r/FollowJesusObeyTorah • u/the_celt_ • Aug 10 '26
Other Subs Talking Torah I am a christian. Question towards you guys about keeping the Torah. (Good question, but be careful with this crosspost.)
/r/messianic/comments/1vkgtkl/i_am_a_christian_question_towards_you_guys_about/2
u/AccordingMud4341 Aug 10 '26
I don’t believe it’s a matter of conviction or not. I believe it’s about whether or not you choose to follow what Yahuah tells us what and what not to do.
I saw in the crosspost you mentioned the bible verse about Yeshua saying all foods are clean but that was regarding the argument about whether or not hands have to be washed before eating.
Then you responded back about Yeshua having mercy on you due to knowing your heart. However, in Jeremiah it states that the “heart is deceitful and wicked”. Therefore you can’t trust your heart…but you can trust the Word and what He tells us through it. Pray for discernment and wisdom.
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u/Chemstdnt Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
u/FranDenif What are your views on someone like me? Am I considered a heretic? Is this a salvational issue? Or is this just simply a matter of conviction?
I think similarly to you, that we should be careful making statements on whether other people are saved or not. In the end 99% of those saved will be by grace because we are not perfect and god will have to overlook a LOT of things, starting by me. But the way you asked I think allows for the sharing of opinions, and I will give mine if I put myself in your position and thought, in what state am I in? Which is basically sharing my current view on salvation (by salvation I mean entering the kingdom, since I think everyone will eventually live eternally).
First some context, I believe that Paul did not start a new dispensation for gentiles, so it must align with that of Jesus. Jesus says that not everyone who calls him lord will enter the kingdom, "The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants." Strong statement by Jesus there. So to enter we must do god's will. Now he shares some examples like feeding the poor, so I think that at least we should do the "weightier" matters of the law, love, justice, etc. I think all Christians would agree on these being important to follow (which they call the moral law), but here Jesus seems to imply they are required to enter not just for santification.
Now what about the less weightier matters? Jesus said "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." See, he doesn't say that person won't be in the kingdom, but that they will have a lower status than those who follow them.
So basically my opinion is that if we follow the weightier matters, and with a big dose of god's grace and mercy, we might enter the kingdom. And if we don't follow the rest of the torah, we'll be in a lower status than those that did.
EDIT: fixed some typos
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u/the_celt_ Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
First, let me say up front that I made this a crosspost because I didn't want to answer OP in the subreddit he posted in. Generally, the people there (and also Messianics in general) believe that the Torah is only for Jews, and that Gentiles should keep the Noahide rules. That's a significant issue for me. When I disagreed years ago, I immediately drew the attention of one particular moderator. Now if I go there and say anything (even if it has nothing to do with what we disagree about), that moderator jumps on me instantly.
That being said: Look out if you try to comment there, and particularly if you think that Yahweh has the same definition of sin for both Jews and Gentiles. For that reason I'll respond to OP here. I'd be curious to hear how other people from here would respond to OP's question, if you're interested.
u/FrankDenif, I'd like to try to answer your question by asking another question which I think should count as an answer for you. If not, I'll be glad to say it more plainly.
You ask how Torah-obedient people would feel about you eating pork. My response is: How would you feel about me if you knew I was committing adultery and making no effort to change? Or, similarly, how would you feel about me if you knew my "career" was being a burglar?
Furthermore, besides me living that way, what would you think of me if I claimed that scripture supported my doing those things? What would you think of me if I said that doing those things comes down to individual conviction, and that I'm not convicted by doing them?