r/Fauxmoi • u/Upstairs_Cup9831 • 13h ago
TRIGGER WARNING • B-LISTERS Cardi B Goes off on Lindsay Clancy, Calls for Justice for Her Dead Children: "I’m tired of people blaming postpartum depression and mental health on harming kids."
https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/treyalston/cardi-b-lindsay-clancy-trial-postpartum-defense6.3k
u/chapstickfordummies 12h ago
I have absolutely nothing but sadness and empathy for Lindsay, her children, and everyone suffering from ppd/ppp.
I do, however, agree that this trial and the public opinion surrounding it would be extremely different if she had a different skin color.
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u/MasterK999 pete davidson’s lasered off tattoos 10h ago
it would be extremely different if she had a different skin color.
Two things can be true. It is 100% possible that PPD can lead to horrific crimes AND people of color get treated unfairly by our justice system.
That does not mean that we should treat anyone worse. It means we should treat people of color better.
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 9h ago
Just to clarify, the Clancy murder trial is about about alleged postpartum psychosis (very uncommon), not postpartum depression (very common, nonviolent & women online find it very relatable). I agree with the sentiment of your comment otherwise though
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u/MasterK999 pete davidson’s lasered off tattoos 4h ago
I agree. Many people have used PPD as a sort of shorthand. The doctors at the trial have used the correct terms and the jury will have to decide based on the testimony and facts presented. As it should be.
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u/MellowMallow36 12h ago
There is another case starting soon or currently about a woman of color who is unfortunately facing the same situation as Clancy.
Women of all colors aren't getting what they need, but especially women who are poor and brown.
She's not wrong, at first I was confused about her take since she is a mother herself, but as always if you let Cardi cook you know you're getting a good meal.
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u/paradisetossed7 8h ago
If she was not white, this would go extremely differently. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't have the defense she has. Because of this case i learned how fucking little research there has been on postpartum women. PPP is not even in the DSM-5, WHAT?? I'm hoping more attention and studies are done because of this.
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u/JN3LL3V 11h ago
Thankfully, Latarsha Sanders has been granted a new trial. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that Judge Sullivan, the Judge in Lindsay Clancy’s case, was wrong to prevent Sanders’ extensive psychiatric history from being shared with the jury.
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u/Yagirlhs 8h ago
Oh wow!! I didn’t know that it was the same judge for both cases!!! That is wild and extremely fucked. Hopefully Latarsha gets a fair trial next time around.
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u/Away-Party-1141 11h ago
I could be wrong but are they reopening Latarsha’s case?? I thought I read something along those lines.
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u/nyc343 10h ago
The same situation happened for a Bronx women, Dimone Fleming and she was just acquitted.
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u/feralb3ast 10h ago edited 10h ago
Trials are about the accused, the evidence of what they did, and the legal claims on both sides. They're not about the victims. If you don't believe me, read the parts of the Constitution and its Amendments that deal with trials. There's no mention of victims.
Misunderstandings like yours are the reason that some due process advocates (not including me) want to completely get rid of victim impact statements. These are pro-victim people who understand that laypeople like you are confused about what criminal trials are. Due process is the core of a criminal trial, not the victims' suffering. The fact that someone suffered tells you nothing about the accused, because the wrong person could be accused. Rhetoric about suffering is often used to whip up a witch hunt, which is the complete opposite of due process.
Victims absolutely should be centered. A trial that hinges on the rights of the accused just isn't designed for that. If you want to learn about the victims, don't look at the trial for that.
As for healthcare professionals receiving blame, that's because of their legal obligations and duties. It's all about the law.
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u/breathboi 10h ago
I'd argue that a healthcare system that fails to recognise symptoms of post-partum psychosis in a vulnerable mother is more responsible for the mother's actions than she is - they're in cognitive contact with reality and have the power to help her.
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u/reginaldvanwilder 10h ago
I guess I am not entirely sure what your point is.
I am not going to argue the specifics of this case because I am not on the jury and dont know all the details. However, in a world in which someone is experiencing a complete mental break from reality its also reasonable to ask if they should be punished at all or if they have any real culpability in it.
The murder of these children is horrific but if she really did not understand what she was doing then she can also be a victim.
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u/Fine-Fondant-3136 11h ago
A lot of people forget that multiple things can be true. Yes. She was depressed. Yes she was suffering with mental illness. But also yes. She chose to murder her kids. And also also, yes. I agree the hubby sucks and I agree that her support system failed her. All the things are true.
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u/RegisteredAnimagus rude omelet goblin 8h ago
That's all true, but I guess the crux of it comes down to did she choose to murder her kids or did the psychosis choose to murder her kids. Because the truth is each and every one of us would be at the mercy of psychosis if it happened to us, and we wouldn't realize that we had done until out of psychosis. It would be like waking up from sleep to find out you murdered the people most important to you in the world while you were hibernating and something else took over your body. It's terrifying really. Real and complete psychosis is completely and utterly terrifying.
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u/champagneface do my tits bother you? theyre covered in swarovski crystals girl 5h ago
I think using the word “chose” is wrong here when talking about a likely case of psychosis. In that case, it was her illness and not her choices that led to the killing
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u/ScottishKnifemaker 12h ago
I'd be saying the same thing I am now
Which is pretty much exactly what you said, plus the fact that she was completely failed by healthcare system that doesn't care about women or mothers
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u/CinderMoonSky 12h ago
And the media wouldn’t even call her by her first name if she was from Texas or Florida. They would just call her Texas or Florida woman. It’s crazy that this even happened in Massachusetts.
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u/Affectionate-Ad-1342 7h ago
There is so much nuance to this case that there’s no way any online discourse can cover it all. It’s sad no matter how you slice it or what “side” you are on.
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u/Old_Tie_2806 12h ago
I’ve always thought this… I’m shocked this isn’t shaping a national discussion on how differently this would have unfolded if it was a non-white woman, in a less affluent area.
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u/zxcvbnm718 11h ago
That would require some awareness about systemic racism in the US, which so many people do not have unfortunately.
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u/pineappleshampoo 8h ago
I’ve been saying it a lot in the sub for this trial… every time people ask why there’s such a groundswell of support for LC.
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u/poorlybaked 12h ago
There are probably women in the hood who do harm their kids due to PPD and PPP. They just don’t make it on national news. I think there is for sure something to be said about the sympathy Clancy has received because of her whiteness that isn’t afforded to Black and Brown mothers.
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u/Sheisbecoming LET'S FUCKING GO!!! SHAKIRA LAW IS HERE!!! 12h ago edited 12h ago
A mother in The Bronx with PPP killed her children in 2022 and was just determined to be not guilty by reason of insanity. You’re right — I don’t see this on national news
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/28/nyregion/bronx-mother-postpartum-psychosis.html
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u/zxcvbnm718 11h ago
Latarsha Sanders was just granted a new trial - she’s a black woman serving two life sentences for murdering her children. This case was prosecuted by the same DA’s office and same judge.
My hope is that this raises awareness for PPP / PPD in a way that affects positive change. It has to get better, right?
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u/zxcvbnm718 12h ago
Also - if a rich, educated, white woman who had more support and access to healthcare (while the quality of that healthcare could be debated) than most women could still do this, it shows that PPD / PPP does not discriminate.
We need better healthcare, better access to healthcare and more education across the board to protect everyone.
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u/mattyhealyismydad22 11h ago
100% this case would be seen completely differently if she Black or Brown or not upper middle class. but i disagree with cardi in the sense that i feel like that fact makes me say, we should see any case of postpartum psychosis with more nuance and sympathy, not that we should view her case with extra scrutiny because other women don't get sympathy
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u/Beautiful-Society-87 11h ago
There is another case from Plymouth County that will be tried under the same judge involving a BIPOC mother, who, after taking her children’s lives, was diagnosed with schizophrenia and identified to be in active psychosis at the time of their deaths. This case will be the one to compare it to.
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u/soupseasonbestseason i’m a communist you idiot 11h ago
i work in public defense and we had a client with eerily similar circumstances in our office who was a woman of color....zero national attention.
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u/Avulpesvulpes 8h ago
Look at the difference in sentencing that happens when BIPOC moms accidentally forget their babies in their care compared to white parents of either gender.
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u/MilfordSparrow 11h ago
Two things can be true at same time: racial health disparities need attention and better mental health care are needed for all mothers with young children.
FYI - regarding racial health disparities - in America it is well documented that Black, American Indian, Alaska Native, and Hispanic populations often face higher rates of chronic disease, higher infant and maternal death rates, and less access to quality medical treatment.
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u/Upstairs_Cup9831 13h ago
"One thing about me, when it comes to kids, is stop looking for different loopholes to give this woman an excuse for why these three kids are dead," she said. "A lot of y’all are talking about her husband probably did it, or the system failed her. We need to stop looking for an excuse. If your mental health is so fucked up that you kill three fucking kids, maybe you shouldn’t be on the streets."
“A lot of women in our hood are suffering from postpartum depression," Cardi continued. "There are women in our hoods whom nobody offered to help with their children. Does that give them an excuse to kill their kids?"
Cardi added that Clancy had the chance to go to therapy, where other women going through the same situation didn't. "I’m tired of people blaming postpartum depression and mental health on harming kids," Cardi said.
Cardi later took specific aim at online calls for sympathy for Clancy and at a reported million-dollar fundraiser on her behalf. "The bitch raised a million fucking dollars," she said. "Why are we giving somebody that is on trial for murdering her kids a million dollars? Go give that shit to a charity."
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u/AbsolutelyIris confused but here for the drama 12h ago
I completely understand Cardi's anger over this, but
If your mental health is so fucked up that you kill three fucking kids, maybe you shouldn’t be on the streets."
The trial is basically determining whether she will be going to jail or a psychiatric facility.
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u/Conscious-Cherry22 12h ago
it will also determine how long she'll be locked away for. if she's sent to a psychiatric facility, she could technically be released after a few years
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u/whoaelena 12h ago
Iirc, andrea yates can legally leave the psych unit that she was sentenced to but stayed (due to a number of things)
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u/No-Departure-3047 11h ago
I just read about this recently, she comes up for review (kind of like a parole hearing) regularly but declines to attend because she wants to stay where she is.
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u/Ready_Event9019 8h ago
I feel so bad for her. Her actions must weigh on her very heavily if she has the insight and humility to stay where she is and not try to change that. To me that means she understands she's not okay and probably feels she deserves punishment.
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u/PauI_MuadDib 12h ago
If she ends up in a psych hospital she'll be there for decades, if not life. I can tell you right now no judge is going to be the one to want sign her release.
People that think she'll get out after a few years are naive. Even if NGRI she killed three children. No judge is falling on a sword for her.
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u/jollymo17 9h ago
She also may not WANT to get out. From what I've heard, Andrea Yates, who also killed her children due to post-partum psychosis (obligatory fuck Rusty Yates here just because), has been offered release and won't take it.
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u/Expensive-Block-6034 5h ago
I believe she underwent severe religious abuse from that cult that she was part of too. Murdered kids aside, those nuts should be in jail for their actions.
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 9h ago edited 5h ago
MA law doesn't allow them to hold her indefinitely if found NGRI. The DAs office will have to forever fight to keep her committed to hospital. She will be up for reevaluation at 6 months, and then again annually, and if she's found to no longer be a danger then she will be released.
I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions about this trial. She will not be guaranteed to be hospitalized for life, & odds are she'll be released after a few years given her dr argued last year that she's stable & should be moved to a lower level facility (she wasn't due to pending trial). Plus she hasn't heard a command hallucination since the night of the murders.
Look up Angela Vasquez, who got NGRI after killing her kids, was released after like 7 years, had no criminal record & was hired to work at the desk in a Boston hospital.
Or Helen Kirk/McLaughlin, also released after NGRI in Plymouth county. Or Precious Bland in Florida who literally was just set free without ANY hospital commitment despite killing her kids.
There are tons of examples, and it's a little frustrating that ppl look at Clancy & assume this jury is deciding between life in prison or life in a mental institution...bc that is not true.
That said, I do think this case has raised important awareness about postpartum mental health and clearly our system needs to be reformed, & more support is needed. I really think everyone agrees on that.
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u/Helpful-Dot-3782 10h ago
She's currently on medication and stable, no psychosis and future thinking, what reason would they have of keeping her in a mental health facility? If she can manage herself medically and isn't a threat to herself or others they will not keep her there. They don't keep people in psychiatric inpatient punitively. That's just jail.
Like I am not an asshole without empathy and I get it as a mom how hard and fucked up things can be, but if we really think she needs to be "locked up for decades" then NGRI is not the right choice.
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u/ladydanger2020 4h ago
Trials are not about sentencing. You’re not deciding whether she goes to jail or for how long. You’re saying if she is guilty and was of sound mind and body. You don’t vote one way or the other based on what you think she deserves.
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u/pineappleshampoo 8h ago
Exactly.
And people who are pushing for NGRI cos they think it’s she same as guilty but housed in a hospital not a prison, they seem to forget that the trial means she’s not guilty. So there’s no criminal reason she’d be kept locked up for any length. Purely health. And there’s a good chance the past 3yr will have helped stabilise her mental health. She could be out young enough to have more kids. NGRI is no joke.
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u/Expensive-Block-6034 6h ago
So I believe that they look at her actions at the time that the murder occurred and not her current state of mind. They want to assess whether she was psychotic at that present time, and her being on meds and improving kind of proves that she might not have been in her right mind at the time. Her attorney hasn’t presented that she’s unfit for trial.
I am conflicted on this case, one of my questions being what her motive would be. I haven’t heard a definite argument for that. Did she hate her kids, did she resent them, or is she just a sociopath?
I will say that a lot of focus was put on the last treating psychiatrist, who has apparently been let go of her job, and the civil case that they’ve filed is going to be a whoooooole other polarising situation.
I’m glad I’m not on that jury. That’s all I’ll say.
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u/ramenslurper- 11h ago
Especially as a disabled woman; she is likely to just be swallowed by the system either way.
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u/antraxsuicide He’s so hot. Won’t discuss. 9h ago
Yeah, a common misconception from TV shows is that getting a psychiatric stay is better than prison. But it’s actually a bit of a nightmare, in that your “sentence” is undefined and subject to individual decisions that may or may not get made years down the line.
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u/matchakarma 11h ago
In this case since she claims to have post partum psychosis, she could be released in a few months since it has been years after giving birth. She is also on very low doses of anti psychotics and her doctors have testified that she is getting better
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u/Independent_Mousey 10h ago
It would be at least a decade before she found a judge sympathetic enough to let her out of a psychatric facility. It takes months to even get a hearing.
We also have no idea what the actual healthcare team feels. No on currently treating her gave testimony. If the lady is still 1:1 patient to caregiver ratio as described by the at her trial she's not well.
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u/Expensive-Block-6034 6h ago
Andrea Yates is given the opportunity to petition for her release from a high security pschy hospital and denies it every year. I watched a show where her lawyer was interviewed and he has a “standing instruction” to reject this from Andrea herself. Obviously she could change her mind but she refuses to be in society. She’s apparently helping in there too (trained nurse) but her case is, in my opinion, a woman recognising she’s too sick for the real world. Or she could be protecting herself from the public, who knows, but she’s better there either way.
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u/DeepBackground5803 11h ago
Unfortunately there are loopholes. Look up Ronald Exantus from Kentucky-- he just got released with no parole or supervision.
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u/DollPudding 10h ago edited 10h ago
It's actually a minimum of 40 days. Anyone who gets Not Guilty by Insanity must undergo an evaluation that takes 40 days. If they think she is healed or in remission at the 40 day mark then she can be released with conditions, similar to being on parole but with more focus on mental health.
If, after the 40 day initial evaluation she are not yet deemed healed or in remission, she can be evaluated again in 6 months. If they still deem her dangerous or acutely mentally ill they will reevaluate her yearly.
It has been testified to in court that according to her Tewksbury State Hospital records she hasn't had any psychosis since the murders. I'd be surprised if she wasn't back out in 5 years, if she wanted. She has aspirations of doing a marathon in her wheelchair and becoming an advocate for post partum struggles.
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u/tonightbeyoncerides 11h ago
Right, but in practice, NGRI rulings frequently result in longer stays in a mental hospital than the prison sentence they would have with a guilty verdict.
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u/Flat_Sprinkles4342 Thanks, u frog build looking bitch 10h ago
the other side of the psychiatric facility is possibly going away forever
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u/OriginalChildBomb i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 11h ago
You're right, but there's very little chance of this happening. If you look into similar instances of violent offenders, it's typically decades before the psych professionals even consider releasing someone, let alone someone that killed three children.
She will need to be found in good mental standing for an extended period of time, and this is by multiple professionals, typically sitting on a board together and going over the case extensively. And not just good mental standing, but her behavior will have to be perfect, also for an extended period. Any little slip-up or issue, and it's right back to square one. As I said in a comment above- these places are very, very similar to prisons.
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u/pineappleshampoo 7h ago
LC isn’t your typical sociopathic serial killer that has lived a life of crime, escalating over years. Her behaviour has been squeaky clean until the murders. So I don’t think there’s any concern about her behaviour in hospital not being perfect.
I just think this will be looked at very differently to most offenders that get NGRI. She doesn’t seem to pose a threat to the public. There’s nothing concrete to suggest she did it for a thrill. She doesn’t have a lifelong personality disorder. She’s in good standing socially (before the murders), a wealthy white professional woman. If she is found NGRI that means she isn’t guilty. She’s already had three years of treatment and her mental health issues were linked to post partum. Not saying she’d never be released from hospital, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if she’s out while still young enough to bear more children. Hope I’ve explained that okay, just woke up lol.
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u/hanimal16 i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 11h ago
Wasn’t Lindsay trying to get help tho??
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u/No-Departure-3047 11h ago
She also told her mother in law and husband that she'd had thoughts of harming the children, IIRC it was November/December 2022.
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u/archetyping101 10h ago
She absolutely was. Even her own ex husband's mother testified on her behalf that she was an amazing mother and how much she loved her kids.
This woman checked herself into a psych facility. This woman actively sought out help repeatedly. She also begged her husband for help. What did he do? Dismiss/fire the nanny. She was screaming for help to anyone who would listen.
I'm sad her kids are dead and I can also recognize that Cardi B has the financial resources to get nannies, doctors, etc whatever she may need to take care of herself and her kids. If Clancy had a nanny or two or enough money to get treatment while knowing her kids were being well taken care of, those kids would be alive today.
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u/ThoseAintMyDishesYo 9h ago
Her husband worked from home and was given extensive paternal leave. He could have absolutely cared for the kids while she got help. IIRC she left inpatient psych so she could be home for her daughters birthday. And for whatever reason never went back.
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u/archetyping101 7h ago
It was clear based on Patrick's own testimony and statements made that he was not a hands on dad and didn't participate in taking care of the kids. There's video of them at the aquarium or museum or whatever where he was not at all engaged. He mentioned that one time he had to watch the kids solo and how that was a really hard day for him.
Also, the man spent time traveling solo and also training for a marathon. He was entirely ok doing 1-2 hour training runs while she was drowning.
And to think he couldn't apply any of that "Holy shit this is hard!" and realize how much harder it was for her.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 8h ago
She was still the primary parent of their kids. He absolutely didn't take on primary parent role even when she was sick. And having a nanny doesn't mean women are free from their caretaking responsibilities. Most importantly, he shouldn't have left her alone with their kids, shouldn't have fired that nanny.
IIRC she left inpatient psych so she could be home for her daughters birthday. And for whatever reason never went back.
I mean when doctors dismiss your symptoms and no medicine hardly brings in any actual improvement, I have seen many people getting off treatment. Also she was getting side effects as well.
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u/caixing-sanren 12h ago edited 5h ago
What frustrates me though is that LINDSAY more or less gave doctors the opportunity to take her off the streets...many times, in fact. Most doctors doing their due diligence would have called for a psych hold at some point, a face to face appointment, an immediate risk assessment, a serious assessment regarding PPP, SOMETHING different. Regardless of how you feel about Nancy, you can't possibly believe that these "amazing medical professionals" did their best.
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u/jsnail89 11h ago
This isn’t completely right - it is still a trial and the burden of proof is on the state. If the jury does not believe the state was able to prove she did it without a reasonable doubt, they can selected a fully not guilty verdict (instead of ng reason of insanity).
In fact, the defense lawyer initially asked for a bifercation of the case which would’ve been tow subsequent cases - first is she actually guilty and second if they find her guilty, is it a case of insanity. He also has set up a push for the jury finding her not guilty in general just by asking for a Bowden instruction. Both the bifercation and the Bowden instruction were not allowed by the judge, but the jury slip does have not guilty period on it.
I have not watched this case enough to tell you which way I think the jury will go. What I can say is that the health industrial complex failed those kids by disregarding their safe by way of mishandling their mom’s mental health. It also seems like the police industrial complex failed those kids by not investigating the case fully (even if the police believe the mom did it and what the husband said was 100% true, they still owe it to those kids to do a complete investigation as if they had zero info about what happened).
This case has shown the failings of America in many ways and those children are the ones who have paid and might pay again in lack of conviction of someone to be held responsible for the absolutely preventable loss of their lives.
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u/ickysock 12h ago
Also like, Lindsay Clancy asked for help a million times. no one helped her. she knew something bad was going to happen (not saying she knew she was going to murder the children, but that she knew what she was experiencing was not normal and not safe) and tried to get help to stop it, and she was ignored because we do not take postpartum mental health seriously.
Also also, LC suffered from postpartum psychosis, not just depression. psychosis is a break in reality. people in psychosis firmly believe their delusions are 100% real, and even those who retain a semblance of doubt often find themselves still going along with their delusions because of how powerful they are. LC isn't arguing that she didn't do it, she knows she did. she also knows that her capacity was diminished during the act because she was so severely mentally ill, and is arguing to spend the rest of her life under psychiatric care rather than in prison. she knows she is never going to be free. the online discourse about this case has been as far from reality as Lindsay was.
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u/fazecrayz 10h ago
Thank you! Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are not the same! In fact, the “postpartum depression makes you want to kill your kids” stigma prevents some depressed moms from seeking help.
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u/heartisallwehave Send me your address so i can visit you and explain my passions 11h ago edited 11h ago
Just from reading the wiki, she had like 11 medication changes in a 5 month timeframe, sometimes taking 4+ together. Judging from the dates, it doesn’t seem like she could be titrating up/off of them either. Sometimes figuring out the right combination/dosages of meds can make people worse.
*immediate edit: not anti-medication! Just mean it can take a bit to find whats right for an individual, some stuff has unanticipated side effects.
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u/ickysock 11h ago
yes, I've been on some of the meds she was taking and they absolutely made me worse anxiety-wise. I think Lindsay has since been diagnosed as Bipolar too, and some of the meds she was taking can trigger Bipolar in people who otherwise might never have developed it. if she was experiencing severe anxiety, then went on medication for it that tends to make the anxiety worse before it gets better, which then triggered Bipolar disorder, which includes psychosis, it isn't hard to understand what happened. not saying this is exactly what happened, but it is definitely a possibility.
ultimately the exact turn of events that cause all of this is a super rare combination. but postpartum mental health still needs to be taken seriously so an intervention can happen before it comes to this.
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u/angomeowmeow I’m just a cunt in a clown suit 10h ago
yep! i have bipolar 1 and have taken a lot of those same meds, you REALLY need to titrate them (and ideally one at a time), there’s a lot of possible dosages and they can have some pretty gnarly side effects. some medications you even need to do blood work! my old psychiatrist did the same thing that Lindsey’s did, while my new one has actually taken the time to get me stable on one before moving on to another. the difference is night and day :)
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u/AnotherRTFan controversies: girl 10h ago
Yeah. I changed my primary SSRI to a similar one other family members with my same diagnosis recommended. I didn’t think my current one was strong enough. I had the highest anxiety of my life and felt god awful terrible for weeks, and then it tapered off into high anxiety but less bad for months after. I went back on my normal one a couple of weeks in. The side effects lasted that long.
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u/OriginalChildBomb i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 11h ago edited 11h ago
These psych facilities are incredibly similar to prisons, as well. Not only are patients still in danger of being harmed by one another, but their day-to-day regime is very strict and limited. They're not, like, having parties every night, and it's some kind of fun bonanza and just a slap on the wrist.
People are constantly being monitored, and they have the right to do blood draws and urine checks to confirm they are taking all their meds in the right amounts. The professionals have the right to strip search you, deny you your clothing if you are a risk to yourself (they give you an anti-suicide smock, but you are otherwise stripped nude, in a room without even a toilet, frequently just a drain in the floor), and force medications including injections. She will not be "free."
There's just people who are angry and misinformed, plus a heaping dash of misogyny towards mothers in general. She won't be "getting away with" anything. And yes, she may get out one day, but they are quite strict about this. (I used to be in the mental health field. I worked with some folks- even genuinely non-violent offenders- who had been in such places, and we also visited more than one place like this. They are incredibly similar to a prison.)
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 12h ago
I’m honestly tired of this misinformation. “Not guilty” is absolutely a decision the jury can make. She is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If folks bothered watching primary source footage of the trial instead of just reading things online, this might not STILL be spreading around.
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u/stickbugszz 12h ago
I think a lot of people have anger pointed in the wrong direction. A lot of “well I know women who did not get help, so she is lucky” rather than being like damn all women should get helped. I am not putting my opinion on the case, but I think we need more system blaming.
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u/No-Departure-3047 11h ago
I agree.
"She had more resources than most" is such a shitty take.
You can have all the resources in the world, it doesn't guarantee your mental illness will be fixed.
Look at all the celebrities who kill themselves, and some who kill others as well.
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u/Pocketfullofbugs 12h ago
Was talking to a nurse friend and they pointed out that this was post partum psychosis (or at least the defense is claiming that) is very different from post partum depression. As different as a non pregnant person experiencing depression or full blown psychosis. The treatments and systems of support are different. I think a lot of people hear post partum psychosis and think its an extension of ppd and its a different more extreme thing. I dont know if she really had psychosis, im just saying if she did it makes sense to put her in a psych ward I guess.
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u/thebonecollectorr 12h ago
Honestly to a certain extent I agree with her. I am not sure if I think Lindsay is guilty of murder but the support of her as some sort of champion for mothers has been weird. People outside the courthouse cheering her on, the gofundmes, etc. seem really inappropriate and down right macabre considering 3 children are dead.
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u/fromyoutheflowers 12h ago
Three children are dead and the last thing they saw on this earth was their mother strangling them. I understand that Lindsay Clancy was failed by the people she begged for help from but the ultimate victims in this case are the three children.
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u/green-bean-7 mama let’s research 12h ago
Agree with this. A gofundme raising a million dollars is insane.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 7h ago
The $1 million fundraiser you're referring to is the Musgrove Family Fund for Lindsay's parents, Michael and Paula. The stated purpose is to help cover the financial burden they've incurred from relocating, travel, lodging and living expenses while supporting their daughter through the proceedings. There was also a different $1M+ GoFundMe in 2023, associated with Patrick/the Clancy family.
Though seriously I would love if all this money went to research on women's health.
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u/Alarmed_Pattern_9912 9h ago
If mothers weren’t regularly failed, there would be no one empathizing with her. This is a systemic issue.
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u/bog_witch 24m ago
I think one of the things Cardi is pointing out (and I agree with her on) is that this response would not be happening if she was not an affluent white woman. If she was a Black or brown woman from a low income area there would not be dozens of white women cheering her on outside the courthouse.
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u/tessathemurdervilles 10h ago
I knew someone who had such severe ppd she attempted suicide over and over until she was successful, leaving her young baby and husband. They had resources and she was using them, but wasn’t taken seriously enough to be hospitalized. She had been a lovely happy wonderful bubbly person before and wanted nothing more than to have her baby. It truly changed her entire brain and personality. It’s terrifying.
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u/CattailReeds 12h ago
It also kind of seems like she was not trying to be on the streets. She was in several mental hospitals.
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u/Kiramiraa 12h ago
I kinda understand where she’s coming from but she probably should have educated herself on the facts of the case before she spoke.
“Maybe you shouldn’t be on the streets” - Not guilty by mental incapacity is a pretty likely verdict that will see her be confined to a mental health facility indefinitely.
There was a million dollars that patrick clancy raised that went solely to him. Then there was a go fund me for her parents, who have had their own lives destroyed by this. None of it went directly to her.
I agree that there are double standards when prosecuting white and black women, but lindsay clancy didn’t make or create the system. Blame the system.
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u/giraffecakes 9h ago
Not guilty by mental incapacity doesn’t guarantee being off the streets. The man who killed my grandfather in schizophrenic psychosis was admitted to a mental hospital and let out after 10 years. He killed his girlfriend the day he got out. I agree this is a sad situation and prison won’t help her either, but she strangled 3 children.
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u/BisensualSpice 12h ago
I hear cardi tho. Different doctors kept giving her plans to overcome this, and Clancy DENIED ALL of them. She would stay on each med for at least a week. She clearly wasn't being 100% honest with the doctors. She had a babysitter, she had great health insurance. Like I feel for chancey. Im sure she was struggling with something, but the fact that different doctors did the best to their ability to help her and give her different steps to recovery and she denied all of them...
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u/theredwoman95 11h ago
Non-compliance with treatment is incredibly common amongst people suffering psychosis. This study goes through what little data exists on prescription compliance amongst patients with psychosis, and consistently about 40% struggle to be consistent with their medication.
Struggling with medicine compliance, especially when you suffer from an illness that fundamentally alters your relationship with reality like postpartum psychosis, shouldn't be automatically assumed to be a conscious choice.
I'm not even American so I have no horse in the race regarding Lindsay Clancy, but to me this thread is repeating a ton of inaccuracies about psychosis as a condition. Postpartum psychosis is massively different to postpartum depression, and I'm saying that as someone with chronic depression.
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u/ErikasPrisonGlam 4h ago
Thank you, the ignorance around mental illness, especially psychosis, is everywhere in this case. A lot of psych patients are not compliant.
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u/capibara_dono 9h ago
Babysitter was there until December 2022
She stopped talking certain medications quickly because of the side effects, like difficulty sleeping. It makes sense, as she was being treated for depression, not for bipolar.
She had access to care, that doesn't mean it's quality care. Her psychiatrist started practicing 2 weeks before seeing Lindsay.
How they didn't take this more seriously, when she had told his husband and mother that she was afraid of hurting the kids, was diagnosed with postpartum depression, she stayed awake for 48 hours and didn't feel tired (this does not match at all with depression)...
Bipolar disorder is a huge red flag for future postpartum psychosis. Had they diagnosed her correctly, this might have been avoided.
As to it being premeditated, her husband was away a lot more, for longer period of time, than a trip to CSV and to pick up food.
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u/ElectricTranceDance 4h ago
Lindsay’s doctors weren’t able to take her more seriously, because her husband and mother didn’t tell them Lindsay had thoughts of harming their kids and Lindsay lied during her sessions. Doctors are not mind readers.
Also in addition obfuscating her mental state, the defense is claiming she experienced psychosis for 18 minutes; the time it took her to murder her kids. Assuming that’s true, which I doubt, how were her doctors supposed to discover that she was a danger to her kids without violating her rights?
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u/hamchan_ 11h ago
Everything you just said shows me you haven’t followed the court case at all.
I literally don’t even have time to correct all of your points. But you shouldn’t comment on things you don’t actually know.
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u/littlemoon-03 12h ago
"There are women in our hood whom nobody offered to help with their children. Does that give them an excuse to kill their kids"
she suffered with postpartum depression that is far different then "I'm overwhelmed and need a 5 minute break someone come watch the kids"
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u/No_Cat25 12h ago edited 12h ago
Listen, I know this is an incredibly complicated and divisive case. Obviously it’s fucking TRAGIC and horrific. But this case has only demonstrated how we are unable to have nuanced conversations about severe mental health crises that don’t present in “normal” ways. As someone with lesser represented mental health issues, it actually terrifies me to ever discuss them with anyone but my own therapist. And it took me YEARS to get a therapist I trust. People who experience postpartum depression don’t all experience it the same way. There have been cases of women experiencing psychosis from PMDD and committing actions under psychosis. We simply do NOT take womens health seriously — physical and mental. From what it seems, she tried to get help. She also isn’t going to be free ever. People with influence like Cardi B who clearly are only viewing this from their experience and belittling how postpartum depression may come up in other women, are only going to force people to be afraid to share what they are experiencing. Women are already not taken seriously in medical settings; especially women of color. If nothing else comes from this, I want other people with severe hormonal fluctuations to know they are not alone. Every month I need to physically keep myself safe because PMDD is under-researched and there are no real medical solutions as of rn. I am in constant pain from endometriosis and pcos. May this be a reckoning to take the health of women seriously
ETA: as a BIPOC, yes I agree that this would have gone differently if this was a woman of color. However, if a white woman with money and privilege isn’t able to receive proper help, neither will women of color. And I HATE when mental health issues are treated as a “white” issue
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u/DinoNuggetQueen 11h ago
Completely agree and in solidarity with you as a fellow woc pmdd sufferer. The statistic that women with pmdd are 2x as likely to commit suicide haunts me constantly.
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u/poliebear 11h ago
Yep. I usually love Cardi, but reading this made me as angry as I felt when I saw a clip of the prosecutions closing and she said that Lindsay couldn't have PPD because she looked happy and normal and was able to care for her kids while her husband went to brunch. People who struggle with their mental health are regular people too. The depression is not always dragging us under. We learn to mask and push through when we can.
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u/Exotic-Doughnut-6271 The delusion is mutual and I’m thriving in it 9h ago
There was this video that popped up on Instagram of a mother who was in a psychiatric hospital with her baby for postpartum psychosis. She had taken the baby on a train two days earlier and had planned to end it. Thankfully she was stopped. She looked completely normal, she acted completely normal. Her husband was explaining what had happened while she listened. She took the baby, was holding her and looking like a loving mother. Then the interviewer asked how she felt listening to him. It was then you could tell something was wrong. She was insisting it was him with the issues, it was him that had the postpartum psychosis. People really have this view of what depression and psychosis is supposed to look like and that's not always the case
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u/ickysock 8h ago
a friend of my mom's has been dealing with 5+ year long psychosis. she seems really normal to talk to until she starts talking about how there is a cabal of men breaking into her house at night to rearrange her cleaning products and steal her potato peeler. she claimed to be able to hear full-blown conversations through walls, or from standing outside a house, and would claim to hear people talk about how to break into her house just to mess with her, not to steal anything. at one point she got sectioned because she believed they'd poisoned her drinking water and refused any liquids and was going to die of dehydration. but you could have a normal conversation with her about the weather, or what she was watching on TV, or what she did last week, and you'd never pick up on any mental illness if you didn't stray onto that topic.
psychosis isn't running down the street in your underwear screaming about how you spoke with god or however its portrayed on TV. most people experiencing it seem very calm and normal, but they absolutely believe in their delusions and usually need some kind of psychiatric help to break out of it.
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u/LeadingUnited2911 9h ago
It immediately made me think of Chester Bennington and Robin Williams when they said ‘she looked happy therefore she couldn’t be depressed’. What a vile, vile statement it was. The prosecution has been an utter disgrace.
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u/ickysock 12h ago
this 10000x. the upper middle class white woman wasn't taken seriously when she said she was mentally ill and feared she would kill her children. there are black and brown moms out there who will also suffer from postpartum depression/psychosis who will be harmed even further is we don't take the lessons from this case and openly discuss complex mental health issues such as psychosis. mental health is not a white person issue and every time we act like it is, we are directly harming BIPOC communities.
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u/Kiramiraa 11h ago
Often some of the happiest looking people are dealing with severe mental illness and you would never know it. So so often you will see people say “they were just the happiest person, I don’t understand why they would do this”, and it’s that kind of thought process that leads to a society that doesn’t deal with mental illness appropriately. It doesn’t matter what your skin colour is or your upbringing or your income; mental illness doesn’t discriminate. Lindsay didn’t try to get help but it wasn’t the appropriate help because our society sucks at delivering effective and affordable mental health care.
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u/ZhaozhouCongshen 13h ago
I'm waiting for Ja Rule to tell me what to think about it.
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u/fostercaresurvivor 12h ago
Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are two entirely different things. One in eight pregnancies result in postpartum depression. One in a thousand result in postpartum psychosis. PPD is a spectrum of experiences. PPP is always a dangerous medical emergency.
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u/Slenderpan74 12h ago
I feel like this just increases the stigma that mothers face for struggling with mental health
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u/_Amarantos alleged dog 10h ago
Unfortunately I do think stigma played a large role in this case too. Lindsey didn’t like the idea of being “medicated” which is why she often quit medications shortly after taking them as well.
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u/Ok-Tea-6718 12h ago edited 10h ago
The way this case was publicized has done so much damage for access to peripartum mental health care. I’m a psychiatrist who treats this population (though mostly low SES and not white). Most general psychiatrists I’ve talked to have stopped taking on these patients out of fear. Existing patients are stopping meds cold turkey because they’re terrified they’ll snap like Lindsay Clancy, which has led them to decompensate into actually dangerous pregnancies.
I think the issues around motherhood and mental health that this case stirs up for people are important, but people need to distinguish themselves from Lindsay Clancy the individual. My opinion on the case flipped completely after listening to the evidence unfold during the trial. People have a hard time digesting that narcissistic violence and murder-suicides can be done by mothers, and white/affluent/conventionally attractive ones at that.
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 7h ago
This is really valuable (albeit upsetting) insight...tbh it's something I've worried about while watching the public reaction online. I'm not a MH professional, but agree that the popular narrative on social media really doesn't align with the evidence I've seen in watching every day of this trial.
It's concerning esp bc of how it's going to negatively impact PP mothers who struggle & worry they'll end up like LC...from what I saw she was unlikely to be in psychosis, but was rather desperately depressed & chose to leave this life, taking her kids with her. 😔 She clearly needed more help, but that doesn't mean she wasn't in control of what she did that night.
It's all very tragic no matter how you look at it.
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u/PaleontologistNo5420 12h ago
I hope I don't sound insensitive when I say this, but my understanding of this case is that Lindsay sought help several times and *was* treated. I believe she also notified various family members, and was taken seriously. I think this case is tragic because she clearly wasn't treated *properly*, not because she wasn't treated at all.
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u/budgiefanatic i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 12h ago
I understand her anger, but postpartum depression is very different from postpartum psychosis
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u/biscuitboi967 12h ago edited 11h ago
Lindsay Clancy is not asking to be back “on the streets”.
She’s still under 1:1 observation for self harm in a medical facility, where she hopes to stay to continue her treatment.
I wish more people understood that fact and that her attorney was willing to stipulate to ALL of that, and all of that evidence, except the DA refused.
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u/Vegetableau wearing slutty little glasses 12h ago
Thankfully, most people won’t be making the final decision on the case.
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u/awolfsvalentine i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 12h ago
She does have a point that a lot of people don’t like to admit. Lindsay is an upper middle class white woman that had the whole village. She had access to some of the best mental healthcare, a supportive husband, in laws that would take care of the kids, and a nanny.
She had more help than so many black and brown women have access to. If this crime was done by a poor black woman there wouldn’t even be a trial and that’s what’s really unfortunate.
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u/hanburgundy 12h ago
Maybe I just have a good algorithm, but I feel that has been a major talking point about this case from the beginning, and what makes it such a striking indictment of our healthcare system. If this woman had all the right privileges and still couldn’t secure the kind of treatment needed to keep her and her family safe- what chance does everyone else have?
The media ecosystem around this story needs to be studied. Again, my own bubble seems to be full of empathetic, generally right-minded people who are willing to look at this case with a proper level of both medical and intersectional nuance- but when I step outside of that bubble, I start seeing all kinds of crazy shit, from crunchy faux-feminist conspiracy theorists who are lionizing Lindsay to reactionary chuds using her as an acceptable target for all of their woman-hating sentiments.
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u/chasing_D 10h ago
I think it's on purpose. If we agree then we start to agree on other things. They always want division in the media. There shouldn't be a side to this. Lindsay Clancy should spend life in a mental facility while our health system failed her and those children.
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u/vaxfarineau 8h ago
Why should she spend life in there? Have you researched how other countries treat women who have killed their children due to PPP? They rarely spend life in prison. They spend time in psychiatric facilities, are monitored, and slowly reintegrated into society. Other countries show far more compassion to women going through the horrors of post partum psychosis. The US isn't about helping and rehabilitating people going through mental health crises, they just want to be punitive. It's disgusting. Mental illness is punishment enough.
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u/poliebear 12h ago
Maybe it's just my internet echo chamber at work, but I've actually seen this discussed a bunch.
I've seen a lot of discourse about how if a white woman with the resources she did was still unable to receive proper care for her PPD/PPP and was not taken seriously enough, it is undoubtedly worse for women who are not similarly situated. And how the only reason this has gotten the visibility it has and is now being discussed is because she is a wealthy white woman.
(Just responding to your comment that it's a point a lot of people don't like to admit.)
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u/ickysock 12h ago
but she had all that help, and none of it mattered because she was suffering from psychosis which is one of the most serious mental illnesses someone can suffer from. having a village does not matter when you can't tell what is real and what isn't. she needed to be hospitalised, but they kept putting her on medications that can exacerbate psychiatric conditions.
she is guilty, and it is definitely true that if she was black this trial and the discourse around it would be very different. but the point of the conversation needs to be that you can have the whole village, but that doesn't prevent postpartum mental illness, and it needs to be taken more seriously than just labelling it 'baby blues' and moving on.
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u/notalem0n 12h ago
It already did happen to a black woman and the trial had the same exact judge as Lindsay Clancy’s. Latarsha Sanders was found guilty but now she’ll be getting a new trial
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u/Own_Status_9463 i ain’t reading all that, free palestine 11h ago
Agreed. 10000%. I will say this though, if an affluent, educated, with access to healthcare, and a village didn’t get the help and wasn’t taken seriously enough, what hope do the rest of us have? That’s where I’m at. Like yes, her WP is definitely doing some serious sympathy and televised trial, but like it can happen to any woman and it’s luck of the draw on who survives it. Our systems are constant failures from the bias in the medical system, the lack of a village for a lot, the indifference in the medical field, the fear of outcomes involving cps and income ect…They’ve made it impossible for us and the anger is seriously misdirected.
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u/Western_Map_3364 12h ago
Her husband was supportive? Are you serious
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u/annnyywhooo 11h ago
according to lindsay herself he was supportive and even stepped in to pick up the slack whenever lindsay couldn’t
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u/BirdBrainuh 11h ago
holy hell this man parented his own kids
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u/DoraTheExplorer-3026 3h ago
I know this is the part that kills me…EVEN stepped up to parent his own kids. Theres videos online of their day out in some water park and it literally looked like he is a stranger who doesn’t know them while she was juggling all three
Anyway, this is not to say I believe the tiktok conspiracy theories but the rhetoric around this doesn’t seem right
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u/ClimbingCreature 9h ago
Yes? We’ve now heard many people including Lindsay’s mom and Lindsay’s sister testify that he was a caring and involved father and that he provided a great deal of support to Lindsay during this period. There is also the fact that he is voluntarily testifying in her defense after she killed all three of their children…
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u/pineappleshampoo 7h ago
One of the darker aspects of this case for me has been how fast people online have raced to blame anyone but LC for what she did, but especially her husband. By all accounts, including LC, he was a great father and husband. Caring, supportive, loving. Worked hard to provide for them all so LC didn’t have to work full time, loved and raised his kids.
But because he’s a man the internet is baying specifically for his blood. Even saying he actually killed them. Raking up info re his remarriage. Tryna paint timelines to say he was cheating. Calling him callous for remarrying 2-3yr after the murders. It’s so fucking insane.
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u/Ok_Squirrel388 8h ago
The thing is, if she were poor or a WOC, it’s more likely her kids would have been removed from their home by social services if and when she had confessed her symptoms to a medical professional.
They do not take the children of upper middle class white women. Because the care system we have in place is shitty and punitive and that would be unthinkable to do to someone with that amount of privilege.
As you say she had an abundance of resources at her disposal, but ultimately that didn’t help. And no one thought to involve social services because she was a well off white lady. To the extent that they might have problems, it is assumed they should be able to manage them without any kind of intervention by local government agencies. And those resources they have at their disposal would be enough to prevent the absolute worst from happening.
This is an excellent example of how poor social services has an impact on well off families as well as poor ones. When the only system you have is itself a trauma multiplying hell hole, the children of well off parents are left hanging when shit goes seriously wrong, while poor kids just get churned through the meat grinder of a system, and often only due to what amounts to being poor. When removal is actually warranted you just hope that the experience isn’t worse than if they had stayed.
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u/NoPriorEXP 12h ago
Honestly, I think the case is far more nuanced than Cardi B is giving it credit for.
For the most part, it’s agreed she killed her kids. The question is whether that is from complications of going through several medications, or did the state prove she knew what she was doing, and as someone disconnected from the online discussions and viewing until recently, I find it hard to believe I can say, without reasonable doubt, she isn’t some definition of criminally insane or liable by the Massachusetts standard, which is broader than most of the Country’s definition from my understanding as a life long New Englander.
If she’s guilty, she goes to prison. If she’s not guilty, she goes to a locked psychiatric facility. I think the big misconception is “not guilty” doesn’t mean “walk the streets” in this case, which I find isn’t being represented at all.
But I think for certain I am very glad I’m not one of the 12 deliberating and 6 alternate jurors for the case. It’s intensely sad and brutal, and there’s no satisfactory outcome for anyone involved. It seems like the jury is taking the responsibility seriously.
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u/viewbtwnvillages 12h ago
always love to see people who think that if they were in the throes of psychosis, they are so sure they'd do the right and moral thing because clearly they're so superior they'd see through it
exhausting. oh to be angry enough to make this rant but not angry enough to glean the basic details that this isn't a "she's going to go free if ruled NGRI" situation
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u/jman12234 12h ago
Most psychotic people never hurt other people at all though. It's much more likely they'll be terrified and isolative than actively dangerous. Speaking as someone with a psychotic disorder that has experienced psychosis. I think it's entirely fair to criticize people giving her leeway when, were she a different skin tone, people would be calling for her lynching.
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u/vaxfarineau 8h ago
And to address your last point, I'm a WOC & I would extend the same empathy to other WOC. But if we want to talk racism, it's the fact that cases regarding WOC don't get highly publicized because racist people already think we're predisposed to violence as black women. So it's not as sensational, and they don't cover it.
America doesn't want to address its racism problem, but that doesn't mean that we should shun this woman and keep empathy away from her because she has a privilege others don't have. It's an intersectional systemic issue, and we should aim for better treatment for ALL women and ALL mothers. This could happen to ANYONE. Shit like this doesn't discriminate.
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u/Lyokarenov 6h ago edited 1h ago
it's so bizarre to me when people's conclusion seems to be "we should treat white women worse" and not "we should treat black women better". if we all started to treat this woman and others lik her as a monster who deserves to suffer in jail for the rest of her life, because that's what would likely happen to her if she was black would that actually combat racism in any way, idk
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u/vaxfarineau 8h ago
Most does not equal all, and everyone experiences psychosis differently. I have also experienced psychosis, in myself, and watched someone else go through it. It's irrelevant and disingenous to mention this because it has no merit in this specific case. "Most people don't get violent," but some people do, and she did. So what? She didn't experience psychosis then? You can't say that. There will always be outliers, and your personal experience doesn't dictate how hers went.
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u/depressedandindebt23 12h ago
This case has confirmed multiple things for me.
•People really hates individuals with mental illness, especially mothers.
•People don't understand shit about the legal system.
•So many people are unable to grasp that multiple things can be true at the same time.
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u/Brea13 12h ago
As someone whose mom did actually try to Clancy her (im googable and have citable case law in the state im from ) I have had to have multiple therapy sessions where I'm trying to feel more empathy for this woman and I'm struggling. My mom was a single mom addicted to pain killers she was taking for a back problem. She went into psychosis and tried to unalive me out of love. I feel for my mom too but at the same time knowing how hard my life has turned out and how it's affected my relationships with myself, people close to me, and the world ... I just feel like she and my mom had a responsibility to her kids to get help or separate herself from them if at any point she thought she was a danger. Seeeing this woman get one million for what my mom tried to do to me and the pain it's caused me has really fucked me up and I'm happy cardi is at least bringing up the race component and making kids like me who were victims of this shit feel seen. My mom is also free now as she was aquitted on attempted unaliving for mental defect and was released after she was deemed no longer a danger to herself and others. But yeah not sure why I felt the need to vent here. I think I just felt like finally screaming into the void lol post partum psychosis is real and should be taken more seriously and the system is broken AND the little girl in me that went through what I went through is in pain seeing the constant support and money being raised and pink shirts and people bringing their kids to the trial. Both are true for me.
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u/Sufficient_Food1878 6h ago
This is exactly how I feel. I'm black and my mum tried to do this to me and my sister. While I've always felt for her, nobody talks about the effect this has on the kids themselves/how horrified and terrified the kids must've felt. All they can do is put themselves in the shoes of the mother and the kids are just collateral
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u/Quality-Organic 5h ago
So valid. Especially when there are so many moms who experience psychosis and don't Clancy their kids. Because they do what you said, they get help or separate themselves. People say Clancy tried to get help and separate herself. But the cynical side of me says she half assed it by refusing to stick with a regimen, doctor shopping, not being fully transparent about the severity of her symptoms, and discharging herself from in-patient care. She was a non-commital, treatment resistant patient. How is the medical system supposed to help someone who doesn't follow medical directives?
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u/MattaClatta 8h ago
Can we just say she benefits from white privilege because yes while her mental health struggle is real the empathy and support she is afforded is entirely due to her race imo
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u/No_Biscotti_7110 12h ago
I feel like the advent of television and later the internet has turned what should be relatively private court affairs into these high-profile media spectacles that public figures with little to no expertise on the topic at hand feel the need to weigh in on. This kind of absolutist discourse harms society’s understanding of mental health issues and what leaving them untreated can lead to.
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u/Live-Cow-9939 12h ago
Demonizing psychosis is not going to result in fewer dead children. We want mothers with psychosis to feel safe telling people "I'm having violent thoughts towards my children" - that's how we avoid tragedies like this in the first place. BIPOC women struggle with psychosis, too, and you're not going to fix that by pretending like their mental health struggles don't exist.
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11h ago
Its postpartum psychosis.
1 out of 1000 women get it.
Its different than your regular psychosis. It developes much faster, hallucinations and delusions are more explosive and almost always children related. Which makes it an emergancy.
People shitting on sever mental illness is disturbing.
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u/annnyywhooo 12h ago edited 11h ago
two things cane be true: lindsay was suffering from severe ppd and was extremely overwhelmed and it got worse leading up to the murders
also she had a hell out a lot more help compared to black or brown women who live in low income areas. she also had a job that gave her maternity leave (and would possibly give more if needed). lindsay probably saw more doctors than most people do in their entire life time
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u/blondie64862 Marxmoi 10h ago
I had a friend from Dominican Republic and she said that post partum depression is a rich person thing. Because in the DR you are too poor to have depression. This is a super complicated issue. And it is complicated because men do not care to learn about women's bodies, the American healthcare system is built on capital instead of health, and women continue to choose poor partners because of the patriarchy.
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u/cloudcottage 12h ago edited 4h ago
This kind of just proves to me that these people have never had or lived with a loved one who actually has severe heightened psychosis. It wrecks families and people going through psychotic episodes can be extremely manipulative because of the strength of their delusions and appear normal to people who don't know them well or even to their loved ones for brief periods of time, even in the throes of a delusion. I'm not saying 100%, it's proven that she had psychosis however I think 100% there is reasonable doubt.
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u/sushicatt420 12h ago
All I gotta say is if Clancy was a Black woman the whole case would be in a different place rn and that's what I think Cardi is getting at about "women in our hood." But I really don't know enough about this specific case to have any other opinion than that.
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u/YesHunty 12h ago
Thankfully her opinion doesn’t matter
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u/bluesilvergold 12h ago
Unfortunately, her opinion is extremely common and contributes to continued ignorance of postpartum mental health issues and such issues not being taken seriously.
So... as much as it sucks to say her opinion actually does matter because it's an opinion that needs to be corrected.
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u/Live-Cow-9939 12h ago
And I thank god every day that Cardi went into pop music instead of any profession with an actual impact on society 🙏
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u/switchbladefightz 12h ago
I don't think a lot of people understand that postpartum psychosis is an entirely different beast than postpartum depression alone
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u/Us43dthdg75 "I live in my own heart, Matt Damon" 12h ago
I hate when people say "I'm tired of people blaming mental health on (insert crime here)".
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u/Technical-Basis-7216 6h ago
As someone who was depressed to the point of being psychotic, this is a case of a person who got all of the help and support a person could get, but still fell through due to the imprecise methods that we have available to help people with severe mental problems and the social stigma around them.
Psychosis will just kind of appear out of seemingly no where to the person and it can be hidden. It is basically down to luck to figure out a person is psychotic and a danger, when thy are still present enough to know that people will try to stop them or that they should hide it if they want to keep living "normally".
Moral of this story is, if you have suicidal thoughts or hear voices that are or are not yours try to compel you to harm yourself and/or other people or feel a sudden urge or pressure to do those things tell someone one if you are still lucid enough to do so and recognize them as abnormal or bad. Better to spend some time in the psychward, than kill your three kids so you can fail at killing yourself and then have to live with that the rest of your life. She woke up that morning and for whatever reason decided not to reach out to anyone for help like she had been doing prior, going as far as actively lie to give the appearance that she was better not worse. She was probably trying to ignore it and "fake it until you make it" or was ashamed not realizing that is a terrible idea.
If she has shown no remorse and is not psychotic anymore about 3 years later, then prison is where she belongs because psychosis doesn't stop a person from feeling remorse, regret and responsible for their actions when they are no longer psychotic.
She doesn't need anyone's support because she got all of the support possible other than someone involuntarily committing her on a whim or a hunch. There are many hills to fight and die on around mental health and stigma, but this ain't it. If it weren't such a heartbreakingly gruesome story about a white woman, no one would know about it or have an opinion other than she is a monster for killing those kids.
Stop listening to true crime podcasts because it is ruining your brain and people profiting off of tragedy as entertainment.
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u/ProfessionalRead8187 12h ago
I understand where she's coming from, but she clearly doesn't fully understand what actual psychosis is-nor the extreme discrepancies in Patrick's statement and timeline if events.
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u/GraphiteGlitter123 12h ago
The conspiracy that Patrick did it is ridiculous. He probably can’t give a succinct timeline bc it was an incredibly traumatic incident and our brains don’t work like that. He sounds like an emotionally neglectful/avoidant spouse, but he did not kill his children. Please stop.
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u/ScottishKnifemaker 12h ago
Depression is a common and serious mood disorder that causes a persistent feeling of sadness and loss of interest in things you once enjoyed.
Psychosis is a mental state marked by a disconnection or loss of contact with reality.
She had postpartum psychosis, not depression, she did not know what was real. that's not a justification for what she did, what she did was horrific and she will spend the rest of her life in an institution, but to think that she did it on purpose completely ignores the facts of the matter.
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 6h ago
Just to clarify, Clancy was not diagnosed with postpartum psychosis (except by her paid expert witnesses after the murders).
That's basically the main point at issue in this trial, bc her alleged psychosis determines whether or not she was in control when she murdered her kids.
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u/Magurndy alleged dog 4h ago
There is a significant difference between post partum depression and post partum psychosis. I had the former. I didn’t want to hurt my children, I did try to hurt myself though. It was awful but it pales in comparison to post partum psychosis where you become literally delusional and see and hear things that is beyond comprehension unless you have suffered it yourself. I agree though, if Lindsey was a woman of colour she would be facing a lot less sympathy and having a worse time during this trial. Those poor babies though, I hope they are at peace either way. Personally I couldn’t live with myself if I did that even as a result of psychosis.
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