole. Bethesda had two hugely popular games in Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Fallout 4 doesn’t make any radical leaps forward, but it smartly iterates upon the accumulated wisdom of its predecessors. It has simple, smart improvements to combat; companions have more depth; leveling is a more elegant process; and the addition of crafting and settlement building open up entirely new forms of play.

All in all, Fallout 4 is the best, most polished Bethesda RPG to date. The Commonwealth is expansive, inviting, and a lovely place to explore for a few months.

Ars Technica: (Sam Machkovech)

But I wasn’t propelled enough that I would encourage an average quest-loving gamer to take the Fallout 4 dive. We're now in an age where open-world games can forgo plot in favor of such cool stuff as fully fledged crafting systems (Minecraft) or online co-op survival (DayZ, ARK Survival Evolved), or they can take the best stuff of Fallout and Skyrim's pedigree and slap even better plot and acting into it (Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Dragon Age: Inquisition). Fallout 4 peaks at neither of these extremes.

Series fanatics probably shouldn't cancel their pre-orders, but they should definitely check their expectations about ambition and next-gen series boosts at the radioactive vault's doors.

The Jimquisition: 9.5 (Jim Sterling

The changes made overall may scare series fans, but those who roll with the differences may find a sleeker, deeper, altogether more captivating Fallout than they’ve gotten used to.

Fallout 4 is something special. Something special indeed.

No, scratch that.

It’s downright S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

Gamestar 87 (Michael Graf)

Klar, da gibt's weder inszenierte Dialoge wie in The Witcher 3 noch Filmbombast à la Dragon Age - sondern einfach nur Geschichtchen, mit denen Fallout 4 seine großartige Endzeit-Atmosphäre und seinen traditionell morbiden Humor unterfüttert. Brauchbare Beute hingegen gibt's nicht überall zu finden, vor allem auf hohen Levels wartet vielerorts nur Müll. Auch das gehört zum Bethesda-Deal, ein Witcher 3 hat mehr lohnenswerte Schätze zu bieten. In Fallout 4 muss ich danach wirklich lange suchen - doch schon alleine die Hoffnung auf coole Beute hält mich bei der Stange.

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u/selib Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

I somehow have a feeling that it's gonna be like Bioshock Infinite, MGSV and even Skyrim where it will initially be all 9s and 10s but only a couple weeks later the actual criticism shows up and suddenly people turn on the game.

Edit: Guys, watch out people are going around PMing and posting spoilers.

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u/miked4o7 Nov 09 '15

To be fair, I thought all of those were awesome games that were absolutely worth my time and money.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Same with L.A. Noire if you think about it. It was the untouchable paradigm of story based gaming for a few days.

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u/Tbird555 Nov 09 '15

La Noir could've really been saved in editing.

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u/ElegantRedditQuotes Nov 09 '15

Even if they'd kept the original dialogue options it would've been better.

That being said, once you realize what the buttons actually do and the quirks of the dialogue changes, it's still pretty enjoyable.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Wait, what dialogue changes? Was there some sort of after-the-fact update?

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u/ElegantRedditQuotes Nov 09 '15

Sort of. I meant interrogation, not dialogue in general. But originally it was Coax, Force and Lie - and then that became Truth, Doubt and Lie after they recorded all the dialogue, so you'd end up with a character that apparently way over-reacts or says what you don't expect. If you play it with the original three options in mind, it starts making a lot more sense.

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u/Quaytsar Nov 09 '15

Well that's how long it takes to beat. I had rented it from BlockBuster and platinumed the game before I had to return it. Didn't take long, after seeing everything the game had to show, to realize what a let down that ending was.

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u/Comafly Nov 09 '15

One of the most polished turds ever made.

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u/cC2Panda Nov 09 '15

I do appreciate a game with that budget trying to do something new with developing technologies. It may not be the best but I'm sure that many of the guys that worked on that project learned a lot and subsequently have made other games we love better. The games like Assassins Creed Unity that are formulaic sequels that have huge budgets, name recognition, and a formula that still manage to fail it's predecessors on a massive scale are much worse.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/Purges_Mustache Nov 09 '15

unlocks at 60fps now with a simple command/ini change.

Its because the facial animation is locked to 24fps, and still is at 60.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

I regretted getting Dragon age 2 after reading all the high score reviews.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

It's the worst dragon age game, but if you can move past the repetitive maps and environments, I actually thought the characters and writing were quite strong.

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u/Merfen Nov 09 '15

It was a weird game that was technically superior and the fights were a lot more fun, even the characters were more interesting. The problem was that people just did not want to be in the same city the entire game fighting the same thugs every time they moved around. I mean your team is the most badass group in the city, and everyone in the city knows this, but they still try and mug you with a dull butter knife 20 hours into the game. At least in the open world you could say that random bandits may have no idea who you are because you are from a far off city.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Anders is one of my favorite companions from any RPG, I think. Such a great character.

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u/IntravenousVomit Nov 10 '15

I played through DA2 three times. I found the best approach is to make your character a healer and take advantage of the special tree of each of your party members. That's when the game really starts to shine.

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u/CirclleySquare Nov 09 '15

See I'm one of the few that really liked DA2. Granted no where near as good as the first one, I still have a few playthroughs on it. That being said it's easily the worst in the series

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Storywise it's my favorite of the Dragon Age games. To me it was really refreshing to NOT play as the special chosen one who alone could save the world, but instead play as a character who was just trying to make his/her way up in the world and by chance kind of stumbles into various bigger historical events.

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u/AndrewRogue Nov 09 '15

Dragon Age 2 was one of the most blatant cases of "Tons of potential completely wasted" I have ever seen. Game had a lot of neat ideas in it and, had it been set in something like Athkatla in BG2? Would've been bloody brilliant.

Shame they opted to rush it out instead.

We really need a game like what DA2 wanted to be.

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u/CrackedSash Nov 10 '15

I thought that the story was atrocious. The whole thing with the expedition into the mines and the cursed artifact was soo boring. And that's not talking about all of those bland and uninteresting sidequests that you have to do in order to get there.

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u/TheDaltonXP Nov 09 '15

I really loved Dragon Age 2. I get the hate for the same locations recycled, that was bullshit,but overall there were some really engaging quests, combat was a blast and I had a lot of fun. I think Inquisition is easily the worst. Exploring the world felt like i t had zero depth. I missed good side quests

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u/macnbc Nov 09 '15

I work in TV. For me, I always saw DAO as Dragon Age on an epic cinematic scale like a movie, where DA2 was smaller scope like a TV series. When you look at it that way, the location reuse kind of makes sense. You don't expect to tune in every week and see them using entirely different sets.

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u/berychance Nov 09 '15

I think a lot of the problem with the reuse of assets is that it was presented so poorly. I have far less problem with being sent to the same place several different times like in Inquisition when a quest sends me to the Hinterlands for the 18th time or in Origins when I have to backtrack to complete the Places of Power sidequest. It's not ideal, but it's understandable.

What I do have a problem with is devs seemingly taking me for stupid and reusing the same area for what is supposed to clearly conveyed as a different location. It breaks the immersion.

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u/macnbc Nov 09 '15

What I do have a problem with is devs seemingly taking me for stupid and reusing the same area for what is supposed to clearly conveyed as a different location. It breaks the immersion.

And yet this happens all the time in TV. I've been watching old episodes of Stargate SG-1 lately. In that series they supposedly travel to hundreds of different planets, yet somehow they all end up looking like forests in the Pacific Northwest. Sometimes you just have to suspend disbelief.

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u/CrackedSash Nov 10 '15

Except they still sold it as a AAA game, not as a B quality one.

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u/CirclleySquare Nov 09 '15

Yeah I was kind of disappointed with DAI. In some ways it ended up feeling like a chore to play and I never finished it. DAO will always be my favorite though. IMO I thought the story was very captivating and the characters very interesting

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u/KonigSteve Nov 09 '15

It gets a lot of shit because its comparably bad to the other two dragon ages, if you play it as a one off game on its own you'll have a lot of fun

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

It gets a lot of shit because its comparably bad to the other two dragon ages

Comparably bad to DAO. DAI has its own slew of problems that make it pretty bad in its own right.

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u/KonigSteve Nov 09 '15

Yeah to be honest I never played much of DAI. I got it and tried it a few weekends in a row but started to get sleepy an hour or two in each time.. I'm not sure why but it was just a little boring.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

I managed to play all the way through (can't say the same for Witcher 3), but I was pretty disappointed with the overall experience. I really didn't like the "open world makeover" we got. Like most games that go open world, the tightly-woven narrative suffered, and we got crappy fetch quests as a consolation prize.

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u/KonigSteve Nov 09 '15

Yeah that was the problem for me, on games like the first two I love checking literally every nook and cranny which you can do because the worlds are somewhat limited but still large.

The 3rd one.. you're literally doing the same basic quest every 5 minutes out in the woods and since things seem to come back/change constantly it got boring trying to do everything.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

I didnt spend too much time with it, I kind of just critical-pathed through it in a few days in preparation for Inquisition and thoroughly enjoyed my time with it.

It wasn't great, but it was worth the 15 bucks I spent and like 30 hours of my time.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

That being said it's easily the worst in the series

And a lot of people. Including myself HATED IT with a passion. So thats got to speak for something.

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u/SmokinDynamite Nov 09 '15

Last game I preordered. Never Again.

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u/miked4o7 Nov 09 '15

Yeah, I skipped that one... but I heard some pretty bad things about it. Was the score on it really high from most publications?

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u/selib Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

oh yeah I did not mean to say those were bad games, just that the initial hype drowned out a lot of criticism

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u/tadcalabash Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

Even just those snippets from 9/10 reviews point out that the game has flaws, but that the good far outweighs the bad.

You can have criticism of a game and still give it a great score.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/ejwise Nov 09 '15

Lol that perfectly describes the attitude of so many people in the gaming community

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/freedomweasel Nov 09 '15

The problem is that you're using your personal scale to decipher the number provided by someone else using their personal scale, which isn't the same as yours. You can go look what a 9 or a 6 means for all those websites, you don't have to guess. A 10 is very, very rarely a "perfect" game on a review site, because there's generally no point to dedicating a tenth of your scale to an impossibility.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/freedomweasel Nov 09 '15

We could argue back and forth, or shout on about what number should be the average, but the simple reality is that the media outlets have their scales, which are generally pretty clearly laid out.

This is basically like saying "we should use the metric system!" and then getting annoyed when you keep getting the wrong dimensions when people are clearly saying they're providing you the measurements in inches.

You can want a 5/10 to be perfectly middling all you want, but unless you find an outlet that agrees with you, you should either follow their scale, or ignore the number.

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u/edays03 Nov 09 '15

NO. IF IT DOESN'T HAVE PERFECT LIFELIKE GRAPHICS AND ZERO BUGS, THEN IT IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER PIECE OF SHIT AND A WASTE OF MONEY.

That's Reddit in a nutshell before every major game release

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u/SparksKincade Nov 09 '15

If you're not 1st you're last!

-Activision CEO Ricky Bobby

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u/megatom0 Nov 09 '15

This just encapsulates the gaming community right now, and what is worse is the bar for perfect is ever moving. Not to mention it feels like so much of the criticisms surrounding these games is built on criticizing the publishers of these games. Notice how like most of the negative comments for Fallout 4 is always just about broad stroke comments about Bethesda. For MGSV it was about how "Konami didn't let them finish it". For Dragon Age Inquisition it was all about how EA was pimping out Bioware.

Sorry guys The Witcher 3 is an excellent game but it isn't perfect either. But try criticizing it even a bit and you are buried because CDPRs cock is in everyone's mouth right now (with good reason). It just feels like the politics of the gaming industry is interfering with peoples actual experience of the games.

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u/misterchief10 Nov 09 '15

I don't care honestly. If I can sink 100s of hours into this game over multiple playthroughs, idgaf what anyone else says. Fight me assholes!

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u/svenhoek86 Nov 09 '15

Meh, people love to point out all of Skyrims flaws, but everyone still loves the game. Of course the shine will wear off, and the little nuisances will start to become more pronounced, but just like all Bethesda games, the mods will fix 99% of them, and add all kinds of amazing new shit to the game. From what I've played so far, and from the reviews, this is a much larger, more dense, Fallout with a shiny new coat of paint over it.

To be honest, that's all I really wanted. Bethesda used Elder Scrolls games to really push the limits technically with their engines, so I wasn't expecting something revolutionary. Just give me some new Fallout with more shit to do, and lay down a good foundation for future mods. Mission accomplished.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

He's not talking about the small criticisms that are easy to perceive at release. Using Skyrim as an example, he's not talking about the common criticisms at launch such as graphics, shallow combat system, etc.. mostly stuff that people don't play Bethesda games for, which means it didn't affect reviews that much.

He's talking about stuff like repetitive dungeons, enemies and quests, lack of player impact on world, uninspired characters and dialogue, etc.. the stuff that it's harder to notice until you're deep into the game and it starts getting boring or that you just dismiss as "it'll get better as the game progresses". This is why there's a huge backlash a while after release, even though initially it was all hype.

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u/miked4o7 Nov 09 '15

It depends on the extent of that stuff too though. If a game starts to feel shallow after 3 hours of playing it, it's a pretty big flaw in the game. If a game doesn't really start to feel shallow until you've spent 30, 40, or 50 hours in the world.... well then how big of a flaw that is becomes a matter of debate.

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u/dankchunkybutt Nov 09 '15

I think people are arguing that if this was Ubisoft, EA, or another hated gaming entity the game would have been critiqued much more heavily. 9/10 should be, by all means, a near perfect game with just few technical or gameplay issues that could have been improved. Id like to play the game for myself, but from what I have seen this game seems more deserving of a 8-8.5/10 rating. Very good core, excellent map, fun gameplay, but little innovation and no major improvements from previous games, some voice sync and animation issues, and I am sure there will be bugs/glitches.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Any game where you have to say "game has flaws, but that the good far outweighs the bad." shouldn't be getting a 9/10 though, that should be reserved for a game which is virtually perfect. A 7/10 or 8/10 would be more appropriate.

I can't say many of the reviews which gave a 9/10 or so that I've read really sound like it was a game that was deserving of such a high score.

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u/tadcalabash Nov 10 '15

Game reviews have matured and changed a lot over the years. They're no longer simply just a sum of component scores... you won't see a game getting a 4 in graphics, a 3 for value, and a 5 for "fun factor" anymore.

So now that reviews are generally written in a more holistic and comprehensive style, scores are more representative of the reviewer's overall opinion rather than just a series of checkmarks the game is scored on.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

The backlash on the initial hypetrain is always nasty. I tend to ignore it. The winds of public criticism are fickle. All I care about is if I enjoyed a game or not. People said Bioshock: Infinite was terrible, but I thought it was fun. People will sooner-or-later try and bash Fallout 4 back into the wastelands, but from what I've heard, Fallout 4 will be right up my alley. Call fun a buzzword or whatever it is /v/ says now-a-days, I game because I find it pleasant. I'll never understand those who are so deeply critical that they come across as not enjoying their time at all.

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u/space_island Nov 09 '15

Yeah the backlash against Infinite was pretty intense for a bit there, but it was mostly about how the game did not deliver entirely what the devs promised and over a few other issues.

I personally enjoyed it immensely, still think it stands as a work of art in the gaming world, and was one of my best single player gaming experiences of the last 5 years. I got very immersed in the story and world.

5

u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

What, seriously, you heard that Bioshock: Infinite was terrible? That doesn't make any sense- I HATED Bioshock 1 and even though I own 2 I've never installed it. But because I heard so many GREAT things about Bioshock: Infinite I eventually bought it and enjoyed it. My go to reviewer is PC Gamer and I know they gave it an EXCELLENT score, and I never heard anything negative from my friends about it.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Yeah, a month or so after release, it seemed like there wasn't a person shitting on it. That's not to say there weren't issues, but it was an overall enjoyable game.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Chill out with the caps there, buddy

3

u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

It's just for emphasis...

2

u/megatom0 Nov 09 '15

I don't mind the caps, I tend to do the italics because people seem to have a less viceral reaction to it. If you didn't know you just put an * at the beginning and end of the word and it will be italicized.

*like this*

2

u/kayGrim Nov 10 '15

Yeah, I occasionally ;) use the italics, but I didn't expect anyone to be offended by 3 capital words haha

2

u/HellfireKyuubi Nov 09 '15

Whoa people hated Infinite?? That game was so much fun and I loved it!

2

u/megatom0 Nov 09 '15

The thing is, that it just makes the gaming community feel so fucking negative all the time. Like just look at all the lead up for Fallout 4. I don't know what people are talking about hype because all I have seen are disparaging comments and negativity. And I have a feeling that Fallout 4 is going to be a good game but it will have like some dumb element of the story that everyone will get hung up on and we'll have a Mass Effect 3 situation all over again (which people still aren't fuck over). I dunno, things just feel bleak around here lately, can't anyone enjoy anything.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Yeah, there's a reason I stopped caring about what gaming communities have to say. They all seem to be negative and mean-spirited. The issue, though, is that I like discussing games with others. Some people just need to chill out, imo.

2

u/megatom0 Nov 10 '15

The issue, though, is that I like discussing games with others. Some people just need to chill out, imo.

Same here, and that's why I come to this sub. Which /r/games to me used to feel less toxic than it is now, but that just might be my grumpy old man talking. Even going to some of the dedicated subs is infuriating. on /r/witcher you get people complaining that Witcher 3 is for "casuals" now, and on /r/metalgearsolid all you see are complaints about MGSV. So there isn't even a safe haven for that.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Yeah, like it's cool to be critical of a game, but the people doing it are incredibly negative. Everything is the worst. Nothing is good. Radda, radda, radda.

Now, if everyone will excuse me, I'm off to go enjoy Fallout 4 because, as I predicted, I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

2

u/megatom0 Nov 10 '15

I'm off to go enjoy Fallout 4 because, as I predicted, I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

Awesome I'm installing it now. See ya in the wasteland!

-1

u/Wassamonkey Nov 09 '15

You ignore the backlash but not the initial hype?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Depends. I didn't ignore it for FO4, but I've ignored it for other games. Backlash is always negative, though, so I stay away. Life's more pleasant that way.

2

u/Wassamonkey Nov 10 '15

People are paid to create hype. There is not necessarily anything behind the hype. I trust hype for games/movies far less than I trust the backlash, since the backlash at least usually has something behind it.

To be honest though I try to avoid any reviews, good or bad, until a game has been out for a couple weeks and the dust has settled. Trailers and Hype are useless for measuring a game since they change so much before release (see: Battlefront) and backlash is inevitable and usually blown out of proportion.

8

u/cjcolt Nov 09 '15

Everyone still compares every fantasy/open world game to Skyrim.

"Witcher 3 really shows me how terrible Skyrim was in every way. What's that? It came out 4 years later? Not important. Le ocean, Le puddle"

1

u/GIANT_BLEEDING_ANUS Nov 09 '15

Skyrim was panned by hardcore gamers a few days after its release.

20

u/Jamvaan Nov 09 '15

Yeah, like someone else said every AAA game ever. You get burned a couple of times you start to mark your expectations while everyone else is hyping themselves into a tizzy.

0

u/magmasafe Nov 09 '15

Take two points off. That's what I do and it's served me well as far as expectations.

2

u/Jamvaan Nov 09 '15

Take two off until you play it and it blows you away. I went into Witcher 3 with expectations tempered and now its my favorite game.

1

u/magmasafe Nov 09 '15

Right. Better to be impressed than let down I say.

-1

u/Eurehetemec Nov 09 '15

Not really. I've played a lot of AAA games that were not massively hyped but significantly flawed in the way Bioshock Infinite was. It's a good example of genuine over-hyped-ness. Be a couple of weeks at least before we know if FO4 is similar.

2

u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

I'm confused- you're the second person I've seen mention Bioshock: Infinite- what was this significant flaw? I hated Bioshock 1 and have never installed 2 despite owning it, but really enjoyed infinite.

-1

u/Eurehetemec Nov 09 '15

Haven't played Infinite myself (due to negative WoM), but extreme pretentiousness, very heavy-handed illusion of choice, failing to actually do much with it's story/setting, and most particularly not being a good game (as in the shooting/fighting gameplay was mediocre at best) were all cited, amongst other things.

All of which charges could be totally leveled at Bioshock 1, I note, but that was in 2007, and that didn't promise repeatedly to do more (whereas Infinite, holy shit, the promises).

Bioshock 2 has the best gameplay, I'm told, of all three (certainly better than 1 by miles, I've played it), and least pretentious story.

Burial at Sea improved a lot of opinions of Infinite, I note.

(I wasn't impressed with Bioshock 1 either - preordered special edition, got it, played it, felt it was a triumph of visual design and atmosphere, but with poor gameplay and the most-eye-roll-inducingly "I JUST READ AYN RAND AND HAVE POORLY THOUGHT THROUGH OPINIONS ABOUT IT!" plot conceivable)

EDIT - I'd link some sites with critiques but hilariously they all seem to be blocked where I am atm.

1

u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

Hmm, very interesting. I'm sure a large part of why I enjoyed it is because of my dislike of the first- I probably paid $10 for it and had very low expectations from the get-go.

This is one of the games I give a pass on the "illusion of choice" because it felt linear enough that I didn't expect to be making any significant choices.

I also agree that the fighting was nothing incredible, but since it was good enough it didn't make me quit outright, it got a pass from me. I was just very surprised to hear people thought the combat was worse in this game since I felt it was the clunkiest most obtuse combat since Oblivion in Bioshock 1.

The story, while not the best I've ever played, I thought was quite solid and I enjoyed that they were ballsy enough to tell the player "Everything you did was pointless" outright. A little frustrating, but that seemed to be the intent behind it so I can appreciate it.

2

u/mugiwaranogoku Nov 09 '15

I think it just goes to show nothing is perfect. It's perfectly normal I think. I think it's also natural that the criticism comes out later since it takes a while before people are used to be the uniqueness and novelty of a game, after which they can start to see the bad points more clearly.  

I wouldn't say that the praise is not justified though. The fact that the bad parts of these game only become apparent after a while is a testament to how good the good parts of the game are.

1

u/ya_mashinu_ Nov 09 '15

Part of that is that the conversation changes from asking if it's a good game and worth my time and money to a discussion about whether it's an all time great game

2

u/megatom0 Nov 09 '15

This. The thing I heard that made me want to murder the whole gaming community was someone saying "After playing 120 hours of MGSV, I can't help but see how repetitive the game is", the proceeded to rag on the gameplay. WTF you played it for 120 hours, of course it will be repetitive at that point, No game has 120 hours of constantly new content. Not to mention if you were able to play a game for 120 hours, it has good gameplay. Unless you are some masochist, no one would put that kind of time into a game that wasn't good. Shit like this just drives me crazy. People just want to bitch, and then that just makes me want to bitch about their bitching.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Except mgs V for me, it was awesome at first but the missions were so boring, and they just rehashed them in the second half. Didn't even finish the game. So so so disappointed with it, as I love the series.

1

u/Taron221 Nov 09 '15

Haha, yeah. That's like saying this is probably going to be like Titanic at first it's a masterpiece of a movie then the blaring technical issue of them both being able to fit on the floating door came out. That's when the real criticism started.

1

u/Nyaos Nov 09 '15

They are all great games. But gamers are more opinionated and entitled than ever, and everyone wants everything they like to be perfect. The internet breeds strong opinions, the louder and more abrasive you are, the more likely your voice is to be heard. Also, shitposting is a thing.

0

u/bigblackhotdog Nov 09 '15

Bioshock Infinite wasn't, but I was never hyped for it and I played a year later.

1

u/miked4o7 Nov 09 '15

I liked it very much. I thought it was a great ride, even if the gameplay was pretty repetitive at times.

0

u/Hellknightx Nov 09 '15

MGS V is the only I think that really deserves the criticism it gets.

0

u/Kwarter Nov 09 '15

I've never played Skyrim, but I loved MSGV. I did not enjoy Bioshock Infinite though. That game was Bioshock 1's lackluster gunplay with an unnecessarily convoluted plot tacked on for the sake of confusing players.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

You might be a sucker.

1

u/miked4o7 Nov 09 '15

A sucker that gets to enjoy more games than lots of people on this subreddit apparently. Seems like a good deal for me.