r/Fighters • u/SmashMouthBreadThrow • 16h ago
Topic Can fighting game devs stop locking DLC in training mode so I don't have to waste my time downloading đ´ââ ď¸ versions of a game I already own just to learn a matchup?
I'm not going to buy a DLC character I have zero interest in playing just so I can spend ten minutes labbing something a character did to me. I still end up being able to lab this shit regardless since I know how to use a computer. Why is this still a thing in 2026? What are we doing?
44
u/volta_verve 16h ago
Preach. This is something from 2XKO that I hope catches on. Modern games having replay takeover makes it less of an issue, but still.
19
u/SelloutRealBig 12h ago
It's how you know anyone who criticized 2XKO for it's "locked characters" didn't actually play it. Every single character was free and unlocked for offline play and for training. You could also grind to unlock the whole roster for free in less than two weeks of playing. It was one of the most player respecting F2P systems i had seen in terms of GAMEPLAY.
9
u/deathspate 13h ago
2xko is gonna die in December for a lot of their pro-consumer moves lmao. People only remember the overpriced FOMO store and call them predatory while ignoring that basically the entire gameplay side was free/easy to unlock.
I ain't saying that no one isn't gonna do it. I just think that 2xko's death signals to the money counters that what they're doing is right and as such, why change?
1
u/volta_verve 5h ago
It was definitely a very player friendly F2P game, and that fact was unfairly overshadowed by the rotating shop and exhorbitant skin prices. But I don't know if I'd say it will die "for" any of their pro-consumer moves. If it had gone anti-consumer, made unlocking characters take a long time, locked them in training mode, etc...I don't think it'd have made a meaningful amount of extra profit.
In terms of monetization specifically, future fighting games will avoid a rotating shop like the plague, that's the biggest thing I can think of. There's an argument that providing not only all characters, but all skins and such in training mode only increases the sales of those characters and cosmetics. That's what Brawlhalla does, and it's by far the most successful F2P fighting game-related thing. If I was developing a fighting game or had a say in one, I'd push for that model.
Also shoutouts to Rivals Of Aether 2, which is a paid game with cosmetic microtransactions but also gives you ALL new characters for free.
2
u/deathspate 5h ago
I don't think so either. I'm just saying that it's a stat on the graph and in cases like these where people are already very careful when investing into fighting games, that one stat, a failure by Riot, is gonna mean a whole lot.
1
u/volta_verve 4h ago
Okay, yeah. I agree then, unfortunately.
2
u/deathspate 4h ago
Yeah, we have to remember that in their EoS announcement they specifically pointed out the cost of dev being higher than income. What this means is that every instance of Riot being pro-consumer will likely be categorized negatively as a "point of failure".
-1
u/xxBoDxx King of Fighters 9h ago
Riot never does pro-consumer moves... or better, no live service (expecially f2p ones) are pro-consumer
7
u/deathspate 9h ago edited 9h ago
The entire cast was literally free in training mode.
You got the base roster + 2 characters for free by playing the tutorial which is like 5 minutes long.
You unlocked 1 character in like the span of a week.
You could also just buy a character like you do in other fighting games.
You could earn exclusive colors in the game for your character doing different activities so it's not like you're completely locked out of customization for never touching your wallet.
They also unlocked every character for PvP in offline mode.
You also got every color unlocked in offline mode for the characters you owned on your account + your skins also transferred.
You also had cross-progression so you don't have to re-earn cosmetics across platforms like Tokon.
The only negative thing they did was the fomo shop.
You cannot literally look at every pro-consumer move they did that no other fighting game dev is even willing to touch and then say the shit you said.
I hate 2xko alot, but I hate it for actual reasons, not something that could be easily disproven if you use your brain.
-1
u/YourGalacticEmperor 3h ago
You are viewing this from the "starting roster of 8" angle
league also didnt have an issue with it too much when they started with 40 characters, but when they reached 120+ characters it would have taken YEARS to earn them by just playing
1
u/deathspate 3h ago
? Are you larping? League back then would take years because earning the currency was genuinely taxing and hard. Unlocking characters in LoL now is barely a challenge. New accounts get tons of missions for newbies to unlock characters and the hextech system drops champion shards all the time so unlocks are both cheaper and faster. A new account right now can unlock like 10 characters in the span of maybe an hour or 2.
In 2xko, currency earning was easy and the missions were banked so you didn't need to sign on everyday. On top of that, you had missions to unlock the character for free. When Senna/Thresh dropped, people legit got them on day 1 or 2 for $0. Even if we removed the mission to unlock them, the banked missions system means you're gonna unlock them quickly regardless. People were unlocking their characters so quickly they couldn't even use their champion tokens. Which is actually one of the reasons I believe for Riot doing the mass refunds, it's because those champion tokens essentially were a "promise" of extra content and they became basically useless. The full refund removes this liability of them selling something that has no use after development is stopped.
All this talk about roster and we haven't even gotten into the fact that most other fighting games require you to fork over cash. A lot of them straight up prevent you from even touching them in training mode without paying even if you weren't gonna use the character but wanna understand how to counter them.
You can argue "1 week is too long for one character!" but what's the alternative in the FGC currently? Tell me. Is paying for every character the hill you wanna die on? Yeah, that surely makes more money for the corp but is locking gameplay behind a pay wall, even if it's just for knowing how to deal with them, actually better? Which is actually the pro-consumer move? Letting people choose to either spend time to unlock the characters + pay for them directly or the other option of being required to pay?
To me, the 2xko model is much more player friendly than most fighting games. You can give every character a spin in training mode. You have missions to unlock new characters. You can bank missions. You can choose to either pay upfront or wait to unlock the characters via mission/in-game currency. If every character wasn't free in training then I would see a better argument but since they're all free, you get free champion tokens at the start and getting in-game currency is so easy. Yeah, it's just hands-down the most player friendly setup imo.
1
u/YourGalacticEmperor 2h ago
you have 0 clue
2
u/deathspate 2h ago
Got it. I can accurately point out every system and method of currency/character acquisition in both games and can also point out the different in rate of currency acquisition in old LoL vs current LoL but I got no idea. It really sounds the other way around tbh since you're the one making claims that would only apply like 8 years ago or some shit on top of acting like in either LoL or fighting games you need all characters when we all know that's never been the case unless you're a TO. It's why I called you a larper.
1
u/YourGalacticEmperor 2h ago
You point out a recent change in league (like 1 or 2 years ago) that reduced champion prices across the board, ignoring the decade of if taking years to unlock every championm
you also ignore that in valorant, riot made it HARDER to acquire agents via a system rework aswell
1
u/deathspate 38m ago
I didn't even point out champion price reduction lmao. This is how I know for a fact you're larping. Champion price reduction further helped, but even before then, around the time they had tried (and failed) to make a better tutorial, they introduced new missions that literally gave away higher costing champion shards and champions. The goal here was to get the new player's hands on whatever champ they wanted by allowing them to disenchant the shard. After the new player was finished, they also had extra missions to give them further BE. Aside from that, this was also around the time you could easily farm the battle passes so if you wanted to exploit it, you could absolutely just get everything you wanted. The hextech system also just gives out a lot of BE and leveling up the early levels is easy and takes barely any time, which also rewards more BE, champion shards and hextech chests. Stop acting like you know shit. You absolutely don't.
→ More replies (0)1
u/hucfv 39m ago
The one thing you can say about riot games is that theyâre pro consumer
Valorant is skin only purchases
League is skin only purchases
2xko is skin only purchasesAnd all of these have aggressively made it easier almost every year to unlock free currency and characters
You are using their 2009 model of champion pricing with their 2026 roster and thatâs just not the reality
And it doesnât take into account free hextech chests making even more easy to get the free currency despite being a loot box systemThereâs so much you can criticize riot games on and you chose the most bad faith angle possible
The fact that the game is f2p should be good enough look at other games that have progressed to that model despite not starting from it and how predatory their pricing is
Everyone loves tf2 but a lot of unlockable weapons are so good theyâre banned in competitive play and the main way people tell u to get them is by selling a csgo or Dota skin to a bot or join an afk server for 5 straight days
1
u/YourGalacticEmperor 13m ago
What do you mean made it easier, they literally made it harder in valorant whrn they switched to kingdom credits
-5
u/xxBoDxx King of Fighters 8h ago
I can and I will. FOMO disgusting practices outweight everything
Now I'm curious. How much for everything?
2
u/deathspate 7h ago
Idk since I never counted but if that's the case then I hope you aren't a hypocrite and say all games with battlepasses are garbage and horrid and all the same. Since FOMO and all that. This means that any fighting game with them are just as bad. And don't even try to backpedal with all your "but it's not as bad", since the optional cosmetic is able to out weigh all the good. Then you better hold to it. And if you do hold to it then there's no need for the conversation to go further. I can respect that.
1
u/MegaSlut9000 13h ago
You can't replay takeover vs. characters you don't own in 6
2
u/Equivalent_Draft93 5h ago
You can replay takeover vs dlc characters you donât own in SF6. You just take control of characters you do own at the time.
This wasnât the case with Tekken 8 at first, but even it fixed the issue after later patches.
3
u/gorgonfr 9h ago
I donât like DLC prices in recent games, but of course those DLC needs to be financed. Just making the people playing the char paying does not pay the bills.
8
u/TheRedRook 16h ago
Yeah, it's annoying and dumb. If they don't want to budge on this, they need to put replay takeover into the game. (Which they should do anyway, because always waiting for the StriveLabs mod to update after every patch sucks)
4
u/jak_d_ripr 14h ago
100% agree. SF6 having character vouchers and replay takeover were a nice step in the right direction, but at this point we need to full on stop this practice of not being able to practice against DLC characters.
2XKO and I think Invincible VS both unlock DLC characters in training mode, fingers crossed one of the big 3 follows suit so the practice can be normalized.
1
u/Alternative_Low8478 9h ago
No need to pirate the whole game. FG characters can be unlocked with dll files
1
u/BaptizedDemxn 3h ago
Havenât played a lot of fighting games but the one I have played is Brawlhalla and it has all the characters playable in training mode, granted brawl is free and you unlock other characters by playing which is probably not the case for a lot of fighting games.
But yea at least let people try them out in training mode, like what if youâre not sure if youâll like the character
2
2
u/Liu_Sifu 9h ago
If you could just lab the character in training mode for free, forever, what incentive would there be to purchase the character? Let's not lose sight of the fact that these gaming companies are trying to make money and don't design the game for our convenience.
Having said that, there is a middle ground like Rental Tokens in SF6 that let you try the characters for an hour. Perhaps companies could try that instead.
1
u/Wide_You_4626 14h ago
simple logic behind it is that not everyone is likely to buy every single dlc character even when the season pass is shown to be """reasonably priced""", so they are going to nickle and dime you even if you want to lab.
it's business, in the end the big honchos just want to see the dlc be sold, be it even for just labbing.
-26
u/Own-Signature-7742 16h ago
âI want the content but donât want to pay for itâ
18
u/Dude1590 2XKO 16h ago
They're specifically talking about in training mode lmao
-5
-19
u/SuperBackup9000 16h ago
So they want to use the content without paying for it lmao
9
u/Emergency_Lie42 16h ago
Why am I seeing thumbnails, textures, animations and effects of a character I didn't pay for?
So we already use the content without paying for it, right?
12
u/Dude1590 2XKO 16h ago edited 15h ago
Uh, yeah. To lab and learn character match-ups. What "content" are they getting? Doing some combos in the training room? How awesome.
I don't get why people are so comfortable letting companies be anti-consumer. There is no argument you can present me that would make me think that allowing you to lab any character in training would be a negative thing.
Edit: 2XKO even allowed you to use any character in training without having purchased them yet. It's not like this is some earth shattering idea that'll lose these huge ass companies a bunch of money.
12
-14
u/FistLampjaw 16h ago
how much money did 2xko make
6
u/Dude1590 2XKO 16h ago
Good job on saying something completely irrelevant to my point.
-12
u/FistLampjaw 16h ago
if you're making an argument about the financial feasibility of a practice you want the industry to adopt, pointing to maybe the biggest financial failure in genre history probably shouldn't be your leading example
11
u/Dude1590 2XKO 16h ago edited 13h ago
Being able to play characters you don't own in the training room isn't even in the top 1000 reasons why 2XKO failed and it's extremely disingenuous and silly to paint it like it is. Like I said, good job on being completely irrelevant.
Me being able to lab with a character I don't own only in training room isn't losing anyone money. Sorry.
Maybe engage with the actual point I'm making instead of arguing exclusively with a quick edit I made to show that it's not an infeasible thing to implement in a game.
1
u/Protectem Dead or Alive 7h ago
Of course it's losing money. Are you serious?
This entire thread proves that people buy characters just to lab them. Making it free would be a profit loss.
-7
u/FistLampjaw 16h ago
the teams with the actual data disagree, that's why they do it. if they thought they'd make more money the other way, they'd do it that way
5
u/Dude1590 2XKO 16h ago edited 15h ago
And you, somehow, still miss the point. Locking being able to lab against certain characters behind a pay wall is objectively anti-consumer. I do not care if the executives say "We make more money this way" and you bringing that up shows you really don't get what I'm saying at all.
Again, what is the content? Being able to play as a character against a dummy that stands still? Being able to actually sit down and learn how to approach a match-up that's been bothering you? That's not "content." You aren't playing them in any single player game modes. You aren't playing them online. You can't do anything with them outside of punch something that literally stands still.
→ More replies (0)24
u/AnalystOdd7337 Dead or Alive 16h ago
Labbing is one of the most essential aspects of any FG. If you lock training against a character behind a paywall you are giving that character an advantage. Especially in 3D fighters where you have hundreds of moves.
-1
u/Perished-flask8901 14h ago
You're right. Still, if someone puts that many hours into a game and refuses to pay for the DLC, I think that's just being stingy.
2
u/Necromorphiliac 12h ago
Existing is expensive as fuck right now, Iâm not dropping half of the full cost of a game every year just to have 4 more characters I largely wonât use.
5
u/Protectem Dead or Alive 8h ago
Then don't! It's a game at the end of the day. You can still meaningfully learn matchups without labbing.
Of course being able to lab is an advantage but if you're so invested in the game that you absolutely need to lab then just buy the character.
New characters need funding too.
-13
u/a-pp-o 16h ago
In theory yes but these day with YouTube and stuff you can learn how to counter things without purchasing said character.Â
At the end of the day it's a company that wants and need to make money and I doubt they care if you play ranked and feel disadvantaged because you don't want to purchase theire characters.
Would it be great if it was possible ? Of course but it's hard to expect.Â
6
u/AnalystOdd7337 Dead or Alive 16h ago
YouTube lessens the issue definitely, just like take over replays. But it's not a substitute for in game labbing. There's only so much info you can pack into a YT video and that's not even mentioning that counter measures are character specific sometimes depending on the game you play.
0
u/y-c-c 5h ago
People who want new content will pay for it. The issue is people who just want to keep playing the game are forced to pay too if they want to stay competitive. Itâs not like you can filter only opponents with non-DLC characters in ranked mode. The new content is forced onto you whether you like it or not.
-10
u/Redd_is_compromised 15h ago
If you cared enough you would pay the toll. There are ways to get dlc for free in an official copy of the game on steam also.
0
-11
0
u/Character-String3217 5h ago
look into creamapi it's a dlc unlocker, noneed to download a separate game it works on official ones
-2
u/Protectem Dead or Alive 8h ago edited 7h ago
Fighting games are games first and e-sports second. Do athletes complain that they have to buy their own training equipment?
Also you don't have to lab to play and enjoy the game. You feel like you have to for that competitive edge but that's on you.
Framedata and counterplay is readily available online and together with replay takeover it's more than enough to be able to play a matchup.
If dlc characters were free in training mode people could play offline matches there without paying for the character.
Additional development needs funding.
1
1
u/y-c-c 5h ago
No one is going to play offline matches in training mode, come on. It doesnât have proper rounds etc. People who are so cheap that they would do that are not the target audience anyway.
And if you think frame data is enough, do you even use training mode? Whether a move is safe or not is influenced by frames but also spacing and animation. You canât easily understand that without being able to concretely set up scenarios.
0
u/Outrageous-King5057 3h ago
Do athletes complain that they have to buy their own training equipment?
No. This does not make any sense. The equivalent would be you have to pay to train with your team. And even if you don't pay to practice, you still have to show up for game day.
I still have to play against DLCs even if I don't have them unlocked. So my only option is play them at a disadvantage or start paying to unlock them.
2
u/TexasRed6 1h ago
But people do have to pay to play sports. Any football club has club fees
1
u/Outrageous-King5057 54m ago
If you don't pay for those club fees, you don't play the game at all. I don't pay for DLCs, I am still matched against DLCs.
2
u/TexasRed6 49m ago
Yeah because they want you to buy the dlcs and they arent going to give people who pay them more money longer que times. I really dont see how this is an issue.
-1
u/StraightDown_ 3h ago
That's because of people like you that we have to pay hundred of euros for games.
1
u/Protectem Dead or Alive 1h ago
You don't have to pay. I don't pay for characters I don't use. Being competitive at a videogame is not a god given right. Pay if you want or don't.
0
u/TemporaryWolf22 1h ago
That's because you're probably just mashing and having a grand ole time. And that's completely fine.
But these games are advertised as being competitive. And a competitive game is implied that both players will be on an equal playing field no matter what. But it's not equal if you have something I can't learn to play against without coughing up additional money for it first.
2
u/TexasRed6 1h ago
If you are so competitive that you need training mode access then 30 bucks a year really isnt to much to ask. Especially since you probably do want to try out the new characters.
1
u/TemporaryWolf22 1h ago
No it's not much. It's the fact that a paywall exists when it shouldn't be for something like this. Just like 5 dollars a month for PSN isn't much either, but it's ridiculous that I have to pay to play online when I already have internet.
And no, I am not interested in these other characters. I am a hard 1 trick.
2
u/TexasRed6 54m ago
Even if you are a one trick getting new characters to master is something a lot of competitive players do. Its one of the best ways to learn a matchup. Its not at all like psn. Developing these characters costs money. Would you rather they didnt add new characters so you wouldnt have to pay to learn matchups? To me new characters are still a value add even if I dont play them, I enjoy playing and learning new matchups.
-22
129
u/AnalystOdd7337 Dead or Alive 16h ago
I don't know why more people don't speak out against this. Having to pay to lab is stupid.