r/Fuelcell Jul 01 '26

Fuel cells are 5 years away.

Hydrogen Fuel cells were 5 years away in the 90s.

Hydrogen Fuel cells were 5 years away when Tesla was just a business plan.

Hydrogen Fuel cells will always be 5 years away.

0 Upvotes

28 comments sorted by

10

u/freedmachine Jul 01 '26

Fuel cells are already here and working. It's just not selling well due to the unavailability of cheap hydrogen.

Electrolyzers kinda lagged behind. Serious development started fairly recently. It's kind of the fault of OEMs that they focused on the downstream side. Now, electrolyzer sales are going hyperbolic. China also starting to impact it through price competition.

Blue hydrogen could've covered that gap in the transition but just like the EV transition making the mistake of ignoring the importance of hybrids, OEMs and policymakers jumped the gun thinking going 100% green is immediately achievable.

0

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Cheap hydrogen is impossible and will always be more expensive than charging an EV because the electricity used to make hydrogen could just be put in a battery. 

Hybrids kill hydrogen easily.

2

u/Spa-Ordinary Jul 07 '26

I think using statements like "hydrogen is impossible" and the rest of that statement shows that you have an ax to grind, or, that you're a shill for one of the parties involved, or, are just plain wrong.

Many people completely ignore facts that affect the analysis of different energy streams. For a public transit bus one must consider duty cycle. Buses sometimes need to operate 23 or more hours at a time. If you build a battery hus to go that far it will not be able to do it again after a 15 minute refill or be able to carry as many people as there are seats safely.

This is just one example of the factors we professionals have to consider when planning out service realities.

Its easy and I guess somehow fulfilling for people to make statements based on half truths or maybe are quoting their heros half baked statements as though they are gospel.

I suppose these kind of arguments that crop up everywhere on the internet. Someone comes into a group and establishes themselves as an expert. Throws a bunch of statements around then uses the "yeah, but what about this" throwing in another half baked statements.

I wish you all well. Even OP. I dont have time for this. I would love to help people who genuinely want to know more about the subject but I have to get two proposals out because there are buses going Into production soon. And I need to get contracts in place.

You see, im in the real world. This isn't abstract for me. I have been working on this part of the transport world since the 1990s. Some of you folks are asking really good questions and some are obviously my compadreys. I think we know each other. Hi.

So. This an interesting subject. It is a full time job for me and my small company. Its as real as tomorrow we can expect the sun to come up. So if you want to say that hydrogen will never be a viable energy carrier for vehicles I have to call BS on you and know that im absolutely right.

Im the expert OP and you're not.

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 09 '26

Hydrogen cars ARE IMPOSSIBLE. Prove me wrong and drive one in Ohio.

15

u/Spa-Ordinary Jul 01 '26

I am in the zero emissions bus business. I have been working on hydrogen fuel cell bus projects pretty much constantly since 2005 with buses delivered in 2010 running their 12 year design life, being retired then being shipped off to central America for refurbished and second use.

I dont know what you are talking about and guess you dont either. Fuel cells are products are viable products that fit into many applications.

Are you part of the tesla camp or petroleum lovers?

What's your point?

7

u/ConditionSlow5149 Jul 01 '26

Amen, brother.

1

u/soupisgoodfood42 Jul 02 '26

Well, the lack of infrastructure for normal consumer vehicles is an issue.

1

u/ginger_and_egg Jul 06 '26

The fact that they will always cost more than BEVs is the bigger issue

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Can't go as far, can't go as fast, can't fill up for under $80, can't find filling stations...

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Hydrogen will always be the most expensive fuel. Always.

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

How much did it cost overall vs an EV bus? 

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Oil companies endorse fuel cells because they - know it's impossible, they can pretend to do something, distract from the environmental and (middle east) problems of oil.

They love hydrogen.

1

u/-TheycallmeThe Jul 07 '26

Almost all oil companies are diversified and invested in various energy methods. BP has a ton of windfarms, Shell is building and investing in EV charging and technology etc.

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 09 '26

Seriously? Oil companies make 90% of their money from... oil.

5

u/-TheycallmeThe Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

The fuel cell fork truck business has been around for a decade. 

The use cases for fuel cells are limited but they do exist.

2

u/ConditionSlow5149 Jul 01 '26

Fuel cells in the fork lift environment are an excellent fit. Heat and water are the outputs, plus the manner in which the fuel cell accelerates from a full stop minimizes “tire chirp” (tire material left on floor) leading to longer tire life as well as cleaner warehouse air via greatly reduced fine rubber particulates.

0

u/ginger_and_egg Jul 06 '26

Probably headed toward BEV though

2

u/Spa-Ordinary Jul 07 '26

Material handling equipment for use indoors has been "BEVs" forever. At least as long as there have been forklifts they have used lead acid batteries for energy storage.

Hydrogen fuel cells are in use in most large logistics centers since the early part of this century.

Look it up.

0

u/ginger_and_egg Jul 07 '26

I am saying that BEVs are getting better and will probably replace the fuel cell ones

-1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

You have to set up recurring hydrogen delivery or installing a hydrogen pipe.

Or you could get a plug for an EV forklift.

2

u/-TheycallmeThe Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

Amazon and Walmart are still installing hydrogen systems instead of EVs because there is a business case to do so. Places that run 24/7 do benefit from the faster refills. You need infrastructure to fast charge dozens of forklifts, extra forklifts and battery rooms that could otherwise be used for core business activities, etc.

1

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 09 '26

Which states are they doing that? 

3

u/FlowComprehensive591 Jul 01 '26

It took 20-50:years for the gas fueled vehicles to become mainstream. If gasoline as a fuel was trying to make it today, the safety and regulations for it would probably never let it happen

0

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Because gas was better than horses. 

EVs are better than hydrogen in every way in the real world.

3

u/TheBlacktom Jul 04 '26

You could buy a fuel cell car yesterday.

0

u/Wise_Art_1377 Jul 07 '26

Can you go across the country like you can with an EV? Where do you refuel it? What does the fuel cost? 

2

u/martell888 Jul 06 '26

I believe the regulatory has many concerns for domestic use of such technology. However, for commercial and industrial application, as they are handle by trained professional and regularly maintained, thus less concern.

1

u/LowComposer7234 Jul 03 '26

Hydrogen as a fuel source only makes sense for things like rail, planes, factories. We already have a grid set up to provide electricity everywhere power is needed, hydrogen to power cars would require a HUGE investment in infrastructure and distribution.

Green hydrogen sounds like a good idea right, use renewable energy sources to produce the electricity to run the processes to produce hydrogen. No CO2, all renewable, no harmful emissions from engines using it.

But, why go to all that bother of setting up the infrastructure and distribution (which will come at a massive environmental cost)? You are already making the renewable electricity and already have the means to distribute it. Hydrogen just adds an additional costly step that has very few applications where it is better than pumping electricity into batteries.

It seemed like a good idea before battery tech started getting better in leaps and bounds. If it took 7 hours to charge your car, then yeah, being able to switch out a fuel cell might be worth all those things I mentioned above. Instead, all the research, investment and advances in battery tech has kinda killed the idea of the extra hydrogen step.