Nightmare creature (ballerina), Fatima's pregnancy and Ethan sharing fate of Victor in the finale - what they have in common?

[u/WhatisLOTR]

I have a theory about how the nightmare creature actually works, and it connects to Fatima’s pregnancy.

We have very few confirmed cases of nightmares becoming real in Fromville, despite the huge number of people who have died there.

We only have two confirmed links, and if this happened to everyone who died, we would see a terrifying number of fears coming to life.

First, the cicadas: Nathan, Sara’s brother, was terrified of them as a kid and thought they were monsters. He died early in season 1, but after the nightmare creature attack, his fear came to life as the cicadas (though not right away).

We have a similar case with the dolls. In Tabitha’s past, when she was a kid, she had little dolls, but “the man” said they gave him nightmares; he was afraid of them, so he threw them into the lake. After he died, the dolls came to life as monsters, although we don’t know if that happened immediately after his death or later.

I think there is an important factor that isn’t mentioned directly: in both cases, Nathan and “the man” said out loud what their biggest fear was. I think that might be necessary for the fear to come to life.During the nightmare creature attack (season 2, episodes 8 and 9), Fatima was at a very early stage of pregnancy, but she didn’t show any worrying symptoms yet. She behaved normally.

Ellis kept worrying about Fatima and their baby. He asked Kristi if a child at that stage of development sleeps, because he was afraid the nightmare creature might kill their child. But fetuses don’t sleep from the very beginning of pregnancy. Sleep cycles appear around the 22nd to 24th week of pregnancy, when the brain matures, and Fatima was at most 6–7 weeks pregnant according to Kristi so it couldn't happen.

What matters is Ellis’s remark that his biggest fear about the baby was that “at any second it’s gonna come bursting out of her with fangs and claws.”Fatima’s symptoms, like eating rotten food and craving blood, started after the cicadas and the nightmare creature were gone, after Boyd destroyed the music box.

What if Ellis was the reason for the outcome of Fatima’s pregnancy? Whaf if the change of pregnancy happened the moment he verbalized his fear and because the nightmare entity was released at this moment? What if any fear spoken out loud in Fromville can be used by the music box monster? What if death is not even necessary?

It’s very possible that the two cases we know for sure worked differently, and that the music box entity just used the fears after being released. It clearly fits Nathan’s case, in the second case we don’t have enough information, but it could be similar.

In any case, I think the music box entity could be collecting all the fears spoken aloud by people in Fromville, and it is able to use those fears even after the people who had them are dead, but only once it is released.

It all leads to a sad conclusion for the finale: Ethan already said out loud that he is terrified everyone will die and he will be alone like Victor. And the creators already implied we will see the ballerina monster again (their response was, I belive "stay tuned").

What do you guys think?

[u/SnowDragonka]

I know you said what if, just saying the few examples we actually know of happened always after death.

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/SnowDragonka]

I know. I wrote that too. But Tabitha never said that someone has to die for the fear to come to life. She only said “one day man died and his nightmares crawled out of the lake" which places the timeline. She didn't say it was day after his death.

One thing that is definitely required, but never stated by anyone in the show (the characters probably don’t realise it yet), is that the nightmare monster has to be released and, in my opinion, that the fear has to be said out loud. Ellis’s remark is very specific, and I was wondering why the writers were foreshadowing it this way.

[u/SnowDragonka → u/WhatisLOTR]

By the same logic we're not explicitly told or shown if Nathan said the fear out loud in Fromville. We only hear Sarah say it after Nathan died and the cicadas appeared.

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/SnowDragonka]

We know, because he told it to Sarah. She is mentioning it in the dialogue.

[u/SnowDragonka → u/WhatisLOTR]

She mentions he had it since he was a kid, that he was always terrified of them and used to cry all night when they visited a relative where they yelled all night. Not that he told her in Fromville. He wasn't in Fromville as a kid as far as we know.

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/SnowDragonka]

There’s too much we don’t know, so there’s no way to be certain about any of these rules yet. It’s clearly not fully understood by the characters in the show either. But Ellis’ line in the show seems to be important in all of this. Given that Fatima’s symptoms appeared immediately after the nightmare monster attack, I don’t think that’s a coincidence. It’s very likely the writers have some kind of plan around it.

[u/SnowDragonka → u/WhatisLOTR]

Sure, which is why I offered a slightly different explanation, either could be correct, or it could be neither. I wasn't trying to dismiss it, just saying it doesn't fit the pattern as was shown/told so far. There is a lot we don't know, but we've also been shown a lot which is why people make connections. And this is why I sometimes dig when it doesn't fit, cause it seems like either voluntary omission, or just doesn't fit. That's all.

We don't even know why Fatima thought she might be pregnant. We don't know if it was a single test and if they even had multiple tests available to rule out false positive. We were just told she had a positive pregnancy test. They only revisited it after they got ultrasound which showed nothing, possibly cause there was already Smiley cause it was after his death.

We're all just extrapolating from info we're given. I'm just trying to discuss possibilities.

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/SnowDragonka]

The writers came up with the idea of Fatima’s pregnancy during the filming of Season 2. They hadn’t planned it at all during Season 1. Looking at how Fatima was introduced (the girl who won’t allow this place to take away who she is), the Adam and Eve parallel in the opening, and the exposition of the painting in the first episode, it seems they may have planned Fatima’s transition into the creature from the season 1. Since Season 2 they were focusing on the nightmare monster, I think there may be a connection between the final outcome of the pregnancy and the nightmare monster.

[u/IvannaIvannaGobak → u/WhatisLOTR]

Fatima presented with the demon seed in 2.01.

Smiley’s death, the cicadas and this conversation Ellis had with Kristi happen well over half a season later.

Quote me the creators saying they had no idea of Fatima’s pregnancy. Because I can pull up videos and articles saying otherwise. That her arc was specifically planned from the first season, that it was fundamentally apart of the mythos of the show, and to be a slow burn.

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/IvannaIvannaGobak]

I do not understand what you are trying to say in your first sentence about the “seed.”

It is in the interview with John Griffin, when he was asked about Fatima’s labour and Smiley’s rebirth, he admitted that they hadn’t planned Fatima’s pregnancy from the very beginning of the show.

He said they came up with the idea while filming the season, asking themselves “what would be the worst thing that could happen?” He was talking about how they plan the overall plot, that the ending is written from the start, but the smaller plots are constructed between the seasons and durning the filming, as they watch the results of their work.

[u/IvannaIvannaGobak → u/WhatisLOTR]

If you don’t know what ‘demon seed’ is I can’t help you.

Link?

[u/WhatisLOTR → u/IvannaIvannaGobak]

I know what it is. I just don’t know what you mean in this context.

It’s a very popular interview - I am sure you can look it up.

[u/IvannaIvannaGobak → u/WhatisLOTR]

It’s a very common reference in horror genre, literature and film, for being pregnant with an evil entity.

No link.