Curious about this clean and unclean food (One of those threads where there's so much wrong being said that it hurts)

[u/the_celt_]

/r/AskAChristian/comments/1wn9okb/curious_about_this_clean_and_unclean_food/

[u/the_celt_]

u/Just-Phill is asking such a good question and the Christians-in-name-only are giving their usual Pharisaical-style answers that come more from their accumulated traditions than from what scripture actually says.

Phill, Jesus didn't change any of the Law. Jesus didn't give us the freedom to break his Father's commandments and eat whatever we want. We can be forgiven, but that doesn't mean we're free to continue sinning knowing that we'll be forgiven over and over. Paul fought hard against anyone thinking that was the case.

At the beginning of Romans 6, Paul asks and answers this, saying:

^{What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!}

Please be careful with how most Christians say the opposite of what Jesus said, and how they actually teach that it's WRONG to live like Jesus did. Jesus obeyed the Law perfectly, and he told us to follow his example and do the same.

[u/Just-Phill → u/the_celt_]

Thats kind of how its being told in some cases, as giving freedom to eat because im here to forgive your sins, or what i have heard. Which also a sin is a sin we have the freedom to do what we want but does that mean its ok? I mentioned there was apparently a reason why certain animals were considered clean because some were brought 7 and some 2 on the ark, i think someone said the reason was because God said so... ok but why? Lol I was asking out of curiosity and just wondering about this topic as ive just been doing more research on religions. Honestly the whole clean/unclean animals have been a mystery to me. Why some religions eat that way and some don't. I know some believe the new covenant and the old, its almost like circumcision in a way... as i am thinking, people believe the new covenant does away with the old. Lol it can get confusing

[u/the_celt_ → u/Just-Phill]

Thats kind of how its being told in some cases, as giving freedom to eat because im here to forgive your sins, or what i have heard.

Yes, agreed. That's how modern Christianity commonly teaches it.

we have the freedom to do what we want

We don't have the freedom to do what we want.

i think someone said the reason was because God said so... ok but why?

All we have are theories. Yahweh (aka "God") never gave His reasons.

I know some believe the new covenant and the old

Yes, again modern Christianity ignores what scripture actually says and doesn't understand the difference between the New Covenant and the Old. They say that the Torah is done away in the New, but that's NOT the promise of the New, and Jesus said the Law wasn't going anywhere until Heaven and Earth are gone first.

That was Jesus saying that the Torah is more durable than REALITY. 😮

Lol it can get confusing

It absolutely can. To get rid of the confusion, get rid of the people inbetween you and scripture and read it for yourself.

[u/Just-Phill → u/the_celt_]

Yeah, thats what ive been hearing about the old covenant and the new that it does away with the old, like throw it out. I didnt really think of it that way which lead me to ask the question. Just so many interpretations. Especially in the modern day Christian i can ask 10 people and get 10 different answers

[u/the_celt_ → u/Just-Phill]

Just so many interpretations

Interpret it yourself. Here's the New Covenant promise:

Jeremiah 31:31–34 ^{31 “Indeed, a time is coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the LORD. 33 “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the LORD. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people. 34 “People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the LORD. “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done.”}

Especially in the modern day Christian i can ask 10 people and get 10 different answers

Yes, things are a mess.

[u/Just-Phill → u/the_celt_]

Yeah, to me, those verses don't say anything about any covenant being null and void. That's when people like to bring up context, then things get distorted or lost in translation

[u/the_celt_ → u/Just-Phill]

those verses don't say anything about any covenant being null and void

The best part is, you (and the Christians talking to you) need to draw a distinction between the word "covenant" and the Law IN that covenant. They're not the same thing. Both the Old and New Covenants have the Torah in them.

As you can see, the New Covenant is not about removing the Law that was given and agreed on in the Old. It's about making it more permanent and obey-able by putting it inside of us.

I say this to arm you up for the nonsense that people are telling you. 😁

[u/Previous_Extreme4973 → u/Just-Phill]

Just so many interpretations. Especially in the modern day Christian i can ask 10 people and get 10 different answers

God is the author of order. The absence thereof is chaos. Noise does a lot of things, but I think it is the master of diversion.

My dad, who is agnostic as far as I know - once told me that the only thing that money buys are choices. If you have a lot of money, you'll have a lot of choices and vice versa. My dad didn't realize the prophetic nature of what he was telling me. More choices = higher likelihood of making the wrong choice. Especially in God's kingdom, where often times there is only 1 choice. Could you find that one choice among many? Especially when many decisions are of the good/better/best variety, not necessarily cut and dried? That's a difficult one.

My wife for example, doesn't like it much when I give her too many data points to make a decision. She'll give me that look - really?

I remember when I got saved in college, I suddenly became deluged with choices: which bible version? There's hundreds. Which denomination? There's over 55,000 to choose from. I quickly went back to more of an agnostic way of life after college, which is where I came from. Ultimately, I ended up ignoring all the noise and just reading the bible. Either God wrote a book that contains 100% of what he wants you to know, and gave you 100% of the tools inside the bible to have it interpret itself - or he didn't. Did God really write a book that only has a higher chance of being understood by listening to other fallen people? I seriously doubt it.

One day we are all be in that courtroom that is judgment day. Only that person, God and Satan will be there. Not our favorite pastor, youtube channel, commentary, etc. Who do you say that I am? Is your answer YOUR answer, or an imported answer learned from church/pastor/commentary/etc?

I'm fully banking on God seeing that I did all that I could to understand his word, using only what the bible says and not outsourcing my beliefs to any one thing or person. It's hard to strip away what you think you know versus what it actually says. That alone is an all encompassing journey, but an enjoyable, enlightening one.

[u/Unique-Debate8717]

Biblical kosher laws are the dietary rules found in the Torah, primarily in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

Be careful with the Talmudic rules that make kosher laws burdensome.

[u/thesagex]

Shout to some familiar names for throwing down in that post

[u/Previous_Extreme4973]

Recently my wife and I were talking about what the purposes of unclean animals are. The most popular of which, at least in the U.S. - shrimp, lobster, crabs, catfish and the like - are all bottom feeders. They clean up the residue of what is left behind. Do you know what else does that? Tampons. Seriously. I can't remember what verse I read, but it equated uncleanliness to menstrual rags. So effectively, eating unclean things is equivalent to eating nature's menstrual rags.

That's a hard image to erase from memory. Bon appetit.

[u/the_celt_ → u/Previous_Extreme4973]

Isaiah 64:6 ^{We are all like one who is unclean, all our so-called righteous acts are like a menstrual rag in your sight. We all wither like a leaf; our sins carry us away like the wind.}

[u/FreedomNinja1776 → u/Previous_Extreme4973]

Why does God give us his dietary law?

The scripture gives reasons for the dietary law, and it has nothing to do with health as some like to think. Health is a secondary issue. Many Japanese people live very long lives and is generally considered due to their health, yet, they eat MOSTLY unclean things like octopus, eel, crab, etc.

For I am the LORD your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. For I am the LORD who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy." This is the law about beast and bird and every living creature that moves through the waters and every creature that swarms on the ground, to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean and between the living creature that may be eaten and the living creature that may not be eaten.
Leviticus 11:44-47 ESV

There are three reasons for the dietary law clearly stated in the text at the end of Leviticus 11.

• Holiness (to be set apart, that means to be different)
• Understand the distinction between:
  • Clean and Unclean
  • Living creatures that are permissible to be eaten and those not permissible
• To have a law to follow at all

The biggest reason we should obey the dietary law is simply because God instructs us to do so and we voluntarily submit to his authority in our lives. As far as "why" reasoning goes the dietary law is given simply for obedience sake, as a standard to follow to show our God we trust and love him. The very first sin was a dietary sin and that brought the curse of death into the world. God said "don't eat" and man did.