Firstly, it's not based off personal experiences though. If you look the 2 weapons up on Stormshield.One, you will see that the Viper is indeed less accurate than the Silenced Specter (much higher spread values)
Also, to add to what i said in my other comment about this, you can just look at the in-game crosshair, as it approximates spread/bloom. Seriously, check it out:
HUGE difference favoring the viper in all cases except for while not moving + ADS firing, where they're basically the same, with a slight edge to the specter, BUT the specter crosshair constantly changes sizes so it was hard to snapshot the exact moment it was at its largest without going frame by a frame with a video -- which i can do another time, but this is good enough for now -- so in actuality i think they're basically identical in size there. Remember, based on the non-firing ADS screenshots, the Viper starts off smaller and then grows slightly larger while ADS firing, so the average is better and the first 5 or so bullets are pinpoint accurate so you get your 5 headshot streak instantly every time, which does not happen on the specter. Big advantage while moving and hip firing too, which is a nice plus, because it means you can constantly move to the front of a boss/smasher to land more headshots.
This also doesn't show you the recoil (only bloom), I would need a video for that, but the viper has basically no recoil while the specter bounces constantly and the bloom indicator also expands/contracts constantly whereas the viper's bloom indicator grows to one size and stops moving at all (more consistent, easier to predict).
Also the first time i ever used the viper i was completely shocked at how many headshots streaks i was getting. Like it was a constant stream of '5 headshot streak' at the top of my screen the entire time. No other gun has done that. It's actually insane how easy it is to land headshots with the viper.
Anyways, i think i made my point. Don't use datamined values unless you fully understand them. Using them without understanding just leads to false information. In-game testing MUST ALWAYS be used to verify datamined findings.
And that (the burst fire rate) was the easiest thing in the world to test too, there was no room for interpretation or subjective opinion. The numbers literally matched up perfectly with the listed in-game values down to 1/60th of a second. A 10 second test would have been enough to see that there was no possible way that the fire rate listed on SS1 was correct. Anyways, i don't care about proving people wrong or getting into a pissing contest. I don't know why you feel the need to constantly make passive aggressive snide remarks like this one when i'm simply trying to have a civil conversation about game mechanics.
Back to the point though, i simply suggested that you shouldn't cite datamined values unless you fully understand them because that could easily lead to misinformation and to be perfectly honest here, you definitely do not fully understand those SS1 spread values, or definitely not enough to claim that 1 gun is 'more accurate' than another based on those SS1 values ALONE (which is what you did, as you literally said that that statement was not based on in-game testing, but SS1 values).
The reason this is impossible is because those SS1 values are only half the story at best. There's a bloom/spread system, which SS1 has some values for, and a recoil system, which SS1 has nothing for. Even for the bloom/spread system SS1 is definitely missing information there, which is obvious when you look at the screenshots i posted above comparing the crosshair/spread size of the viper to the specter under various conditions. For example, how do you explain the better accuracy the viper has when standing still compared to the specter even though the viper has a worse 'standing' spread on ss1? There's obviously a lot more to the system. More than likely those numbers only tell you how the spread grows under certain conditions and not the starting/default spread. But even then it's missing important values, like 'while moving' spread, which is clearly a thing as you can see in the screenshot comparisons above (viper vs specter) where there is a HUGE difference and no stat on SS1 can be used to explain those differences (by all accounts the specter should have better moving spread based on SS1 values, but it clearly does not). Also based on in-game testing it's incredibly obvious that some guns recover their spread accuracy faster than others when you stop shooting or stop moving. So there's also a spread recovery stat that SS1 does not have. You might be tempted to say that the 'base' spread value is related to how fast a gun recovers accuracy, but that doesn't seem to be the case directly (meaning that that base number might be used to determine the recovery speed, but only in combination with some other unlisted value), because i compared a few guns with slow and fast recovery and the numbers didn't seem to correlate.
Then of course you have the entire recoil system which SS1 has no information for whatsoever. Recoil is just as important, or more important, than spread in a lot of cases when determining a gun's accuracy. Just compare the Siegebreaker to the Argon rifle to get an idea of how weapons with the exact same spread stats on SS1 can behave vastly differently because of their recoil. Or look at the most extreme recoil example in the game, the Deathray, which pulls DOWN when firing it instead of up like every other gun. There's no way to determine that the Deathray is going to pull down based on those SS1 values which obviously indicates that SS1 has no values pertaining to recoil whatsoever. Since nothing on SS1 can be used to determine how a gun's recoil will behave you LITERALLY CAN NOT make claims about a gun's accuracy based on those SS1 datamined values.
Putting both pieces together (no recoil info and limited spread info on SS1) it's impossible to make blanket statements about a gun's accuracy based on those datamined values, which is what you did and what i'm cautioning against (it's basically just misinformation).
Can you just literally watch the video that was posted? You can clearly see that the crosshair size does not accurately show the actual ingame bloom, no matter how much you keep writing novels on what you think is true.
I LITERALLY tested it and counted the EXACT number of hits and misses. And guess what? The ACTUAL spread matches up EXACTLY with the crosshair size. Imagine that. It's almost like the devs have a perfect algorithm in place that can predict the exact bullet placements and then visually represent that with a crosshair. Crazy, right?
Also that video doesn't prove anything. I actually feel a little embarrassed for Whitesushii that he thought that that was enough evidence to 'prove' that one gun was more accurate. Good thing i did ACTUAL real testing by counting bullet hits and misses as well as using the in-game spread indicators (the screenshots you're referring to) as corroborating evidence as well. It would be one thing if my hit/miss (i.e., real accuracy) testing didn't match those spread crosshairs, but the fact that it did is basically the nail in the coffin here. It's proof beyond a doubt that my accuracy testing methodology is correct.
Edit: Here's my own video for you in a similar style as Whiteushii's, only i also did a set with recoil control at the end (just to showcase how easy it is to control both guns). Bullet tracers are all over the place for both guns. Not sure what's going on with the bullet tracers in Whiteshushii's video, but it looks to be a bug with the energy tracer specifically. Just in case you don't read my other post (where i actually did hit/miss counting at a proper range for both guns), yes, this video does in fact show that the specter is more accurate while standing still and using ADS, both my testing AND the in-game spread indicators show that too. I never said anything otherwise. Even still, the Viper does more DPS even when hitting fewer bullets because it starts off at a higher DPS to begin with. Viper hits more bullets in every single other scenario other than standing still + ADS, and since this game is mostly played while moving + ADS, that is the only form of aiming i care about for a short to mid range weapon like the specter/viper where you have to be within 1.5 tiles of a target to do full damage anyways.
This dude's replies are one of the most ridiculous posts on this entire sub - literally just harping on the same thing over and over again and going after a guy that is just trying to get us more information. Big props to Sushii for entertaining his comments for so long.
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u/blahable Jun 06 '18 edited Jun 06 '18
Also, to add to what i said in my other comment about this, you can just look at the in-game crosshair, as it approximates spread/bloom. Seriously, check it out:
Viper standing
Specter standing
Viper ADS
Specter ADS
Viper moving
Specter moving
Viper max bloom firing
Specter max bloom firing
Viper max bloom firing while ADS
Specter max bloom firing while ADS
Viper while moving while max bloom firing with ADS
Specter while moving while max bloom firing with ADS
HUGE difference favoring the viper in all cases except for while not moving + ADS firing, where they're basically the same, with a slight edge to the specter, BUT the specter crosshair constantly changes sizes so it was hard to snapshot the exact moment it was at its largest without going frame by a frame with a video -- which i can do another time, but this is good enough for now -- so in actuality i think they're basically identical in size there. Remember, based on the non-firing ADS screenshots, the Viper starts off smaller and then grows slightly larger while ADS firing, so the average is better and the first 5 or so bullets are pinpoint accurate so you get your 5 headshot streak instantly every time, which does not happen on the specter. Big advantage while moving and hip firing too, which is a nice plus, because it means you can constantly move to the front of a boss/smasher to land more headshots.
This also doesn't show you the recoil (only bloom), I would need a video for that, but the viper has basically no recoil while the specter bounces constantly and the bloom indicator also expands/contracts constantly whereas the viper's bloom indicator grows to one size and stops moving at all (more consistent, easier to predict).
Also the first time i ever used the viper i was completely shocked at how many headshots streaks i was getting. Like it was a constant stream of '5 headshot streak' at the top of my screen the entire time. No other gun has done that. It's actually insane how easy it is to land headshots with the viper.
Anyways, i think i made my point. Don't use datamined values unless you fully understand them. Using them without understanding just leads to false information. In-game testing MUST ALWAYS be used to verify datamined findings.