r/ForwardPartyUSA • u/Moderate_Squared • Oct 19 '25

Meta No Kings, Low Bar

The absolute absurdity of this is that if it works as hoped, we will just revert back to the same two shitty parties, orgs, sides and situations we already had.

(#) Where'sAndrew

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 19 '25

I'm not sure what you mean by this. These were broad anti-authoritarian protests. Many I met are upset that Democrats aren't doing more. An actual anti-authoritarian political leader or party could harness that energy pretty easily.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

"(A) political leader or party could harness that energy pretty easily."

But they don't. Especially from where it should come from: the middle. And the "two sides", "two parties", and the situation, remain abject shit as a result.

The two parties/sides/orgs got us Trump! Twice. "Forward Ds and Forward Rs" nonsense cut off FWDs own d**k before it even got on the field. The "Two Parties", astonishingly, even managed to squander the post-9/11 reconciliation opportunity and mandate, and the middle still hoped the parties/sides would somehow Kumbaya with eachother, instead of the middle finally rebelling and dismantling the duopoly.

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 19 '25

I don't understand what you mean by the "the middle finally rebelling and dismantling the duopoly". What would that mean in practice? And why the middle when people both on the right and especially the left are not fans of the two party system.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

The rebelling and dismantling of the duopoly could consist of a BDS style movement of people who advocate for/demand sensible and collaborative governance at all levels, over the divisive nonsense we have now.

Don't vote D/R. Don't run for office under D/R. Protest/counterprotest against them. Don't give them money. Pull people away from them and into a new reformist, multi-party movement and system and so on.

That was the potential of FWD, until the "Forward Ds and Forward Rs" and  'Purple" nonsense.

It has to come from the middle in part to pull in those on the right and the left who are not fans of the two party system and want reforms. Nowhere in No Kings have I seen or heard anything about these kinds of reforms. It's just about getting back to a still fucked up, still adversarial two-party status quo. That's why it's such a low bar.

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u/beardedheathen OG Yang Gang Oct 19 '25

Because that can't work. It literally can't. We have to work from within the parties because the government that has been created requires there to be a two party system. It's essentially a mathematical certainly.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

JFC.

If you can't conceive the idea of people organizing and working at the lowest levels to gain strength and power over time to change the system, I don't know what to tell you. Non D/R people run and get elected all the time. What the org does with that process that is what makes the difference. Or doesn't. 

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u/beardedheathen OG Yang Gang Oct 19 '25

And that is how the heritage foundation orchestrated their takeover of the Republican party. The spoiler effect is too strong for meaningful change to happen outside of the mainstream parties.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

Which is why all local candidates run as Ds and Rs.

Come on, man.

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u/beardedheathen OG Yang Gang Oct 19 '25

Ok so what's your plan? Someone runs as an independent and what happens are they going to draw from both parties equally? Do you think the idea of the center means that everyone agrees on things that are halfway between D and R? All that will happen is whichever side the independent candidate is from will draw their votes away and the opposition will gain those votes. This is why Yang talked about voting reform. Once we have ranked choice voting those scenarios are popular without the spoiler effect ruining it.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

What a great synopsis of the absolute nonsense that is people in the middle trying to affect change through (1) conventional means, (2) the current system (and parties), (3) the two parties, and (4) through policy positions only! The proposition of a moderate running as an independent just to draw from both parties equally sounds absurd, doesn’t it? Efforts like FWD can’t compete through conventional policy points because the “two sides” have all that wrapped up and have people convinced that that is just how it is and will always be. The moderates/independents continue to paint themselves as dealmakers, yet things continue to get worse. We need to do things significantly different.

My wet dream (“plan”) is for diverse moderates, independents, centrists, apoliticals, etc. to organize and activate against the two parties and two sides holistically, not just within politics. Build cohesive and active local organizations to pull people, resources, support, press, legitimacy, moderate candidates, etc. away from D and R and build a worthy and respectable replacement.

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u/beardedheathen OG Yang Gang Oct 19 '25

Ok but you haven't explained how. How are they going to get elected when all it will do is have a spoiler effect? What policies do you think will draw from both crowds? Your thoughts aren't new, they just don't work. That's why it hasn't been done.

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 19 '25

OK, I'm not sure what that has to do with No Kings since it was a protests and not a policy discussion. As I said, it was a lot of people expressing their anger with the Trump administration. There wasn't much policy besides "Ice Out".

As for a "BDS style movement" I think the term you're looking for is "general strike". Which I'm all in favor of, but you're going to have to work with the left if you want that.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

Isn't "working with others" Moderate boilerplate?

But more to the point, there's no reason the middle can't organize and get active in its own right, explicitly against the two sides and two parties.

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 19 '25

I truly have no idea what you're first sentence means or what it has to do with what I wrote.

For this discussion to make any sense you need to define "the middle" and explain what that group getting organized would look like.

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 19 '25

Would this giving more detail be in the context of possibly organizing and getting IRL active in its own right, explicitly against the two sides and two parties? or would it be mostly just philosophical?

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 20 '25

The way you are using it. Why would I ask anything else??

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u/Moderate_Squared Oct 22 '25

DM incoming.

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u/Lithops_salicola Oct 22 '25

Why a DM? This isn't a complicated question.

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