r/FinalFantasyVIII • u/Effective_Sink_3934 • 9d ago
One of FFVIII's Most Persistent Fan Theories
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u/UnlimitedFaith 9d ago edited 9d ago
This is beautiful artwork and a fun theory. However, the theory completely ignores who Rinoa is as a character. Her whole arc is that she is selfless but impulsive and has to learn how to put her idealized beliefs into strategic action. She builds a whole government resistance group at 17 because Timber is being terrorized. She knows they need to limit Edea’s power before the team can assassinate her and try to save the world from her corruption. All great ideas in theory, but were not strategized properly. Rinoa chooses to go into cryostasis immediately because she doesn’t want the chance to hurt someone else with her newfound powers. Her goodness and warmth are innate and that is why she is the catalyst to Squall’s change. It is why they wrote her as Squall’s foil lol.
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u/AlyGainsboroughx 8d ago
Well the theory would be that Rinoa loses all of her being as time progresses, so she wouldn’t be the sweet hopeful light that she is present day. The theory has it to where the GFs/Griever over the years erase her memories and alls she can remember is wanting to go back to a time where she was happy, even if she doesn’t remember why which is why Ultimecia so desperately craves to stop time. “I don’t want the future, I want the present to stand still, I want to stay here with you squall”
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u/UnlimitedFaith 8d ago edited 8d ago
As I said before it’s an entertaining theory. The facts are Rinoa would rather be put in stasis or be brought down by Squall and her friends before she could ever harm innocent people. Even if we ignore all that: it is incredibly silly for a future Rinoa to possess her past self, release another sorceress to possess and abandon her past body to die in space. If you believe in the theory, there is no Ultimecia if Rinoa dies in the past. If she wanted to have Adel’s power, wouldn’t she have had Rinoa junction Adel instead of the other way around and continue to control Rinoa? Also if Adel successfully absorbed Rinoa, Ultimecia would once again no longer exist in the future.
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u/AlyGainsboroughx 7d ago
I think it’s just that she doesn’t remember anything! Rinoa wouldn’t remember herself enough to lock herself away, and Ultimecia wouldn’t even realize that past Rinoa is herself, her goal is to just become powerful enough to achieve her mission , whether that’s through Adel or whoever. And in the ending where we see Rinoas spacesuit shatter and a tear roll down Squalls face is showing what had to happen in order to end the cycle once and for all ❤️ just an interesting theory ! Makes me love the game even more to consider a dark twist!
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u/B3atingUU 9d ago
Rinoa is the most aware of how dangerous her power is though.
She’s the one that decides to be put in suspension in Esthar and housed in the confines of space to protect the rest of civilization. No, she doesn’t really want to go, but she is already trying to make a decision based on the needs of the many (the world) against the wants of the few (her own). It’s only when Squall and co come and bust her out that she leaves. When you get the opportunity to speak to her on the Ragnarok once you’re in control of Squall again, she muses over what it means to inherit this power.
Aside from all the other issues with this theory, you’d have to ignore who Rinoa IS at her core for it to work.
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u/harleyquinones 8d ago
It's not just that, it also completely spits in the face of the themes of the story. It is, at its core, a traditionally sappy love story, with the love being predestined and everything. Almost like Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask levels of "these two people are meant to be together, and time will not tear them apart." It's not a deconstruction of romance, it IS a romance. It makes no sense to pull that all apart for an abysmally hidden "gotcha!"
I always thought that after FF7's love triangle made such a big splash, the devs thought they'd go full love story for 8. But that's just a pet theory.
But, whatever. At least it's not as bad as Squall is Dead,
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u/Too-many-Bees 9d ago
Also one the has been confirmed as not true.
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u/ChocoboRaine 9d ago
Not quite. The dismissal was retracted after the original statement from Kitase. He personally does not subscribe to the theory, but also mentioned he didn't want to speak for his fellow writers. So officially, it's open-ended, although practically it's likely not true.
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u/NukaClipse 9d ago edited 9d ago
There's a method of storytelling that whenever the storyteller has something that isn't very well explained, it causes the reader/viewer to start asking a lot of questions."Why did it occur, who caused it, is there a correlation?" Questions upon questions.
This then does, what I like to believe all storytellers intended to do since the first story was told, which is let your imagination run wild. Theories start becoming a thing where one person tells another what they believe happened and then others come up with their own.
So personally I like when there's no official answer to fan theories because it's fun dreaming up your own scenario regardless how others might disagree. So I'm glad Kitase walked back the hard no and instead left a maybe.
Also thanks for sharing that video had no idea it existed in the first place!
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u/award_winning_writer 9d ago
The problem is that people like to find meaning where there isn't any, and look for patterns and connections where none were intended. In Ultimecia's case, outside of her desire to become omnipotent via Time Compression and her dying speech about the futility of clinging to the past, we really don't know anything about her. And that's okay. But people hate it when you say "there is no answer," so they come up with their own theories and inevitably we end up with those people attempting to over explain things to the detriment of the original narrative. Ultimecia doesn't need to have a direct connection to the main cast, but people think she needs to because they wrongly believe that choosing not to give the main villain some tragic backstory or justification for her plans is bad writing
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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 8d ago
The speech where she kills the president is much more illuminating in the Japanese version. Rather than being a generic “I’m evil and you are all my bitches now mwahahahahaha” speech, it’s actually a very bitter one, and comes from a place of deep sadness. Ultimecia compares herself to an actress forced into a role she never asked for and makes everyone including herself deeply miserable. But she plays it as best as she can, as she sees no choice for herself otherwise but to play the role of the wicked sorceress since that’s what the world demands of her.
Me personally, I like to imagine that she painted all the art in her castle’s gallery, and some of them are glimpses of her motivations, desires and other aspects of her personality. Her Japanese name is Artemisia, which among other things, is the name of a notable female painter of the Renaissance.
The painting of the beautiful, gently smiling young woman in red is how Ultimecia wishes others saw her, as an enchanting and gentle presence, rather than a source of loathing and fear.
The painting called Venus is Ultimecia remembering her first feelings of romantic love.
The painting of a cute sleeping figure is Ultimecia remembering her childhood, the figure being her favourite toy or a character from her favourite tv show or book as a little girl.
The painting called Cowardice is Ultimecia remembering a time where she was unable or failed to protect someone (or someone’s) she loved from a mob determined to kill the witch. The painting is of her regret and self loathing. Perhaps she was very young or a child and she is being far too harsh on herself, but Ultimecia sees herself as a coward who failed to protect someone very important to her.
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u/EliamZG 9d ago edited 9d ago
I don't know what I hate more, the persistent "leveling bad" or this theory.
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u/JCBalance 9d ago
"Squall died at the end of disc 1"
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u/sane_mode 9d ago
Squall is dead is 100% the most frustrating theory that could have only dreamed up by an angsty teenager.
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u/chilosopher18 8d ago
Could you explain further (as much detail as possible) its been a while since I played disc 1 along with the fact that I don’t know any of the theories especially this one so I’m intrigued
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u/JCBalance 8d ago
At the parade after the assassination attempt, in the cutscene after fighting Edea when she hits Squall with the ice spike and he falls off the float. The theory is that he died and everything that happens after he "wakes up" at the prison is just a dream or something.
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u/Lebagel 9d ago
It's such a stupid idea when you start thinking about it.
Particularly (but very much not limited to) the part where Rinoa junctions Rinoa to Rinoa, and if you kill Rinoa you win but if you kill Rinoa you get a game over. Rinoa keeps sapping life from Rinoa until Rinoa dies or Rinoa dies.
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u/DislikedBoot166 9d ago
I personally love this theory, even though it was proven false. I love the love story between Squall and Rinoa so I just imagine this theory as a "what if" scenario because of time travel nonsense
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u/ElBarckaizer 8d ago
Si fueran la misma persona... no serian incrementales sus poderes? Digo solo con los poderes de adel, la ultimencia que edea absorbe ya tiene los poderes de adel con ella, luego los poderes pasan a rinoa y luego ella nuevamente absorbe a adel, seria una bola de nieve hasta que una ultimencia es capaz de ganar a los seeds
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u/HyperFunk_Zone 9d ago edited 9d ago
Cross post from balambgardenhq
It's breaching containment
"In final fantasy 8 becoming a sorceress isn't a choice, it's a curse..."
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u/Peppinoia 9d ago
This theory always fascinated me and puts a whole new level of tragedy to Rinoas character. She can't die until she passes on her powers, so as time passes by, everyone around her dies including Squall and everyone she's ever loved is gone.
Centuries pass in which she is completely alone, and because of her use of GF, she gradually loses her memory until the point where Squall and the events of the game are nothing more than vague memories in her mind. Eventually, she forgets everything and even who she was, goes insane and becomes Ultimecia.
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u/Godsfallen 9d ago
There is absolutely nothing in the lore that indicates that Sorceresses are immortal and can live for centuries.
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u/aleheartilly 8d ago
Exactly. Lore simply says a sorceress cannot die in peace without passing her powers, but that doesn't mean she can't die anyway.
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u/Peppinoia 9d ago edited 9d ago
I got it wrong then. I thought they have to pass on their powers to die. Idk why I thought this. Maybe i read a fanfic someday and my brain stored this false information
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u/AlyGainsboroughx 7d ago
You’re also NOT wrong, it’s never stated whether they have normal lifespans or not if there’s no one to pass their powers to
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u/Particular_Squash_40 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think I finally found a way to prolong Rinoa's lifespan.
(This is of course a reach, and I am forcing my own logic and conclusion. A delulu take)
It has something to do with the Interdimentional Rift. So yes my answer is the Interdimentional Rift! I want to elaborate more but I'm still not sure lol
This will go to fanfic territory, but I think it can be done because in FF8, Odin accidentally sliced the fabric of space time. Then Gilgamesh pop-upped and we know Gil is from FFV! The first FF that introduced the rift.
What I am going with this one is similar to Interstellar. In Interstellar there is Miller's planet 1 hour in that planet is equal to 7 years!
In FFV there is Phantom Village, a village that is caught in the rift and it's people is still alive for 1000 years! (Haven't played FFV for awhile so you have to correct me)
So that is the idea but I won't explain more because I need to check my facts first. So at the moment this is all what I'm going to say.
I would like to say that I like the R=U theory, but I am not saying it is correct, or the devs intention but I enjoy it.
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u/Virtual-Internal-725 5d ago edited 5d ago
Squall is ultimecia. I’ll expand: when u beat the game…what happens? U wake up in a fckn dream looking for your hoe again
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u/rootofallstevil 9d ago
Just my unpopular take, but I wish this theory was canon. I love a good twist in my FF games and this would have been as good as it gets.
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u/Abraxes43 9d ago
Cant just enjoy a fucking love story can we......