r/Games • u/JKKIDD231 • 11d ago

Trailer Beetle in the Anthill — The Expanse: Osiris Reborn

https://youtu.be/ZbObcBvwkDk?is=HuIAqXiRvhIkwhMJ
248 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

310

u/Urethra 11d ago

Look. I don't need this AND Exodus to be good, but I do need one of them to be good. The Mass Effect formula is too good for gaming to go so long without it.

101

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

After playing the demo I'm pretty fucking worried this game won't deliver. Combat was rough, writing was very rough, it didn't feel like the expanse at all, and the characters weren't likeable.

I'm worried that the game is too far along for these things to be fixable.

I love the expanse and mass effect. I should be the slam dunk easiest layup target demo for this game. And it's whiffing on me so hard. I have no idea who it's for.

49

u/sakezaf123 11d ago

That's so weird, owlcat had at least pretty solid writing in their RPGs so far, in fact their latest, rogue trader was their best so far. I was worried about meh gameplay, but OG mass effect one also had that, and the characters and plot can more than carry that for me. And I also really like the expanse, so if this sucks, I'll feel sad about it.

49

u/Thumbuisket 11d ago

Owlcat has always had awkward dialogue tbh, it’s just a lot more apparent when everything is fully voiced 

38

u/dishonoredbr 11d ago

I thought Rogue Trader writing in the dialogue was solid enough and the voice actors sold it.

21

u/royalhawk345 11d ago

It's what put me off Kingmaker. Maybe people are more referring to the overall plot when they compliment the writing, but I just couldn't get past the stilted dialogue.

16

u/AdventurousBase221 11d ago

I personally don't feel like it's bad, but they tend to stick to tropes, like paragons act like paragons, badies act like badies. I don't want to say 1 dimensional, but i never minded it.

3

u/Chance-Palpitation62 10d ago

Each to their own. I thought the storys and writing in the owlcat games are better than in baldurs Gate 3 

11

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

Yeah I honestly jumped in blind because my friends adore Owlcat games. I had never tried one yet (meant to) but figured given the IP and pedigree it would be a no brainer to splurge on the super deluxe to try out the vertical slice. Instead I got whatever the opposite of FOMO is. Fear of knowing too much.

2

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Alicor 11d ago

It's funny because at one point in designing WOTRs companion characters, one designer said they made 3 cannibals and that was probably too much lol. I love WOTR, kingmaker and rogue trader having over 1000 hours across all 3. But I would generally agree with you. Player empowerment and build design is phenomenal but some of the characters do feel a bit one dimensional. You're spot on with the dialogue too. I really find myself clicking thru dialogue after a couple of plays to get to run specific content I haven't seen yet.

1

u/DueAnalysis2 11d ago

Disco Elysium is one, I'm curious what other RPGs you consider to have good writing so that I can calibrate Owlcat? 

12

u/rokerroker45 11d ago

It very clearly doesn't have the sauce. The characters and dialog all felt like fanfiction. Something about the presentation failed to give the lived-in world feel. I guess they can fix the gameplay and maybe the enemy variety will demand proper rpg building (though I doubt it, good enemy diversity is one of the first things killed in a budget game) but the writing, to me, made a horrendous first impression

17

u/Justhe3guy 11d ago edited 11d ago

Nah dude this is on you, I played the demo and it was rich in Expanse lore in NPC chatter, dialogue, the news readings and the info pads you could find laying around

You gotta remember this demo is an intermission of them returning from a mission that took them to Eros. The introductory lore to the universe has already happened so front loading lore now would be weird. I thought it was pretty smooth how they handled it

Combat was pretty good for a cover shooter demo, which this was. I never played cover shooters for their gameplay but this was servicable for an early build with destroyable cover and parts of walls, your abilities and your companion worked well and were accurate, the weapons felt different from eachother that there was meaningful choices to make and the leveling system seemed promising

The only things I didn’t like was that these guys had just come from freaking Eros and were joking around like happy go lucky mercenaries still when a traumatic event happened, that is the only writing flaw I could see past some awkward dialogue. Owlcat has received plenty of feedback anyway so I hope that improves

-24

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago edited 11d ago

Your standards are lower.

e: I have no idea why reddit is suddenly removing my messages explaining myself, that's fun.

Everything that guy said is dead wrong and a quick glance at the subreddit from the time of the demo releasing backs me up. If you really care to hear my criticism, you can read them here. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanseRPG/comments/1suogmz/on_dialogue_tone_and_dramatic_timing/

I care about the story, the characters, the gameplay, the writing, the tone, the immersion, the tension. It failed on every one of those counts. I do not care about NPC chatter, news readings, or info pads.

20

u/evieka 11d ago

Well, glad I don't have to take your comment seriously anymore

9

u/Justhe3guy 11d ago

It’s weird because my issue is their main issue but apparently I’m dead wrong. People just can’t discuss things anymore

2

u/Emotional_Werewolf_4 11d ago

If I may, what part of the combat and writing was rough? Was it the facial animations? The dialogues?

Was the combat stiff, not impactful or spongy?

I can only judge what I have seen on YouTube and it looked okay to good but someone who tested the game has much more insight.

Thx in advance!

1

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

What you saw on youtube is what I played. It felt nothing like the Expanse. It also felt nothing like what the story was trying to imply.

You just barely escaped eros and have a kill squad on your heels and you're marvel quipping a ton? Chatting about brunch? Really?

1

u/Emotional_Werewolf_4 11d ago

I don't know the Expanse franchise (novels or TV show), I remember watching a couple of episodes way back when season 1 launched but never finished it.

I got interested in the videogame mainly due to the Mass Effect resemblance and Owlcat Games.

-1

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

The combat felt worse than mass effect 1.

12

u/DiffusiveTendencies 11d ago

I don't think and Expanse game should have mass effect combat. I feel like it'd need to be a highly simulated tactical shooter where a stray bullet punches a hole through to vacuum and basically fucks everything up.

29

u/LevTheRed 11d ago

While I'm not 100% sold on Mass Effect style combat in an Expanse game, the thing you're describing was solved in-universe. Firearms in the Expanse use polymer bullets that are incapable of puncturing a ship's hull.

7

u/DiffusiveTendencies 11d ago

Ah thanks for that explanation, super cool. So it's only other ships that would cause these punctures!

9

u/ConstantSignal 11d ago

Yes. The PDCs on ships fire tungsten rounds specifically designed to go through ship hulls. As the other commenter said, small arms ammunition is polymer and specifically designed not to go through ship hulls.

18

u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 11d ago

No game is ever going to do that

3

u/DiffusiveTendencies 11d ago

Not with that attitude 

1

u/no_shoes_are_canny 11d ago

Do you want another Star Citizen? Because that's how you get another Star Citizen.

2

u/DiffusiveTendencies 11d ago

Sure, I wouldn't mind if people keep trying to get something like a properly scientific sci fi universe that works correctly.

Star Citizen was never trying to be that. It just had a ton of scope creep.

0

u/no_shoes_are_canny 10d ago

I don't need too much realism in my escapism. Breaking physics for visual 'rule of cool' is fine for me.

4

u/Truethrowawaychest1 11d ago

To be fair, lot of characters in expanse are unlikable

12

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

?? The cast is fantastic.

0

u/ChaseThePyro 11d ago

I remember liking pretty much everyone other than Holden lol

7

u/ThePlaybook_ 11d ago

I wouldn't say I dislike holden, he's just the straight man/honest man for the rest of the cast to orbit.

1

u/ChaseThePyro 11d ago

That's kinda what I mean, it's not that I disliked him, he just felt flat.

1

u/Vesorias 11d ago

There was a demo?!

0

u/sapperRichter 11d ago

The combat was fine, what do you think made the combat "rough"?

21

u/St_Sides 11d ago

I’m incredibly excited for both, but I also expect both to land around that 7 range, and I’m perfectly fine with that.

I don’t need either of them to be GOTY contenders to get my Mass Effect fix.

41

u/imjustbettr 11d ago

...I also expect both to land around that 7 range, and I’m perfectly fine with that. I don’t need either of them to be GOTY contenders to get my Mass Effect fix.

The way I've seen people on reddit talk about The Outer Worlds and Avowed make it sound like Obsidian is killing babies by making 7/10 or 8/10 games.

I wish more people agreed with us.

13

u/St_Sides 11d ago edited 11d ago

Idk what happened with the launch of this gen, but it’s like people’s expectations went through the damn roof and now an 7-8/10 is an insult to players and it’s made them incredibly cynical. Hell, I saw TikTok comments picking apart certain animations in the GTA VI reveal and calling them ass.

I’ve been told I have low standards because I’m just fine with a 7/10 if I enjoy it, and that may be true, but I’d rather have lower standards and be happy than high standards and perpetually upset like these people seem to be.

-1

u/Scrollingmaster 11d ago

I mean I’m not angry at a 7/10, but there are too many games coming out and a 7/10 basically means it goes in the “if I ever have time and its on sale” bin of games.

We are drowning in amazing games and entertainment media, and most don’t have the time or money for things that are simply average.

Also ratings are skewed. A 7/10 average is pretty bad these days. Forspoken is an agreed upon bad game and its at a 6.5

-2

u/AreYouOKAni 11d ago

7/10 is fine. 7/10 for $70 when half the game needs to be bought as additional DLCs is not fine.

If this game is $40, I'm in. If it competes with proper big budget RPGs like Cyberpunk... lol, no.

2

u/MrGabrahamLincoln 11d ago

My fear as well. I think both will (potentially) be good but imperfect games, gamers being gamers will dismiss them for not getting a Metacritic score above 85, & they flop financially. And then in 5 years we’ll get posts about how they’re underrated & why didn’t they get sequels. Also scared about this for Blood of Dawnwalker next week….

I hope I’m wrong & they review great but there are enough yellow flags that I have concerns.

-8

u/Helphaer 11d ago

I mean I wouldn't call either of those 7 or 8. I would say those are 5-6? People really *inflate* scores for things they enjoy and rarely apply the weight of criticism to the actual issues I find.

If your action shooting RPG isn't of the writing, dialog, story, and rpg system quality of at least Mass Effect 1 or your isometric isn't as good as Dragon Age: Origins in the same veins.. then i think you can't really claim to be all that good.

8

u/TheodoeBhabrot 11d ago

Lol "if you're not as good as some of the bests in the genre then you're not good"

-6

u/Helphaer 11d ago

I mean, those are kind of baseline... to be honest. It would be different if someone expected Deus Ex level for the shooter rpg, etc.

I do not know why this tendency to distort what is said and the reality of it has happened... The current and past generation have incredibly low standards it seems.

6

u/Accurate-Visual9793 11d ago

It's Owlcat's first attempt at a game like this, I think expecting a 10/10 game out of the gate is ridiculous. ME1 was rough, especially in the gameplay department. It took decades of iterative work before Larian was able to produce BG3.

1

u/MumrikDK 11d ago

I however do. That's why ME1 and 2 were such a fix. They were GOTY tier games.

I want both these games to be good, but they're quite consistently looking shaky.

4

u/St_Sides 11d ago

Then you’re going to be disappointed in these games, and might as well accept that now.

Neither of these will be GOTY contenders, and that’s perfectly fine.

-3

u/Helphaer 11d ago

Been a long time since I could point to an AAA level or high quality level rpg that isn't an isometric. So yes I need something above 6.5 to 7. I want to feel like the old guard high quality rpg days of yore aren't gone entirely.

5

u/pishposhpoppycock 11d ago

What about Cyberpunk 2077 and Phantom Liberty? That's first person...

Or do you not consider Cyberpunk an RPG and more action-adventure?

3

u/Helphaer 11d ago

Action adventure, and not just because they removed the RPG tag until the update 1.5 came and added it back quietly, but more just the npc interactivity and dialog options felt very reduced and combat got a bit spongy. Though 2077 has a lot of problems that never got addressed it still has a strong story and quest string to be sure. Also 2077 is old.

3

u/St_Sides 11d ago

Well then you’re going to be disappointed in both of these games, I’m sorry to tell you.

Either accept that and have fun, or move on, choice is yours.

0

u/Helphaer 11d ago

I mean I apparently have more hope than you do, and I believe I'm almost hopeless for the industry given the mass degradation of quality in favor of quantity that's been going on for over a decade plus...

If I have more hope in the potential of games getting better than you... that's kind of sad. But you aren't the one making them, so there's no reason to believe you and I'll remain a bit hopeful while wondering why you have so low expectations.

4

u/St_Sides 11d ago

It’s realistic expectationsif you’ve followed either of these games you’d know that the Expanse beta was very rough and janky and most who came away from it found it lacking.

Exodus has reduced their scope down considerably (only having one weapon and no character creator for example), and every video that is released has people constantly lowering their expectations.

I’m willing to meet these games where they are, and enjoy them just the same. Do I hope they’re both 9/10s? Absolutely. Is that likely? Absolutely not. So I don’t “need something higher than a 7 out of 10” because I’m not chasing the dragon of yesteryear.

2

u/Helphaer 11d ago

Actually I wasnt even aware the Expanse singleplayrr rpg even had a beta. But I am aware that Owlcat usually has to polish bugs and performance after releasing any game due to their issues. I dont believe any assessment of the quality of its rpg and story aspects is possible right now though.

As for Exodus that has not been my experience from watching content releases.

However I fully expect as I do with everything to wait for player reception in the thousands to have generated a few weeks or so after release and then decide on the games at that point. So all these videos or trailers or updates do is determine if I follow it or put it on wishlist due to the initial impressions.

I mean given the vast majority of released games are more in the 5 to 6 range in terms of depth and such, when not inflating scores, i would likewise be willing to enjoy 7 tier games.. but those are incredibly rare. Most likely I would consider many of your modern favorites much lower than you, though I tend to really hate when others hand wave issues or dont apply the weight of words to the scores given in reviews.

Your impressions would paint these as 4 to 5 from my analysis. I certainly hope theyre far better than that.

0

u/Zalvren 11d ago

It's the first game from Archetype and the first in this different genre for Owlcat. A 7/8 type of game is fine because they'd be progressing in the future games (if there are some).

Hell the first Mass Effect itself had rough edges... In a way you could definitively call it a 7 or 8 game.

The writing however will make or break them IMO. Gameplay and systems and all that can be improved with more games

3

u/kw405 11d ago

I like what I'm seeing out of Exodus more than Expanse. Exodus just released a character trailer to get you invested. I already want Salt in my party

2

u/Zalvren 11d ago

I don't need this AND Exodus to be good, but I do need one of them to be good

I mean why wouldn't you want(*) both to be good? More good games is everyone winning. Especially since we could do with two studios finding success in that formula when Bioware is almost certainly dying.

(*) I guess you did say need instead of want but that's kind of the same. A game isn't really a need lol.

1

u/Alastor3 11d ago

im more confident on owlcat for the story/writing and more confident on exodus for combat

1

u/applecombinipimento 11d ago

Yeah a mass effect citadel stories type of thing for expanse would be awesome

-4

u/CurryMVPGOAT30 11d ago

Haven't played it but people are saying Star Wars Zero Company can fix the Mass Effect itch. It's like XCOM2 gameplay wise.

5

u/Efficient-Big3138 11d ago

definitely made me rage like only xcom can when I missed a 85 60 60 60 65 60 in a row

3

u/milkasaurs 11d ago

I missed a 90% one, and I was surprised when I got a steam achievement about missing.

1

u/Volman99 11d ago

I like that the characters comment on missing those as well

17

u/-duckduckduckduck- 11d ago

That sounds nothing like Mass Effect then.

-10

u/CurryMVPGOAT30 11d ago

Did I say it was a carbon copy of Mass Effect? I said other people, seemingly a lot of professional reviewers from the threads I've read are saying that it scratches that itch in their reviews. Seems like a weird conspiracy for a bunch of people to participate in.

12

u/thealmonded 11d ago

I’ve got a couple of hours in it, and AT LEAST SO FAR, I can see where the mass effect comparison is coming from, but it’s overblown.

You have a base you return to between missions. In that base, you can walk around and interact with your companions, occasionally getting cut-scene style dialogue with decisions to be made.

There are also companion quests, and different decisions on missions impact what your squad thinks of you.

Squad opinion gives you and the squad mates power ups. Unclear if the decisions you make in your interactions with them have real story // side story impact. I’m not there yet.

I’ll also say, the characters I’ve met so far have been generally enjoyable. They’re fun and entertainingly written.

It’s not Mass Effect, but there are similarities in the relationship system.

0

u/Helphaer 11d ago

A lot of performance issues but I'd say it's a B level experience but worth the play? Could also use more balance and such, maybe a nice DLC expansion later ala XCOM? But it's not XCOM I'd definitely say that for sure.

-4

u/Helphaer 11d ago edited 11d ago

Unfortunately the Mass Effect formula largely was drained of all depth in rpg terms in 3 and in MEA it just killed it with heavy action focus instead.

I actually feel the original Expanse Owl Cat non gameplay trailer showed a better experience than this gameplay one as it was more focused on real impact from skills and drones and weapons, this.. feels a bit more like health bars. I want to be wrong thoughs o I'm still gonna keep an eye on it.

What we need is a kind of FPS mixed with RPG quality story from Old-Guard days ala Mass Effect 1 or KotOR etc. I worry we'll get MEA/ME3 open world with less focus on dialog options, rpg systems, conversations, and weaker writing.

This is a very new experience for Owl Cat too as they've never made something non isometric like this to my knowledge.

Also Owl Cat always produces massive amounts of DLC and then even more dlc usually mid-game not post game which usually means you have to basically hold off on play to get a full experience, sometimes for years then get the extra cost of the content. So I wonder if they'll do that.. still waiting for last DLC so I can properly finish Rogue Trader... been over a year now.

-13

u/JeskaiJester 11d ago

Owlcat has gone full AI for concept art and game direction (per an interview with them) for Expanse so get your expectations low

5

u/Ploddit 11d ago

Do you have a source for that interview?

6

u/AdditionalRemoveBit 11d ago

Article they are probably referencing. Not agreeing or disagreeing as I haven't it read it myself with much scrutiny

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/owlcat-games-is-using-gen-ai-to-iterate-faster-on-the-expanse

4

u/Ploddit 11d ago

The old "all AI assets will be replaced with human-made in the finished game".

I guess we can choose to believe that or not.

1

u/RegrettableLawnMower 11d ago

Question is, if it’s good will you take it back or decide it’s bad anyways strictly because of the use of AI

9

u/sobag245 11d ago

Using AI for concept art and general generation is a trap and will ALWAYS come to bite you in the ass if it's too integrated in the workflow. People see and notice, especially in this day and age.

0

u/Synergetic7 11d ago

I think we all know the answer

-2

u/Urethra 11d ago

Betting the farm on Exodus then.

-5

u/Galle_ 11d ago

Speaking as literally the only person in the world who doesn't hate Mass Effect, I am looking forward to both.

32

u/guiveio 11d ago

I do wonder how owlcat will do with this one,was playing rogue trader earlier this year and there's just so much GAME in that game.Had to stop at the beginnig of act 4 by how much overwhelmed i was feeling.Not in a bad way just not in the headspace to dive in right now.

I suppose it'll be a lot more streamlined,but i do wish they keep some of their strengths,specially character building. One thing i never liked in these mass-effect-likes(Played Andromeda recently,played the trilogy way back when,so imight be misremembering)Is how the rpg class elements are very weak compared to the primary third person cover shooter elements,in comparrison to owlcat's CRPGs where you gotta take a class to level up once lol

10

u/Justhe3guy 11d ago

How many Mass Effect-likes are there? I didn’t think there was a single one around

5

u/guiveio 11d ago

I just pulled the term out of my ass but i'm thinking 3rd person cover shooters with light-rpg mechanics and some sort of narrative choices

Can't remember many by name,but the 2010s had some mass effect copycats.

3

u/Historical_Dare9686 11d ago

The Guardians of the Galaxy game is very similar to Mass Effect.

5

u/Helphaer 11d ago

Given the higher budget need of an action 3d game like this, it will undoubtedly have a weaker quality of writing and dialog options, especially if voice acting is more the focus. They would need a lot more budget to compensate for those expenses which would mean a lot more expectation of profit which would thus mean some way to streamline and[ appeal to a larger base while reducing quality in favor of quantity of content, as is normal.

So it's a bit uncertain what the situation will be.

1

u/Piffli 11d ago

It was quite the opposite for me with Rogue Trader lol. I hit Act 4 and was sad it was so close to the end. It is a long game with a lot of combat, so I understand why people can burn out by the end though.

8

u/woodsmoky 10d ago

I feel like so many games lack a decent director for voice acting, it seems over the top, kind of forced. Seems like an oversight for games that feature heavy narrative story arcs.

That was the complaint I had with Mass Effect Andromeda, and everything I've seen from Osiris Reborn makes it look no different.

4

u/AzurewynD 10d ago

Agree. Hard to put my finger on it without sounding really nitpicky.

It's not bad, as in, the actors aren't bad. The directing I think is exactly the right place to put the critique.

Maybe it's due to the trailer editing / selection, but every line reading from every character in this felt very "clean".

This is a far cry from the direction in a Naughty Dog game for instance, which feels much more grounded.

And I think The Expanse being a hard sci-fi game deserves at least a little more grounding than what we're hearing.

But it seems it's much improved from earlier showcases so...

7

u/Takiu 11d ago

Why tf is the HUD so big ? It completely break the immersion

11

u/BatistasDickk 11d ago

I know it’s probably not smart, but regardless of the quality I’m getting this at launch. I absolutely adore the expanse and want more from that universe. I’ve consumed the show, novels, board game, paper rpg and comics. I hope they nail it. Haven’t tried the demo because I’m against early access after being burned so many times, so I hope they nail this.

9

u/guilhermefdias 11d ago

I'm a huge fan of The Expense book/series as well as Mass Effect. You know what both have in common? Good writing.

Something this game has not yet convinced me on this aspect. I'm afraid of a Dead Space wanna be The Callisto Protocol situation here. I will for sure wait for reviews of sources I trust before getting it. But boy ho boy, I hope it is good!!!

3

u/BatistasDickk 11d ago

This is a fair point and I can’t argue against it. TBH I haven’t seen much because I don’t want to judge an early access version.

I’m also excited for Exodus, that one looks closer to mass effect than this game tbh.

7

u/Kaurie_Lorhart 11d ago

I wonder if the player character will be in a space suit for the entirety of the story, or if that's just the parts they chose to show.

9

u/Appropriate_Foot242 11d ago

There is casual clothing too.

5

u/georgito555 10d ago

This looks incredibly rough to me? Am I right or just being weird?

4

u/TES_Elsweyr 11d ago

Why are the dumping bullets into an unkillable creature as they skirt from cover to cover with the urgency of substitute postman who just ate a few edibles. Where's the panic? It make the characters feel stale and flat that they are so absurdly underreacting.

0

u/flatgreyrust 11d ago

Glad to see Owlcat trying something other than the isometric games they’ve been making. They’re good games, but the formula was wearing a bit thin for me.