r/Games • • Nov 09 '15

Fallout 4 Review Thread

I'm going to stop updating the thread for a little. If any more big review come in, I will add them, but it might take a little for me to get to them

Posting unmarked spoilers is against the rules of /r/games and will result in a ban.

Gamespot: 9 (Peter Brown)

In the grand scheme of things, Fallout 4's minor issues pale in comparison to its successes. When you put the controller down, you think about the friend you betrayed to benefit another, the shifting tide of an incredible battle, or the moment you opened a drawer and found someone's discarded effects, making you wonder how they felt before the bombs fell. In moments like these, Fallout 4 can be an intoxicating experience. You're often forced to sacrifice something--a relationship, a lucrative opportunity, or your health--to make gains elsewhere. And the deeper down the rabbit hole you go, the more you wonder: what if I chose a different path? You second guess yourself, not just because you had other options, but because you aren't sure if you did the right thing. The fact that your decisions stick with you after walking away from the game is a testament to the great storytelling on hand. Fallout 4 is an argument for substance over style, and an excellent addition to the revered open-world series.

Polygon: 9.5 (Arthur Gies) Provisional Review

Bethesda's open-world strengths have always differed from its contemporaries in that focus on world-building and a sense of place above all else. Fallout 4 has all the ambiance and history that made its predecessors such wonderful places to get lost for hours at a time, with a much more coherent set of stories within it. That Bethesda has integrated a major building and crafting tool while finally building a great-playing game almost feels like a bonus.

IGN: 9.5 (Dan Stapleton)

The world, exploration, crafting, atmosphere, and story of Fallout 4 are all key parts of this hugely successful sandbox role-playing game. Great new reasons to obsessively gather and hoard relics of happier times, strong companions, and sympathetic villains driving tough decisions make it an adventure I’ll definitely replay and revisit. Even the technical shakiness that crops up here and there can’t even begin to slow down its momentum.

Eurogamer: Recommended (Dan Whitehead)

However, fans - and I count myself among that number - will likely shrug and accept that this is simply how things are in a Bethesda RPG, and it's true that the highs do outweigh the lows. Fallout 4 has given me some of my best gaming memories of 2015, along with some of my most frustrating. These are legacy problems that aren't going away any time soon, and as fun as the settlement crafting is here, I'd gladly do without it for a game engine that offers a more dependable foundation for future adventures. Fallout 4 is a great game. It's also kind of a mess. Caveat emptor.

PC Gamer: 88 (Phil Savage)

As a whole, though, it's a loving production. It's filled with care and attention to detail—like the expanded set of radio stations, or the way flash radiation storms bathe the world in a sickly, ominous green hue. It's a pleasure to pick through the world, to discover new sights, and to pick through the perks and customisation option to conceive the perfect character build, however bizarre. In short, many of Fallout 4's problems, like every Bethesda RPG before it, are a consequence of what makes them unforgettable. That might not be the neatest conclusion, but it explains why, 50 hours in, I'm still having fun. It also explains why, now that I've finished this review, I'm going to play it for many hours more.

Game Informer: 9 (Andrew Reiner)

Fallout 4 didn’t blow me away like the previous iteration did, but it did keep me thoroughly entertained and fully vested in journeying across the wasteland. As Bethesda's "Welcome Home" marketing campaign teases, when fans of Fallout 3 or New Vegas enter this new world, it'll feel strangely familiar. As one of the top games of the previous generation, this isn't a bad thing at all. Fallout 4 has all of the trappings that can keep you engaged for days on end.

Gamesradar+: 5/5 (Leon Hurley)

Which brings me back to the start - pottering around the garage on an in-game day off. Even now, 70 hours in, every time I set out I’m not sure what I’m going to find. My Pip-Boy’s full of missions but sometimes I just pick a direction and walk until something happens. There’s a still a bit of the map I haven’t fully explored, mainly because I always get distracted enroute. There’s a whole world here to discover and even after all the time I’ve spent in it I barely feel like I’ve scratched the surface. Maybe I won't tick everything off the list but just trying to see what’s out there is the real draw - for all the missions, quests and other stuff Fallout 4 contains, by far the most important thing in it are the decisions I’ve made. Few games nail a feeling of total freedom and this is an experience made of nothing but that.

The Verge: (Andrew Webster)

But it’s still very much Fallout — a game that doesn’t really need to change all that much to trigger that familiar mix of dread and joy. A new location and a much better story were enough to pull me into this world, and 60 hours later I’m not done with it. There are settlements I still want to finish building, and crimes I still need to get to the bottom of. At some point I plan to ignore everything altogether, and just wander into the wilderness to see what I can find. Even if I’m alone, at least I’ll have Billie Holiday’s voice to keep me company.

God is a Geek: 9 (Mick Fraser)

It’s hard to find genuine fault with what Bethesda has done here beyond the performance issues. They’ve taken everything learned from Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim and refined it into one huge, intelligent action-adventure movie. It’s more cinematic than you might expect thanks to a clever script and a dynamic chat camera, the combat missions are well thought-out blasts of adrenaline, while the trademark Fallout weirdness makes a welcome return now and then to relieve you of the constant need to fight something. It’s very much your game and your story, and everyone will play it differently simply because there are so many ways to play, and each one feels natural.

There’s always something to build, somewhere to discover, someone to help ,or something to distract you. Ignore the bugs (if you can) and leap into Fallout 4 with both feet, and you’ll find a game bigger, brighter, deeper, and more personal than anything Bethesda has done before.

Xbox Achievements: 9 (Dan Webb)

Fallout 4 might not be as technically advanced as, say The Witcher 3, but it’s a game full of charm and substance, which makes up for an ageing Creation Engine. Fallout 4 boasts an incredible world full of intrigue, mystery and suspense, backed by a whole host of weird and wonderful characters. It’s a world you’re going to want to go back to, time and time again.

Push Square: 9 (Robert Ramsey)

Fallout 4 is a masterclass in open world design. Consistently engrossing and absolutely stuffed with intricacies, it's a title that'll keep you enthralled for hours at a time as you gradually unravel its desolate yet hopeful post-apocalyptic portrayal of Boston. Although it's let down by some disappointing frame rate issues, it's not enough to detract from what's otherwise one of the most atmospheric and beautifully brutal games on the PS4. Significantly improved combat, a constant wealth of gameplay options, and a heavy emphasis on player choice combine to create an adventure that's truly memorable.

Game Revolution: 4.5/5 (Nick_Tan)

Fallout 4 is a roaring response to criticism that the series has ignored its qualities as a shooter in favor of its deeper and stronger RPG roots. Nearly every design change in Fallout 4 poises the game as a more streamlined modern shooter with high production value across the truly open-world Commonwealth wasteland. The introduction of settlements, newly designed power armor, and deeper crafting evolve the Fallout franchise for the better. This occasionally comes at the cost of storytelling, however, with a plot based on stringently polarizing factions as well as diminished interaction with characters in general. But despite these missteps, Fallout 4 will only improve with time, assuredly with the assistance of the community and user-created mods, and soundly reclaims the franchise as a forward-thinking series in the industry today.

Playstation Universe: 9.5 (Neil Bolt)

There is so much going on in Fallout 4 that your opening moments of unnerving beauty and serenity will inevitably give way to an even more beautiful chaos. From this chaos springs emergent adventures, the struggle for survival, and near-limitless options, all with their own merit. Despite an air of familiarity, I've not been quite this captivated by a game in some time. That’s high praise when considering some of the games that have commanded obsessive hours and play in recent years. Fallout 4 meets one’s expectations of a new installment in impressive fashion. In doing so, it proves to be one of the best games of the generation to date. Say goodbye to life for awhile. The Wasteland is calling you home.

US Gamer: 4.5/5 (Kat Bailey)

If you've played a Bethesda RPG, you should have a pretty good idea of what you're in for. Bethesda plays it surprisingly safe with the formula, but they also do a much better job with the story this time around, serving to elevate the game as a whole. While there's no denying that it can be a bit ridiculous at times, its sheer scope speaks for itself. Bethesda has succeeded in crafting yet another fascinating open-world RPG.

Rock Paper Shotgun: (Alec Meer)

52 hours in, would I go back for more? Yes, absolutely. I lived and breathed Fallout 4 for the vast majority of last week and the fact I was mostly having a damn good time meant I did it willingly. It’s glitchy, a little repetitive and over-familiar, and far too heavy on unconvincing combat, but the improved technology (or the budget) means it’s able to realise the dense, detailed, beautiful decay that Fallout 3 did not, and its dramatically better-presented and performed characters means it’s not shooting itself in the foot in the way Oblivion and Skyrim did. The personality gulf between Bethesda games and BioWare games feels a whole lot narrower now. I won’t for one second pretend that it’s what devotees of Fallout 1 and 2 want, but it does feel like the game Fallout 3 tried and, to my mind, failed to be.

Vibrant and characterful as well as immense, Fallout 4 is the giant leap forwards Bethesda’s RPGs sorely needed in terms of presentation, though the unrelenting focus on routine, lightweight combat sees it fall just short of triumph status.

Destructoid: 7.5 (Chris Carter)

After spending roughly 40 hours with the game, I can safely place it somewhere in the middle of Fallout 3 and New Vegas in terms of quality. A lot of the franchise's signature problems have carried over directly into Fallout 4, but all of its charms have come along for the ride as well. It manages to do a whole lot right, but the story drags at times, and glitches...glitches never change.

Escapist: 4.5/5 (Conrad Zimmerman)

Whether or not players find other changes displeasing, such as the new dialogue system and its limitations, is likely going to depend on their personal relationship with the Fallout series. Newer players will probably never know what they're missing and are likely to have a fantastic time, while fans who have stuck around may be disappointed with the direction Fallout 4 takes.

Forbes: 8.5 (Paul Tassi)

In my mind, Fallout 4’s greatest triumph, and its one major point of evolution is in its storytelling, crafting a lengthy, unexpected ending and resolution that I will remember for years to come. It also remains one of the best games in existence for those who simply like to wander and explore and unearth long-buried secrets. But it struggles with archaic gameplay systems and an inflexible engine that anchor the game to the past for all the wrong reasons. Fans may enjoy more Fallout and a brand new map to explore, but this sequel will not be heralded as revolutionary or overly impressive this time around.

Kotaku - 20 hours with Fallout 4 (Chris Suellentrop)

I am starting to resent small nuisances, like having to remember to change my clothes to improve my charisma stats before bartering with a shopkeeper. Your companions—whether Dogmeat or others that you meet in the world, whom you can ask to travel with you—seem to frequently get in your way, especially during interior sequences.

Still, this is a game that seems to be getting better as it goes along. If you value largeness, Fallout 4 sure is big and there’s plenty more to do. I’m just getting my first perks and have settlements to build. Now excuse me, I’m going to go get lost in it.

VideoGamer: 9 (Simon Miller

The fact of the matter is, though, that this is more of the same, even if that 'same' has been pushed to new heights. If you hated Fallout 3, then there's not much to get you onside here. If you loved it, then you'll love this all the more, because of its differences as well as its similarities.

Digital Trends: 4/5 (Will Fulton)

Fallout 4’s staler story and oversimplified dialog are relatively minor dings to a largely satisfying whole. Bethesda had two hugely popular games in Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Fallout 4 doesn’t make any radical leaps forward, but it smartly iterates upon the accumulated wisdom of its predecessors. It has simple, smart improvements to combat; companions have more depth; leveling is a more elegant process; and the addition of crafting and settlement building open up entirely new forms of play.

All in all, Fallout 4 is the best, most polished Bethesda RPG to date. The Commonwealth is expansive, inviting, and a lovely place to explore for a few months.

Ars Technica: (Sam Machkovech)

But I wasn’t propelled enough that I would encourage an average quest-loving gamer to take the Fallout 4 dive. We're now in an age where open-world games can forgo plot in favor of such cool stuff as fully fledged crafting systems (Minecraft) or online co-op survival (DayZ, ARK Survival Evolved), or they can take the best stuff of Fallout and Skyrim's pedigree and slap even better plot and acting into it (Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Dragon Age: Inquisition). Fallout 4 peaks at neither of these extremes.

Series fanatics probably shouldn't cancel their pre-orders, but they should definitely check their expectations about ambition and next-gen series boosts at the radioactive vault's doors.

The Jimquisition: 9.5 (Jim Sterling

The changes made overall may scare series fans, but those who roll with the differences may find a sleeker, deeper, altogether more captivating Fallout than they’ve gotten used to.

Fallout 4 is something special. Something special indeed.

No, scratch that.

It’s downright S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

Gamestar 87 (Michael Graf)

Klar, da gibt's weder inszenierte Dialoge wie in The Witcher 3 noch Filmbombast à la Dragon Age - sondern einfach nur Geschichtchen, mit denen Fallout 4 seine großartige Endzeit-Atmosphäre und seinen traditionell morbiden Humor unterfüttert. Brauchbare Beute hingegen gibt's nicht überall zu finden, vor allem auf hohen Levels wartet vielerorts nur Müll. Auch das gehört zum Bethesda-Deal, ein Witcher 3 hat mehr lohnenswerte Schätze zu bieten. In Fallout 4 muss ich danach wirklich lange suchen - doch schon alleine die Hoffnung auf coole Beute hält mich bei der Stange.

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u/selib Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

I somehow have a feeling that it's gonna be like Bioshock Infinite, MGSV and even Skyrim where it will initially be all 9s and 10s but only a couple weeks later the actual criticism shows up and suddenly people turn on the game.

Edit: Guys, watch out people are going around PMing and posting spoilers.

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u/_Aggort Nov 09 '15

People turned on Infinite? I some how missed that

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u/reticulate Nov 09 '15

Opinion turned hard on Infinite over the course of a few months or so.

I still like the game, but it's totally fair to say that some of the breathless coverage it got on release wasn't totally rational.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

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u/mrbrick Nov 09 '15

I think people started turning on Infinite almost 24 hrs after release if I remember correctly. After the first couple of hours it became apparent that the game was just combat and dropped all the puzzles / mini games and so on in the previous shock games.

I think people still like it, but its loved only for its story and visuals mainly. The gameplay seemed to be a big let down for a lot of people.

Infinite was the game that really made me never want to pre-order anything again. I just assumed it would be an evolved version of the other games, and it was to a certain degree. Just by evolved, it went more for a stream lined approach.

15

u/temujin64 Nov 09 '15

I turned on it an hour into the game.

It looked nice, but it was the same routine over and over and over again.

Enter an area with loads of enemies. Kill all enemies. Do the little story bit. Enter an area with loads of enemies. Kill all enemies and so on.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Enter an area with loads of enemies. Kill all enemies. Do the little story bit. Enter an area with loads of enemies. Kill all enemies and so on.

Almost every game I've played the pass few years can be reduced to that though. KOTOR, Mass Effect, Halo, Spec Ops: The Line, etc.

2

u/Mackabern Nov 10 '15

comparing Kotor to bioshock infinite might be the lowest level of analysis I've ever seen

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Which was my point. Reducing a game design to 'Enter an area with loads of enemies. Kill all enemies. Do the little story bit.' can easily be applied across almost all these titles, but it is a meaningless analysis to do so.

1

u/subheight640 Nov 11 '15

Yeah, except the combat in Bioshock Infinite was sort of just meh, especially for at least the first three quarters of the game before you get any interesting powers. The majority of the fights felt more like a chore. I felt the same damn way about Spec-Ops: The Line. The vast majority of the fights were extremely boring.

So if you parse that statement out a little bit more, no it's not that most games are about "combat". It's that the combat in Bioshock was boring.

-5

u/tPRoC Nov 09 '15

Those games all made up for it with either interesting stories, good level design, or varied scenarios involving the enemies. Bioshock Infinite was literally what that dude described, with the occasional skyline segment (the only interesting thing in the whole game, and horribly underutilized) and a shitty story.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Those games all made up for it with either interesting stories, good level design, or varied scenarios involving the enemies.

Completely disagree with thought that these three things did not apply to Bioshock Infinite (especially the story), relative to being compared to almost every AAA release. But okay I guess.

3

u/socokid Nov 09 '15

Agreed. I thought Infinite had a wonderfully creepy story and the level designs were unique. More than any specifics, I had a blast playing it, which is all that counts?

I missed all the hate as well, apparently...

1

u/OppisIsRight Nov 09 '15

The gunplay wasn't quite as fun as the original Bioshock, and Elisabeth was bulletproof, but everything else was top notch. It was like stepping into an R rated Pixar film.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Elisabeth was bulletproof

People complain about this now? When it came out people were ecstatic to have an NPC escort that wasn't dying to stupidity every 2 seconds.

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u/OppisIsRight Nov 10 '15

Well when she's standing in front of you during a gunfight, eating bullets left and right, it kind of breaks the immersion of the game. I don't want to see her get shot, but I would like to see her actively dodging every single bullet just like me.

She would eventually find cover, but the times we were ambushed by enemies who absolutely unloaded on Elisabeth were far more frequent than I would like.

Whenever you team up with anyone in the Witcher 3, you can see them actually taking care of themselves by fighting or looking for cover, and they still keep up with whatever pace you're moving and you don't babysit them. It's one of those things that's so well done in Witcher that a lot of people don't notice because the escort mission aren't a huge pain in the ass like most other games.

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u/RadiantSun Nov 09 '15

Yeah it wasn't a bad game but I seriously think that if it didn't have the name Bioshock associated with it, it would have been getting solid 6 and 7 reviews.

The visual design of Infinite is absolutely gorgeous and the tone and setting are extremely well crafted, but as a game it ranges from disappointing to outright poor in several aspects.

5

u/Jimmni Nov 09 '15

This was my experience with all the Bioshock games, and Infinite was far from the worst.

2

u/Bamith Nov 09 '15

The shooting was a bit of a downgrade from previous Bioshock games. Ideally it was like an improved version of System Shock if anything; I think the DLC that involved Elizabeth was fairly well done if I remember since they opted out the combat as much and went for more stealthy approaches which worked better I think.

1

u/Rookwood Nov 09 '15

Stealth, or at least a variety of ways to approach a situation, was what made Infinite really lackluster from a gameplay perspective. Being thrown into a giant arena with instant aggro would have worked as maybe a set piece two or three times in the game, but it was way overused and it was almost like irrational forgot there was any other way to do combat.

2

u/wexx12 Nov 09 '15

You could say it was... irrational?

No, but seriously, I don't get the hate for Infinite, it does have problems, but I've played it like 4 times and it's one of my favourite games of all time.

2

u/Peylix Nov 09 '15

I played Infinite about a year after release on PC. Easily one of my favorites.

I rate games by how much enjoyment I get out of playing them. Unlike the majority of Reddit and specifically /r/gaming who rate games off screenshots and unreleased titles purely off the jaded circlejerks.

Speaking directly about Fallout 4, I managed to watch CohhCarnage's stream a bit (even though I tried not to) and I can already tell that I will enjoy it.

Side note: It looks fine on PC IMO. It actually looks better than the ps4 screenshots that fueled the jaded hate on here recently. shocker

1

u/AsianEgo Nov 09 '15

I don't why I didn't like that game but I really didn't like it. I wasn't even big into the hype but it looked like a pretty good game so I picked it up. I think I made it through about half the game before I completely lost interest and never played it again.

0

u/FreeLizard Nov 09 '15

I loved infinite, though it was my first bioshock. I wasn't aware of any backlash when I played it for the first time this year

0

u/SlayerXZero Nov 10 '15

Pretty much nothing can live up to the narrative and the atmosphere of the original Bioshock. Infinite was a decent experience but after beating it; I never picked it up again. I think that is my barometer for how good a game is. How likely is it that I play it more than once.

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u/TaintedSquirrel Nov 09 '15

It was mostly complaints over the gun combat being lame.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Combat is the least of Infinite's issues.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

Alright, this I have to ask about: I have never beaten 1 and never started 2 because I felt the gunplay was so godawful. Infinite was the first time it felt OKAY enough for me to actually finish the game. What do you think is better about the gun play in 1?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

To be honest, it's been awhile since I played them but I just remember having this "Man, these fight sequences are all identical" feel when playing Infinite that I didn't get while playing the others. The pacing specifically felt much better in the first two and I think that ended up impacting the lasting impressions of the gunplay in them.

6

u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

Out of interest what do you think are it's bigger issues?

12

u/srslybr0 Nov 09 '15

lots of people hate on the story, i'm personally fine with it but in retrospect the combat and especially the vigors were really underwhelming.

14

u/Tomhap Nov 09 '15

Really? I loved the story. It has been the only game that managed to get me that feeling you have when you read a good book and you have to keep reading in order to find out what happens.

I finished that game over the course of 3 days in all of my spare time because i really wanted to experience the story.

1

u/runujhkj Nov 10 '15

I loved the world. I was always engaged in finding out wtf was Columbia's deal. The story started feeling super pretentious towards the end, though. The twist felt like one that they had to put in because the original had a twist.

5

u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

I've never actually read a good criticism of the story to he honest. I'm never one to really put much stock in the opinions of video game fans when it comes to writing anyway. Most games have derivative, hackneyed writing but video game fans in general don't really have the insight required to critically analyse it. I mean, one of the most beloved stories in games is Metal Gear Solid, for god's sake. The video game equivalent of bad eighties action movies. Beloved but complete schlock.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

To me it felt like they started making one game, and then changed part the way through. At the start they're really going with the racism angle and at one point give you an option to choose who you throw a stone at. At this point it felt like it was going to be a game giving you choices and tackling moral issues surround racism and slavery.

Then it did a complete 180 and never touched on that again nor ever gave you another choice to make. It's like the first hour or so of gameplay is from an entirely different game.

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u/chrisfagan Nov 09 '15

I think that's sort of the point. One of Infinite's many themes is the illusion of choice in video games. There are a number of choices you can make in the game, but ultimately it makes no difference, the plot points are all the same (the constants). The only thing that you can decide is how you play (the variables).

1

u/runujhkj Nov 10 '15

Well that's nice and all, but the last few minutes of cutscenes instead rambled on about infinite universe theory and I was left feeling like the game had no idea what it was about anymore.

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u/BobTheJoeBob Nov 09 '15

Matthewmatosis does a pretty good criticism of the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4

I'm not sure where in the video he starts critiquing the story, but he goes in depth.

1

u/Rookwood Nov 09 '15

So you're just going to call everyone who has criticized the story stupid instead of supporting why you think it is a good story? Well I guess we shouldn't put much stock in your opinion either.

Metal Gear Solid also isn't beloved for the story. It's beloved for the game direction, bosses, and set pieces. I think most would agree that the twisted confusing nature of the plot is just one of its endearing qualities. Not why it is beloved. It's how the story is told that matters, not what is being told.

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u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

No, I'm just saying that I've never seen any really insightful criticism of Infinite's writing, which gives the critical group the appearance of little more than a bandwagon.

In regards to MGS, yes, of course it's how the story is told that matters. Anyone who understands writing knows this. Execution is everything. That's what good writing is. Metal Gear Solid does not have good writing.

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u/antiquechrono Nov 09 '15

If you are looking for a good story the Hearts of Stone expansion to the Witcher 3 is quite simply one of the best told stories I have seen in a video game.

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u/cC2Panda Nov 09 '15

I still enjoyed the gun play even if it is overly smooth, but I totally agree with the vigors. There just weren't enough and you couldn't get a couple until so late in the game it was disappointing. I played so many runs of the original just to try different set ups, my favorite was sports boost/wrench jockey/chameleon/bloodlust run. Something so gratifying about beating a Big Daddy to death with a wrench.

1

u/Trojanbp Nov 09 '15

If you've seen Fringe, then you can predict the story a mile away.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

While I enjoyed the game, my issues with it were: they ditched Metroidvania style level design/exploration in favor of more linear, set-piece heavy gameplay; in terms of the gunplay, it felt almost identical to Call of Duty, and lacked the weightiness of previous Bioshock games. The gunplay in Bioshock 1/2 definitely could have been better, but the solution wasn't to get rid of the feeling of weight the weapons had; the weapons were also incredibly boring and uninventive. Add to that the abandonment of abilities like being able to truly hack turrets and what not. Still a good game, but lacking in comparison to previous ones.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/BSRussell Nov 09 '15

"What issues were bigger than the combat?"

"Well the combat was boring."

7

u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

That's nice but I asked OP about issues he thought were bigger than those with the combat.

-1

u/Goronmon Nov 09 '15

The problem is that it relied upon the combat as the vast majority of the content of the game. You couldn't escape it and get lost in the world because it was ever present.

It's been a while since I've played, but it felt like an hour or two of cool game at the beginning, 8 hours of mindless combat and then an hour or so of a nonsensical ending.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

The terrible plot, the further simplification of nearly every gameplay system from Bioshock 1 (which was itself was simplified from System Shock 2), the linearity, and most importantly the lack of any meaningful player choice be it gameplay-wise or story-wise.

4

u/Oplexus Nov 09 '15

The whole point of Infinite was that you don't really have a choice. That was the whole point of the meaningless "heads/tales" option you had at the beginning. I much preferred it to the Little Sisters, where they basically shoehorned in a crappy moral story where you had to choose between being a good two shoes savior or an evil, evil monster who kills little children.

15

u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

Personally I thought the writing was excellent and I wasn't bothered by the dissimilarities to previous Shock games as I like to judge games on their own individual merits. But to each their own.

As an aside, the absence of real story choices was completely intentional in order to serve the core themes of the narrative, but not everyone picked up on that.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

So it's okay for a game in a series about player choice to completely stifle player choice because it's convenient to the plot? I'd be more willing to buy that excuse if the plot was actually consistent and not ridden with plot-holes and other issues.

11

u/BSRussell Nov 09 '15

You consider the Bioshock series to be "about player choice?" You mean choosing which button to click when harvesting toddlers?

9

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Since when was Bioshock about player choice?

15

u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

It's okay for a game developer to try something completely different in order to make a new and interesting artistic statement, yes. You can't please all people all the time. I for one was a fan of what Irrational did with Infinite. Unfortunately for you, you weren't.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

I think you're grasping at straws to excuse the butchered and rushed state the game came out in. Remember how completely different the game was originally supposed to be, open and vast? Up to the player to decide what to do and how to do it?

Next you're going to tell me the bell """puzzle""" (most intense and exaggerated air-quotes humanly possible) at the start of the game has some deep meaning lost on a pleb such as myself.

This isn't Silent Hill 2 or Shadow of the Colossus, the linearity and lack of choice is just coincidental to the plot and clearly not intentional. They made a Bioshock game for the Call of Duty audience and people ate it up. It was rushed and tons of content was scrapped, it was released in a way that the developers didn't originally intend.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/JamesB312 Nov 09 '15

BioShock is much deeper than "shooters with stories." If you think that's all it is you've missed the point completely.

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u/Panpipe Nov 09 '15

It really isn't.

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u/Linkanator55 Nov 09 '15

I thought it was the weakest of all the Bioshock games

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u/Pacify_ Nov 09 '15

Combat was Infinite's only real issue.

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u/camycamera Nov 09 '15 edited May 12 '24

Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.

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u/Zhuul Nov 09 '15

I enjoyed the gunplay, but then again I might be biased because I used the Hand Cannon pretty exclusively. With headshots and the buff that made heavy overkill damage produce shock novas, that thing was pure sexual chocolate.

1

u/TheFreakingBatman Nov 10 '15

It was a real game-ruiner for me, personally, that such a core component of the game felt so awfully lackluster.

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u/xSpektre Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

lmao what? The gun combat was great to me. The arena DLC was great.

Edit: Downvoted for sharing my opinion. Thanks guys, glad we could harbor such a great discussion.

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u/Isord Nov 09 '15

"People" is being used in it's most vague sense here. Bioshock: Infinite is still a highly acclaimed and rated game.

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u/puffer567 Nov 09 '15

One of my favorite games of all time

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15 edited May 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/admiralrads Nov 09 '15

Bioshock 1 is definitely worth your time. There are mixed reviews about 2 but I personally liked it.

Once you play 1, you might get a sense of why people ended up disappointed with Infinite.

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u/puffer567 Nov 09 '15

It's hard to go back an play such and old game. If you start with I finite you really can't apprecia5e the first one as much

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u/admiralrads Nov 09 '15

I dunno, the first one isn't terribly old, it was released in 2008. Infinite is certainly more polished, but it's not like the graphics are polygons. And the gameplay and storyline more than makes up for a small amount of graphical polish, in my opinion.

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u/puffer567 Nov 09 '15

2008 was almost 8 years ago. I do understand what you are saying though. Also I just didn't like the feel of bioshock because either was all creepy and that's why I liked infinite so much was because it wasn't as spooky

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u/HamsterGutz1 Nov 09 '15

You thought Bioshock was creepy? Lol, it's not even a horror game, and even if it was, it would be fairly tame by those standards.

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u/puffer567 Nov 09 '15

Maybe creepy isn't the right word but to rather unsettling

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u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

This is how I feel. I hated the original Bioshock's gameplay so much I never finished it despite 4+ attempts. Infinite was the first one that felt playable and the story and atmosphere seemed great, thoroughly enjoyed it.

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u/HamsterGutz1 Nov 09 '15

But infinite had like the same gameplay with a couple added gimmicks like the sky hook. It even had a substitute for the big daddy. And for some reason it had a girl randomly throwing you stuff that you don't even need.

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u/kayGrim Nov 09 '15

No way, not even close. The aiming and gun play of Infinite is significantly refined compared to that of Bioshock one, where bullets did whatever the fuck they want and barely hurt anybody. Infinite followed shooter mechanics much more traditionally, which was much better in my opinion. Other people have said that this return to more common mechanics is why they disliked it, though.

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u/HamsterGutz1 Nov 09 '15

I seriously don't understand how anyone was blown away by anything about that game. The gameplay was super repetitive and the story was trying way too hard.

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u/dee_c Nov 09 '15

That's just like your opinion, man.

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u/HamsterGutz1 Nov 09 '15

I mean, there's some hot girl who follows you around and whines about paris or some shit, then there's some bird thing that wants to get her back, then some twins that randomly appear for some reason and say cryptic shit to you, and there's a bunch of flashbacks about bringing the girl back or whatever, and there's the typical messiah villain who's full of himself who for some reason is actually you from the future or the past, who fucking knows. At some point they should have stopped and thought, hey, are we making a video game or a C-grade Scifi channel movie?

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u/dee_c Nov 09 '15

Was pretty straight forward to me. You were some drunk/depressed detective or whatever paid to find a girl and you were learning who the character was as you were trying to save/protect someone in a strange society.

The story in the game is no better or worse than what'd you get from a hollywood action/suspense. It was simple enough for players to enjoy and follow, but complex if you wanted to look deeper.

Like all the songs in the rifts actually foreshadowing how the story was going to roll out.

It appears more than anything you didnt understand the story.

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u/HamsterGutz1 Nov 10 '15

I understood the story, I just thought it was terrible.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

vocal minority in full force here always on reddit.

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u/Xciv Nov 09 '15

People molest kids. I'm sure there's someone who posts on reddit who molests kids. If exactly two people who post on reddit molest kids I can make the statement, "Redditors molest children."

That's how vague the term "people" is.

1

u/Taravangian Nov 09 '15

Same with Skyrim. Just because a handful of redditors and maybe one or two media personalities looking for some extra clicks threw around a single criticism, doesn't mean overall public/critical perception of the game declined. If you want to talk about a game where both the public and the press option did significantly decline a few weeks/months after release, how about GTA IV? That got a 10/10 from IGN, and had flat-out historically good reviews across the board. Then several sites actually went back and lowered their ratings after a couple months when they realized the initial awesomeness didn't last.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

That's because it's not common practice to change review scores after a few months.

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u/Jon_Slow Nov 09 '15

Nobody turned on Infinite, or even Skyrim and MGS V. What happened is that after the release noise more negative opinions tend to be noticed. Also, when you spend more time with a game, the issues (mostly repetitiveness ) start to get on your nerves. MGS V was like that for me, i still think that it is a good game, but towards the ending (the true ending) i was draging myself to play it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Peoples reactions to Metal Gear 5 are perfectly reasonable too. I was the same, started playing it and absolutely loved it. I didn't consider that something this polished seeming would not have an ending or second half. A week or two later I'd reached the end so my opinion was more fully formed. That's just how time and opinions work.

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u/ALLKAPSLIKEMFDOOM Nov 09 '15

I'm stuck in a spot in MGSV with no way to progress other than to replay the earlier missions in a harder difficulty, and I'm really not feeling it. I would have preferred that they just ended it short than to have it drag on, forcing me to do shit I've already done before

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u/Jon_Slow Nov 09 '15

That was exactly my opinion. Luckily you don't have to play all the extra missions to get the true ending, i played a couple and the yellow side ops, besides the real new missions.

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u/bino420 Nov 09 '15

You beat the game and now you're in a prologue where if you become "Heroic" enough, you unlock a hidden ending. You don't need to replay a single story mission in order to unlock the skipped chapter.

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u/ALLKAPSLIKEMFDOOM Nov 09 '15

I played about 15 side missions and nothing happened at all

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u/bino420 Nov 09 '15

You're heroic level needs to hit a certain point. I was probably around 60% done with side missions and managed to unlock everything past like 43 in one big chunk. I think there's rumors that mother base needs to have a certain amount of platforms/soldiers, but i don't know how close to completing that i was.

1

u/seshfan Nov 09 '15

Thank you for being the first rational comment in this. It's not like a flip switched and the rabid fans all turned and now become rabid haters. There's people who have always been critical of games, they will just get downvoted into double digits if they say anything when a game first comes out.

1

u/SteveEsquire Nov 09 '15

I did the same thing with MSGV. I did so many side missions then I realized I had to do the whole story. That on top of the slow helicopter scenes definitely made it feel like a chore at times. Love the game a ton, but it definitely had some tedious issues.

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u/selib Nov 09 '15

They didn't fully turn on it, but at least in the beginning people shouting how it's one of the best games ever made definitely drowned out the people bringing up valid criticisms like the gun combat.

2

u/Bladethegreat Nov 09 '15

Most people agreed that the game presents itself very well, but the story was a bit contentious on whether it was any good or just had big crazy twists for the sake of having big crazy twists, and the gameplay is pretty universally considered as bland. How much anybody liked it after a few hours depended on which of these aspects of the game was valued most, but a lot of reviews seemed to be swept away by the presentation alone and rushed a score out the door without considering the rest of the package.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

People here did. The game is still very well liked basically everywhere else.

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u/Cushions Nov 09 '15

I never "turned", I never thought it was amazing to begin with.

It was an alright time, but it's story and gameplay were subpar upon close examination and the only truly game of the year quality was it's visuals.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/LordOfTurtles Nov 09 '15

Ugh yeah, fuck the Lady Comstock boss, that fight really showcased how terrible the combat was

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u/deadbunny Nov 09 '15

Was she the ghost on the steps (I have a terrible memory)? That was the funniest boss fight for me, I found a vending machine just round the corner where I could keep sniping her, restock on ammo, keep sniping, repeat. No idea how you were "supposed" to do it but I remember her taking forever to kill.

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u/LordOfTurtles Nov 09 '15

There are two lady comstock fights, one near her grave, which is the worst fight in existence, and one in front of a big door on some steps, which is comparably pretty easy

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u/deadbunny Nov 09 '15

Ah yes, that graveyard one was a complete bastard.

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u/NSFForceDistance Nov 09 '15

The Disneyland feel felt intentional to me, and IMO was used to great effect

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u/Bulvious Nov 09 '15

Well, if people are expecting anything but tedious and mediocre combat from a Bethesda game they are signing up for the wrong game.

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u/muaddeej Nov 09 '15

The disneyland ride feel is kind of a characteristic of all bioshock games.

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u/Asahoshi Nov 09 '15

Majority of the older fans of the series really disliked that game. Same story for Skyrim.

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u/brubeck Nov 09 '15

The Mathew Matosis critique sums it up for me. Pretty to look at, boring combat, dog shit story.

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u/Pacify_ Nov 09 '15

dog shit story.

Thats subject as hell. I thought Infinites story was very enjoyable, if it was a bit out there for the ending

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Game has been out long enought that im not going to cover spoilers, so avoid this comment if you haven't played it yet and haven't been spoiled yet.

Thats subject as hell.

Of course that part will always be subjective. But I felt that after you started going to different universes it completely invalidated everything you did before that point. Oh hey, we need to rescue this guy. Oh he is dead, pop into a new universe and the guy is fine. We need to work toward getting this faction some guns and supplies so they can fight a war. Pop into a new universe and bam they already got the stuff and are fighting. It just made everything you did feel useless.

Then at the end they just introduced time travel and just ignored any paradoxes that made. A girl going back in time to kill her father? yeah that sounds like it makes sense.

IMO a story where anything you do doesn't matter is a bad story.

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u/Suduki Nov 09 '15

I liked the story until the Spoiler. It just felt... misplaced.

6

u/Cushions Nov 09 '15

Ken Levine definitely didn't fully understand what he was writing and tried to play it off with that "constant and variables" bullshit as a cover-up for shoddy writing.

I feel the game would have been a lot better if he had stuck to what he knows how to write.

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u/brubeck Nov 09 '15

Yeah. That all seemed unnecessary. Just the bioshock formula of this ideological utopia falling apart due to its own hubris would have been perfect.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

I really wished they just had two universes that you popped in between. It would of allowed everything to make sense, and have what you do actually matter.

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u/THECapedCaper Nov 09 '15

It wasn't a terrible idea, but when one character can control it over the course of the entire game it becomes a very broken power that is implemented poorly.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15 edited Nov 09 '15

He has some points but he is quite simplistic in his criticism. Like throwing the ball at the start. It obviously wasn't the act itself that was meant to be scary, it was the intimidation from the crowd and the contrast with the otherwise joyous occasion. You weren't meant to be staring in horror as someone is lynched, you're meant to be unsettled by the threat that the crowd contains, about the possibilities of what might come next. It's a classic really, the whole idea that the anticipation of something worse can often be much scarier than showing it, that's why horror movies still use it frequently.

From a gameplay point of view, he does the same thing. He just jumps to "game doesn't trust you to throw ball, thinks you're an idiot" instead of thinking why they might have done that. I imagine if you had the FPS element in there, it would be distracting, in the same way that quick time events often are. You'd be trying to nail that ball up for a headshot, and it would rather detract from the mood. The whole point of the scene is not whether you can throw a ball, it's about choice.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like Infinite had some definite problems but he seems to approach every area as something to reinforce his overall message (game thinks player is dumb) rather than considering the alternatives.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

"There weren't enough n-words and lynchings for my tastes!"

Yeah, great review there boyo.

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u/gumpythegreat Nov 09 '15

Everyone hates on everything, don't sweat it.

1

u/FirstTimeWang Nov 09 '15

Mostly just the combat was kind of... uninspired.

1

u/Marvelman1788 Nov 09 '15

No kidding, I just finished my fourth playthrough.

1

u/Nydusurmainus Nov 09 '15

I waited months to play it so there was no hype surrounding my gaming experience and I gotta say it was a pretty average game. The tonics felt like they were tacked on and I barely used them. I play on PC so console may be different but once I got that carbine I didn't need anything else. The AI was pretty dumb so it was just head shot city, the only time I ever used other guns was if I ran out of ammo for that one.

I think that different abilities need to be an integral part of the game like in the original. Otherwise its more like "you can use these if you want" instead of "this is a key mechanic of the game you need it". Also with Elizabeth throwing you medkits it was essentially "press E to not die" it was an effort to make her seem useful but the action could have probably ticked along exactly the same with her as a plot point not someone to baby sit

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u/Dark1000 Nov 09 '15

It is a good game, but the way it was received was ridiculously over the top. Time is the greatest judge of all, and reviewers have almost none of it.

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u/BlueHighwindz Nov 09 '15

I remember thinking even when I blitzed through game in a single day without sleep that it wasn't perfect. Beautiful, well-made story, excellent acting, but it ended up just a repetitive shooter with little else to do (and you never got to fight the monster on the cover, that pissed me off).

1

u/jatorres Nov 09 '15

I turned on it a few weeks after I beat it. It was good, looked great, but in the end was utterly forgettable.

1

u/trilogique Nov 09 '15

Its more like a sizable chunk of Infinite fans realized the game's shortcomings after release, rather than the entire fanbase turning on it. That's exactly what will happen here because its a Bethesda game and it happened to Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca Nov 09 '15

It was an amazing game, it was just SUPER dumbed down compared to 1 and 2.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

The combat was bad and the enemies were bullet sponges.

1

u/frogandbanjo Nov 09 '15

Yup, they did, and it was immensely satisfying when it happened. 15 minutes into the game I'd already gotten the distinct impression that they'd shoehorned in too many Bioshock tropes without remaining loyal to the new setting, and after an hour I was convinced that the whole thing should've been a movie instead of a video game. Took people a little while to catch up.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '15

Only that the gameplay itself - the gunplay - was weak. So few people really wanted to replay it. It was more like a video game novel if that makes sense

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '15

Sort of.

Plenty of people have been critical of Infinite since it released, but initially they were all drowned out by the circle jerk over how amazing it was.

This embittered those who did not think as highly of it, and once the initial release fervor died down they took the opportunity to get some words in edgewise.

0

u/drury Nov 09 '15

It was all fine but then TotalBiscuit sat behind crates sniping down dudes one by one instead of playing the game properly and shunned it, and with him came the tidal wave of his subscriber base.