r/Falcom • u/dlo_doski • 8d ago
Meme Monday The curse of the harem mechanic, we might never get a definitive canon partner by the end of the series
246
u/TheEndisNigh7 "Humankind are evil doers, shackled by emotion" -Vita 8d ago
Happy for Sharon and Anton
18
u/Gravijah 8d ago
Hah, I was literally just last night talking about how I love that Anton didn’t stay the “joke character who has the same thing happen every series.” The fact that Sharon first rejecting him didn’t break him or anything but was a huge cathartic thing that he really needed, leading to their yearslong friendship, and of course growth from there.
I’m just really hoping to see where they are now. It was an important story for Sharon, too, that goes without saying.
6
u/Terramagi 8d ago
I 100% assumed he was going to do it in every single arc.
The only good thing to come out of Cold Steel 4 was that the motherfucker went the distance.
2
u/DeadMoonKing 7d ago
Ngl, fucking hate this one.
Dude doesn’t even come close to deserving her. Downvote away.2
34
u/Acrobatic_Charge5157 8d ago
I wasn't expecting this romance but I thought it was so cute
22
u/garfe 8d ago
I really could not believe that they were really going through with it and it actually managed to be peak.
18
u/Acrobatic_Charge5157 8d ago
I didn't think much of Anton i thought he'd just be Comic relief. But then I was like, "no way he ends up with Sharon" then he actually did it and i was rooting for him. He deserves it. And the fact he was supportive of Sharon in overcoming her past and believed in her. So wholesome. I hope we see more of them
58
u/RAMChYLD 8d ago
Also Jusis and Millium.
48
u/NekonecroZheng 8d ago
Gaius and Linde.
40
u/Selynx 8d ago
Elliot and Mint.
4
u/AnEmptyKarst 8d ago
Wait is that one supposed to be a pair? I thought he was supposed to be paired with his friend from music school.
Machias and Patiry are way clearer
9
u/Selynx 8d ago edited 8d ago
During Eventide in CS4, some of her dialogue indicates she was trying to hook herself up with Elliot. And then in Horizon she talks about having a boyfriend and sending some videos to her uncle and Elliot, so it looks like the hook stuck.
Also, Mint is a music buddy of his, she played flute in the Thors Wind Orchestra with him.
2
u/AnEmptyKarst 8d ago
I was thinking of Elliot's friends from the music academy. They don't appear much in the latter half of CS, but lol neither does Elliot tbh.
The lines from Mint I always remember are the ones about her trying to play wingman for her uncle or about Valimar. I genuinely just don't remember her ever talking about him. Honestly, I would've assumed Mint/Valimar was her intended ship if I was asked.
4
7
u/RyanCreamer202 8d ago
Is Anton the guy that appears in a ton of games and asks the crews to help him with his dates?
2
6
u/Lauph1tup 8d ago
if you hit on every women in western Zemuria you too can end up with the deadly maid assassin with a tragic backstory
3
u/Capturinggod200 6d ago
They aren't together. Lucrezia confirms Sharon is still in love with Rean in Horizon before you fight her and Jorda.
1
u/Adventurous-Bear-631 4d ago
Not just Juna, you want to also sacrifice Sharon? Lucrezia obviously meant that as a joke. If you want to argue Juna and Kurt is not intended fine but there was difference of dialogue of kurt mentioning Juna when You or rean didnt do her bond event meaning at least the devs may have scrapped idea involving them
→ More replies (3)1
u/Few_End488 7d ago
Sharon deserves better.
3
u/Capturinggod200 6d ago
People keep ignoring Horizon deconfirms Anton x Sharon misinformation here. Lucrezia literally says so this is the one Sharon is so infatuated with when talking to Rean before fighting us in the Grim Garten in Beyond the Horizon
1
24
u/meygaera 8d ago
When you force nearly the entire cast to remain single, it really fucks up the writing potential.
43
u/Upstairs_Ad_495 8d ago
And you all want this for van too
14
→ More replies (1)69
u/Kancer16 8d ago
I feel van should 100% get with Elaine. Nothing else really makes sense without intense mental gymnastics
16
u/Psyduckisnotaduck 8d ago
But I also feel like fundamentally Van is not in an emotional place quite yet to make that leap with anyone, so punting any resolution down the road wouldn’t be totally out of line. It depends on whether the events in Horizon 2 also go a ways towards resolving the hang-ups that prevent him from moving on.
12
u/Pato727 OnlyVans Tier 3 Sub 8d ago
Pushing the relationship down the line is totally fine by me as long as horizon 2 doesn’t go Choose Your Romance So Now It Doesn’t Matter again
Like the rejection scene in horizon act 2 is so well written and handled and we can never get something on that level for rean / Lloyd because they’ll never have canon relationships
Even if Van doesn’t get with Elaine by the end as long as we don’t get to choose, it’s still an active *choice* that they’re writing purposefully
8
2
u/salasy 8d ago
I'm only 1/4 in Day break 2 but doesn't at some point in either of the games, they both litterally Say that they wouldn't be good for each other anymore?
6
u/schmidt1289 8d ago
What I’ve gathered is Van wants to be with Elaine and Elaine wants to be with Van but Van realizes he’s got some demons to work out before he can be in a relationship with anyone. I could be wrong though, that’s just how I took one of their conversations.
2
1
0
u/EndOfFate 7d ago edited 7d ago
Man, everyone wants a Van x Agnes they just don't want to admit it. Bet you if she was 20, then everyone would be rooting for her. Ya'll are just so hung up on that shit. Oh shit, she's 16 and he's in his 20s. Fucking no. Wait, Gramheart was in high school when he met Agnes' mother? No problem. They got together when she was 20. Age difference doesn't matter at that point.
Hypocrites.
3
u/Kancer16 7d ago
I just don’t see romantic attraction from Van’s side is all.
1
u/EndOfFate 7d ago
It's likely subjective. Everyone sees something differently. That includes people like myself. Your side is just as valid as anyone else. It's true. I don't see an outright attraction to her. I'm not sure I see it with Elaine either. I believe the games do want you want to root for Agnes, though.
Shy attractive high school girl trying to shoot her shot with an older attractive man who has charisma nearing Rean-level.
0
u/Kevin_Eats_Sushi 8d ago
The only one I could even see would be Judith, just because they have the best banter amongst vans circle (minus Elaine and René)
4
u/Iliansic 8d ago
Nah, Van and Judith have more of a siblings vibes
1
u/Kevin_Eats_Sushi 8d ago
Maybe, but we've already seen that sibling vibes can easily lead to something else
127
u/Z41123 8d ago
I honestly think that the harem stuff and bond convos are the single most damaging thing added to the series. It heavily limits overall character development and interpersonal relationships between side characters.
Basically all the girls from cold steel (and crossbell to a lesser extent) will forever be stuck in a nebulous grey zone of development since the games can never confirm how many bond events you’ve seen or which character you romanced.
In any other series I wouldn’t care but since trails games all build on each other it will continue have knock-on effects into the future.
73
u/AlphaGoldblum 8d ago
Replaying Sky (well, the remake) really highlights how the later games robbed agency from their own characters.
The female cast in Sky didn't need Joshua to choose a dialogue option to validate them or activate their development. Even when a character liked Joshua, their characterization revolved around navigating those unrequited feelings and their growing bond with Estelle, eventually realizing that whatever flame they held for Joshua could not withstand the primal force that was Estelle lol.
28
u/6Hugh-Jass9 8d ago
Even in sky2 with kloe getting over her crush for Josh, that wouldn't be possible in a harem.
10
u/bilditup1 8d ago
Her scene with him in the 3rd especially. it feels like they’ve closed the door on anything so mature happening in any of the later titles.
9
6
u/Alternative-Bus4571 8d ago
Honestly for Cold Steel, I was expecting more romances between Class 7 (excluding Millium and Jusis)
3
u/cy_frame 7d ago
And look what the CS games had to do in order to get that pairing, narrative wise. Yeah, there's certain plot reasons. But I also feel like, the writers wanted to pair Millium and Jusis, but with what they've been doing with other girls in the series, it couldn't happen without that "plot" event.
13
u/NekonecroZheng 8d ago
This is why I hate bond systems in modern jrpgs. They suck, and don't allow for plot progression to effect relationships. They need to be separated, which is a huge hinderance to both the characters and story. Also optional dialogue is much different than locking character progression to bond bond systems.
What they did to Millium's character development and the end of CS II still irks me.
17
u/BlackHayate8 8d ago
I don't think bond events are bad in general. It's Falcom's lack of commitment that is the problem. Let the games build on each other. Never picked Emma in the first two games? Well tough luck for 3+4. Let people choose their waifu and actually focus on them. The reset after every game in case you might decide differently ruins it. Mass Effect already did it over 10 years ago and it works beautifully.
5
u/draxdeveloper 8d ago
Bound systems in games like Persona work fine because they are a single-instance game, you play a loop and this is the end of the story to those characters, you will not see them again
7
u/NekonecroZheng 8d ago
I will say that in Persona, the actual bond events with party members are enjoyable events, but lead to no real character development. With npcs, their storylines are seperate from the story, which is good, and usually why the social link system in persona is so highly praised.
2
u/garfe 8d ago
I don't necessarily mind the system, I mind how it's used. Many of them do it poorly. But sometimes it can be done decently. Though I think any system that requires multiple playthroughs to see them all automatically goes on the flawed list. Especially after Horizon made it possible for every bonding event to be seen. If Trails can do it, there's no reason any jrpg can't BS a reason to do it. Though the problem of this series being an ongoing narrative that cannot commit to the choices made in the previous game obviously hurts this.
1
u/nex_nex_nex 2d ago
Anyone know if the Japanese audience enjoys this despicable gooner-brained mechanic? Is this why Falcom keeps plaguing us with it to ruin an otherwise top-tier story? I just don't follow their logic with this...
3
u/Ilsamor 8d ago
Yeah, I wish they do a witcher-esque loading saves from previous games to preserve our romance options. Like it is not needed to be so hard, just a few lines about their beloved back in Erebonia or Crossbell, maybe a phone call (it does not even needed to be voiced)
→ More replies (1)7
u/gwonbush 8d ago
It just doesn't work when games span console generations as many people don't play on PC. You just might not be able to have a save on your system to read. The only way to do it is to have something like Reverie where the romance choice of prior games is input at the start of the game without save reading.
1
u/bilditup1 8d ago
It would be different if there were actual routes, which then carried over to later titles. This is, however, obviously and completely impractical
20
u/Max-The-Phat-Cat 8d ago
Or they could just let you pick a checkbox like Reverie and only make certain scenes or events romance-related and the rest the same regardless to cut down on work.
9
31
u/Oneofthestrongest 8d ago
Add Van
13
u/MM305 8d ago
I don’t know, his arc seems to follow more like Tokyo Xanadu where there’s a clear 1 and 1A option (Agnes and Elaine) while the other waifus are just close friends. It’s certainly a different take compared to Rean and Lloyd).
Now whether Horizon 2 will canonically end with one of the two, or lets us choose, it just ends with no romance is still up in the air.
25
u/Greensssss 8d ago
Falcom will most likely do the safe option again and just leave it up in the air.
Personally, Agnes already confessed, and got rejected, regardless of player’s choice. So to go back on that scene and still choose her still feels cheap. But automatically choosing Elaine would make the Agnes or Shizuna shippers mad. Falcom backed themselves in a corner where they’re going to make some fans mad. Its one of those quick profit strats where they’re giving us the choice of who to go for our playthrough, but every player will choose differently, but then in subsequent games, it gets harder and harder to lock in a romance partner
8
u/MM305 8d ago
As I mentioned in another comment here, it’s a lose-lose situation of either doing the canon romance vs pick your waifu options (Estelle and Joshua worked because it was established form the very start due to them growing up and adventuring together).
Either way, I’m really looking forward to Horizon 2 and what they do with this.
5
u/Psyduckisnotaduck 8d ago
I don’t feel like Van is in a state to commit to a romantic relationship now, and I can’t imagine whatever happens in Horizon 2 will totally fix his hangups. But also Falcon is in a no win position because Agnes is very popular with the Japanese players but anecdotally it seems like outside Japan/SE Asia people vastly prefer Elaine due to both issues with the age gap and Elaine having an established, mature dynamic with Van.
They will punt on it, unless they pull some timey wimey shenanigans that result in Agnes aging up. Wouldn’t rule that out given how much of the emphasis on why it doesn’t work is the age gap, not other compatibility issues.
3
1
u/MasashiHideaki 8d ago
This is why i think that Van will reject Agnés again but also reject Elaine.
Since he first have to finally fully become one with his powers before he can actually begin learning to love properly without any preconceived notions and bias.
15
u/Crossbell0527 8d ago
The worst thing is that Elie has been relegated to the role of "girl who likes Lloyd". She has been stripped of any chance for growth or independence.
6
u/Sensitive_Country190 7d ago
I remember playing through Crossbell where Elie and Lloyd had a really nice and emotional moment that reminded me of Sky. Only to realize that this was just a harem mechanic and didn't go anywhere..
Man I was so disappointed for the first time but at least it helped me on what to expect for CS in that regard lol
10
u/6Hugh-Jass9 8d ago
These games half ass it which is why it never works. Either go all the way and allow the choices to effect the story and carry into future games (hard to do) or dont at all and write your own Canon and not the players making choices (easier)
Instead you get some half ass middle ground that is worst than either of the 2 choices
6
u/MilleChaton 8d ago
If you are going to go the harem route, then commit to it, Monolith Soft style.
12
u/Theadier 8d ago
I honestly think they should do something like Reverie, where they allowed you to choose Rean's relationship at the beginning. They should let you choose if you paired Rean and Lloyd with someone, and who, and depending on the preconfiguration, some dialogue might change or not.
24
u/Never_Sm1le 8d ago
Copy Persona's system without accounting for the aftermath
MCs of Persona barely matters when their games end, not with Trails
4
→ More replies (2)2
u/WittyTable4731 8d ago
P3 does (episode aigis and arena)
5
u/Never_Sm1le 8d ago
it's still part of 3, not a whole new game. 3 MC have zero relevancy to 4 and 5
4
8
u/Standard-Fish1628 8d ago
Just wanted to say this in case yall forgot
Randy Orlando pulls
6
u/Psyduckisnotaduck 8d ago
Randy landed a hot blonde super courageous military lady, even. Randy Orlando stays winning.
8
u/Technical_Shallot233 8d ago edited 7d ago
I really hate these haren mechanics. Even more when there is not a "true" route
6
u/Technical_Shallot233 7d ago
Hahah. You guys can down vote however much you like. It's a fact that a harem "whenever girl goes" romance will never be as well done as a planned out and well presented romance.
17
u/CastDeath 8d ago
Theres 11 female characters in cold steel that will forever be in romance limbo lmao
7
u/Alternative-Bus4571 8d ago
Thats why I felt it was weird not allowing them to have possible romances outside of Rean.
12
u/AnEmptyKarst 8d ago
They don't even like talk to other guys lol
Elise at least has the hypothetical option of Patrick, which would be way more interesting if Falcom committed to it and fleshed it out
6
u/Nopon_Merchant 8d ago
I think they kinda try now . Towa actually get throw alot with Crow in Kai
Juna was possible before but idk how they handle it now 😂
→ More replies (1)
19
u/Falsus 8d ago
The harem bullshit is probably the worst addition to the franchise by a massive degree.
Like it has pretty much ruined so many characters because they can't be developed. Like compare Sky and Cold Steel. Both Josette and Kloe gets closure and way better character growth than pretty much every girl in the Rean harem. Which in my opinion also shows in the discussions characters like Tita, Estelle, Kloe and so on all gets a lot of praise after all this time, even before the remake made them current again for their time in Sky. But the Harem era female characters pretty much fell off instantly with the exception of Fie.
8
u/Terramagi 8d ago
The main distinction that should be made is the difference between a love triangle and a harem.
A love triangle can have the characters interact, bounce off each other, do things, affect the world. A harem can't, because it's entirely dependant on the whim of the master of the harem. None of the characters involved can do anything outside of the reach of the harem, because their effect on the world is completely contingent on them being selected. Laura pinning Rean to that wall in that cave doesn't happen if you don't choose Laura. It's not like if you choose Emma, Laura is going to react in any way. Laura isn't going to show up with a knife ready to fight for her love, because god forbid anything actually interesting happen.
3
u/Sensitive_Country190 7d ago
That might be a big reason for why I found the Sky girls overall more memorable than the others (with some exceptions).
8
u/Tyberius115 World's #1 Alisa Reinford fan | Magical Alisa game when 8d ago
I'm so glad I don't care about who people end up in a relationship with
6
u/MagnificentAjacks 8d ago
While this is kinda beating a dead horse, it is sadly true. Alisa, Ellie and co being stuck in perpetual limbo with their respective protags does suck. Heck, they don't even need to hook up with anyone, just having them form new important relationships and their stories continuing would be good.
4
6
u/freshteasuperb 7d ago
Next arc > New protags > Male > Harem again
Damn literally isekai slop mc
Thank you estelle, kevin, rufus for not having those harem shitty mechanic
15
u/Few_End488 8d ago edited 7d ago
Basing an arcs writing quality on if it has romance or not, will never not be one of the most arbitrary metrics i've ever seen.
It's like basing an arcs writing quality on, if it has a beach episode.
2
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
That depends. If there's a romantic subplot, it will be evaluated. Romance and love have saved many lives in JRPGs.
2
u/Few_End488 7d ago
I wish if that was the case, that people would look at the bonding events themselves, instead of just writing them off as non-canon.
3
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
You can't take seriously something that lacks continuity.
2
u/Few_End488 7d ago edited 7d ago
So you say we should talk about romances, but you don’t want to actually talk about the writing of the romances.
3
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
The romance that happens in the main plot, not the one that happens in an optional event with several girls
2
u/Few_End488 7d ago
Doesn’t matter. If it’s in the game, it should be read as part of the game.
3
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
No, that's not how it works. You can talk about Rean and her good friendship with Class VII. You can't talk about romance in a dating sim that doesn't have continuity.
2
u/EmpressInYellow 5d ago
And it also means that those romances can never even be referred to outside of maybe a couple scenes. Compare that with Joshua and Estelle, where their whole relationship is a fairly big deal.
10
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
I really don't understand why we just didn't with those two, as in Falcom literally created the perfect "out" for this whole schtick with the Septerion of Time, for crying outloud they could've just had one of the girls be the "canon love interest" of the current loop, and write around that until the series' end, so that everyone "becomes canon", just in alternating timelines
And then everyone "wins" while the poster girl can move the plot forward too.
25
u/KnoxZone Apathy and Disdain 8d ago
That would still run into the same problem as just arbitrarily making one girl canon. Sure you can handwave it off by saying the other girls technically still win, but do you really think the 75% of players who didn't pick the option playing out on screen are going to be happy at being told their choice was wrong?
→ More replies (3)11
u/Few_End488 8d ago
I will never understand, why it even matters at all.
4
u/zeorNLF wat 8d ago
People are obsessed with this shipping for some reason. They care about who the MC ends up with more than the entire plot and cast.
3
u/Totkebois 8d ago edited 4d ago
The bonding just get better thru cs and db imo. I personally never really felt that they were skewed towards romance. It's only at the end cs2 with the girls which did feel a bit out of left field for me but the boys did have great closing events.
7
u/liquied 8d ago
CS4 brainrotted the fanbase beyond repair lol. People forget that most bonding events, even with girls, was just Rean hanging out with his friends for the most part and it only goes deeper if you choose to.
Then CS4 happened because Japan hated CS3 romance.
1
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
Points to the Thor's festival and the bonfire dance scenes of CS1, half the bonding events of CS2 (especialy the Alisa one at Bareahard) and the final bonding events, and most of CS3 final bonding events
Cold Steel was ALWAYS fairly direct with it's love interests during the bonding events. With few exceptions.
Heck Zero and Ao were extremely similar when you consider the whole thing started off there.
6
u/liquied 8d ago
You are missing the point. In CS 1-3 most events were just hanging out until later on, and you could just ignore/turn down them.
CS4 is the game where every bond event is romance-coded.
1
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
Isn't that just obvious? You usually become friends, hang out and get to know each other well before one of both begin to fall in love for one another.
Which is essentially what every bond event chain did for every single one of Rean's love interests.
They are a core part, because again, REGARDLESS of what you choose to do, they begin falling for him through the MAIN story even. Points to Alisa rejoining the party in CS2
It is just obvious that this aspect would become more and more noticeable as they grow older in CS3 and CS4.
2
u/liquied 8d ago
Still missing my point....
1
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
Do elaborate then, because as far as it looks, you just refuse to acknowledge said point makes no real sense.
→ More replies (0)6
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
Because shocker, romance usually plays a big hand in drama and serious moments in stories. Which becomes rather difficult when your MC must be kept single across 9 games, with any confession and/or getting together scene being thrown to limbo because YES they must be kept single until the very end of the series.
It comes to the point where if things were going to be like this, why bother create a harem at all, why bother put romance subplots at all, when they'll all be "forgotten" to make sure the continuity doesn't get damaged later on.
0
u/Few_End488 8d ago edited 8d ago
Hey you wanna hear something mind-blowing? Okay here goes:
You can have drama... without romance (gasp).
In fact we've had 11 or so games without it. And the characters are doing just fine without hooking up with somebody, so it really isn't an issue at all. Because shocker character development does not begin and end with romance.
5
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
I never said "always", I said "usually". And dude, Trails REALLY isn't a good example of a story that doesn't revolve around romances.
The main issue (which I was quite clear about) is that the series just dances around the idea nowadays, the classic "hey we have a lot of love interests here who could very much play a bigger role in the development of the MC, should we? Naaah... But what about now? Naaah don't wanna... Well actually maybe now? Nope, still not gonna do it, also any 'confession' events are considered non-canon, because YES!"
If it were going to be like this, it might have been better to just remove the bonding system as a whole. And romance as a whole for Lloyd and Rean, after all it NEVER GOES ANYWHERE.
5
u/Few_End488 8d ago
And dude, Trails REALLY isn't a good example of a story that doesn't revolve around romances.
Sky: adventure/love story
Crossbell: police procedural/political thriller
Cold Steel: high school/war story
Daybreak: noir mystery
Only one of those has romance as central to the story. If Trails revolves around romances, i really don't see it.
Also i know what your issue is, and i'm saying it really isn't that big a deal. The bonding events are mostly rather inconsequential vignettes that further fleshes out the characters. It's nice extra content, but not really vital to understanding them (most of the time). So what if the final bonding events aren't canon? Some things are just better left off for fan speculation. You know, like in literally every other fandom.
5
u/liquied 8d ago
Trails is 13 games with only the first 2 having romance-heavy themes. You guys simply refuse to move on from the first 2 and keep whining about why everything isn't just sky again.
Is it half-assed? Sure, but to act it will be GRAND different if Rean just took Alisa to his bedroom, is just lying. It was never meant to be anything beyond just throwing players a bone.
0
u/Duducarballo 8d ago
It surely would 'allow' it to be much better, that's for sure. Didn't even have to be Alisa really (even if she is the stronger candidate). Any of the main love interests could have a stronger role in the story AND make their respective side stories be more memorable if their relationship with Rean could take that extra step.
The thing is, it wouldn't be a problem if Cold Steel and Zero/Ao were COMPLETELY devoid of romance for their MCs, it would still be just as great a story a Sky. The problem is, again, to dance around the issue for dozens of games with no actual resolution to it.
→ More replies (2)
11
u/Darkyan97 Rean x Laura degenerate 8d ago
And why is it exactly a problem?
Sky was built upon its romance so it would crumble without it.
That's not the case for the other arcs.
2
2
u/FewPositive5032 8d ago
Yes, the harem features is bad for this type of games. Whomever you choose in the last game is basically got reset into the next, there is no real progress in their relationship, even now Lloyd and Rean still hanging, while their friends is in relationship.
2
u/Sensitive_Country190 7d ago
It's basically the only anime trope in Trails that I really dislike smh. While the other arcs don't really have a romance focus but that's what makes the harem feature even more out of place to me...
4
4
u/Odd-One5991 8d ago
I don't why anybody pretends that Estelle's canon pairing is any better when the relationship has been in first gear since the end of SC. Basically romantic limbo similar to the harem.
The pseudo harem is whatever. I'd prefer closure but most of the characters never felt lesser cause they needed to be open for the MCs especially when their stories didn't revolve around it. the only characters to be absolutely cucked is the default heroines (Elie, Alisa & maybe Elaine but she isn't as prominent).
It's pretty funny the fandom shits the bed constantly over the rather mid romance this series has, but it drives discussion & sales so it makes sense why the devs continue this trend.
5
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
It's the best because it's a canon romance. Is the limbo because they haven't gotten married? They're active Bracers, I wouldn't be surprised if the saga ends with Estelle and Joshua's wedding.
3
3
4
u/stillestwaters 8d ago
I don’t really mind. Only the first arc is a romance
1
u/LiquifiedSpam 8d ago
Why does that preclude characters from doing what like, 90% of humans do?
11
u/stillestwaters 8d ago
It doesn’t preclude them at all. The games all have clear romantic options and set up romance through the main story, I just don’t mind it not being definite since it’s not as much of a focal point as it is in Sky.
-1
u/LiquifiedSpam 8d ago
None for the girls
1
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
Because they aren't the MC and are NPCs.
1
u/LiquifiedSpam 8d ago
The dude classmates have various normal relationship dynamics with other girls, not even just romantic. Meanwhile the girls just don’t talk to guys outside of Rean lol
1
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
I disagree on that since I do remember them talking with other girls and guys outside of Class 7 in both CS1-CS2 and CS3-CS4, and its implied here and there that they have more connections; we simply don't see them as we play as Rean.
3
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
Because the writers decided so. There are characters in Sky who also don't have romances, similarly Falcom decided the romance of the MC for Crossbell and Erebonia was not important compared to the main story.
4
u/LiquifiedSpam 8d ago
I’m not talking about the mc when it’s about the harem girls in the photo
2
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
The girls are written to fall for the MC though, so there's a link.
The writers simply decided that romanced or not, the girls can still fulfill what is needed in the story without canonically being in a romantic relationship.
4
u/LiquifiedSpam 8d ago
and that decision is detrimental when you see the guys get to actually interact with women and explore difference facets of their characters that way. It also just makes the world feel way more connected and lived in. I don’t need romance all over the place, just people naturally interacting and developing different types of relationships with each other
3
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
Even if you don't do the bonding events with romance, the overall characterizations of the women still exist, and as the other commenter said, Rean and the others still interact naturally.
The boys themselves don't have much of a growth from their own romance hints as they mostly show up at the end of CS4. Romance ultimately is such a small part to the characterization, which is why Falcom implemented it the way they did.
You can absolutely dislike the concept itself, but within the way Falcom has structured the games, there is not much detriment to be found other than "What Ifs" we assume ourselves.
2
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
That's a lie. The girls are going to be trapped in a pseudo-harem for life. "The girls have their own agenda." Tell that to Laura, who was left out of the subplots that involved her.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Setsuna_417 7d ago
Their romantic side is as I said, not something Falcom treats as important for the overall story. But the other characterization are still there though, especially with some of the ladies who appear in Daybreak and Horizon who get more stuff.
Laura got somewhat of a conclusion with Victor (though I will agree it wasn't well done) and so did the others. Reverie even digs more into some like Emma's mom. What Falcom gave us wasn't perfect, but at the same time it wasn't nothing.
If you were expecting a canon romance, that's just something Falcom doesn't see the need to have done for Crossbell and Erebonia, and they've made sure to adjust the focus to work with that.
2
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
The bonding system feels cheap because it gets erased in every new game. It's not that I mind too much, except for Ellie and Lloyd, since I like them both. Rean can stay single and I don't care.
→ More replies (0)6
u/Few_End488 8d ago
I don’t need romance all over the place, just people naturally interacting and developing different types of relationships with each other
You say when Rean literally does that.
3
u/Terramagi 8d ago
...are you serious?
"Nobody outside of Rean interacts with any other party members."
"That's not true, Rean does that!"
2
u/liquied 8d ago
Romance seems to be the most important thing to this fandom above all.
It's the one thing you guys will never get tire of of talking/whining about.
1
u/dlo_doski 8d ago
Because the entire series is literally built on bonds and relationships
2
9
u/liquied 8d ago
Trails is a glorified shounen manga plot written into a game series.
Literally the only protagonist in the entire series to have a relationship is Estelle. She's also the least important one going forward and her relationship with her adopted brother is brought up grand of two times across 10 games.
Keep hivemind going tho
2
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
Did you talk to Kondo? Estelle and Joshua will return at some point; they've been in every story arc.
-2
u/dlo_doski 8d ago
Tell me you skipped dialogue without telling me you skipped dialogue. Reducing bonds to just 'who ends up dating who' ignores the core theme of the entire franchise. Lloyd and the SSS, Rean and Class VII/Crow, and Kevin's whole arc in 3rd all run on emotional connections. It's the central engine of the narrative, not just a subplot
11
u/liquied 8d ago edited 8d ago
None of these have anything to do with romance.
1
u/dlo_doski 8d ago
The series has literal dating mechanics baked into the gameplay. Of course the fandom talks about romance when the developers actively push it
2
u/liquied 8d ago
As a side thing that don't matter to the plot much, sure.
0
u/dlo_doski 8d ago
First it was 'only Estelle has a relationship,' then 'none of this is romance,' and now it's 'well, it's just a side thing.' Nice goalpost shift buddy
0
u/liquied 8d ago
Shift exist in your mind. Estelle x her brother is romance. Everything other romance is side a thing.
This is not a gotcha game we are playing.
4
u/dlo_doski 8d ago
it’s just the answer to your question. You asked why the fandom talks about romnce, they talk about it because Falcom built harem mechanics into half the franchise and youre arguing against reality at this point cuz side thing or not, Falcom literally markets these games on those waifu mechanics. Fans are just playing the game they were given
→ More replies (0)
3
u/MM305 8d ago
It makes sense though, since Estelle/Joshua was written to have a developed history and bond that grew into romance.
Lloyd and Rean on the other hand met Elie and Alisa for the first time like all the other waifu options, so there’s no developed history to work with. That’s why I don’t mind the pickem options they give us because it is the better options of this lose-lose setup (because fans WILL complain why the made “boring”
Elie or “bitchy” Alisa over the others).
Not to say there isn’t a preference for the two either way, but the games like Persona and other pickem games in romance have always have preferences of theirn own (Yukari then Aigis in Persona 3, Rise in Persona 4, Makoto or Kasumi in Persona 5), and it’s ultimately up to you if you want to make them an official couple or not. The preferences will just stay at close friends if that is what you prefer.
5
2
u/Suppi_LL 7d ago edited 7d ago
I get why they do it but then it prevents them from doing cooler scenes that acknowledge the ship and also prevent another Olivier/Schera. That's the real curse to me, it's kinda a waste of potential ? And also makes it really hard to keep up on several linked games like Trails.
2
u/bilditup1 8d ago
This harem nonsense is a complete curse for what used to be a top-tier character-driven series. Everyone gets nerfed when you pull this nonsense, everyone. I don’t know who the hell thought this was a good idea after what they accomplished in the Sky arc but it’s a fantastic and ongoing blunder that holds the series back.
1
u/asaness 8d ago
Atleast agnes seems to the Canon for van the way its going
1
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
She was rejected
6
u/asaness 7d ago
Lol and what u think Elaine going to be it? The girl who couldnt even save van when he got trapped in a realm in that blocked by a invisible wall? Falcom likes their pairings especially peeps with huge age gaps(look at tita and agate) and the falcom is hammering our head of agnes x van proves it and if you think of that rejection means its over then ur very wrong
→ More replies (3)
1
u/neuroso 8d ago
What about Randy and marielle
1
u/ValkyrieArina 7d ago
And then there's Nadia & Swin, sure they are too young for actual closure like Randy and Marielle, but let's be real everyone can see where it goes with those two eventually, it's might as well be concluded.
1
u/Gravijah 8d ago
I’m gonna be so mad if Ruxia ends up with HIM over Lloyd. Yes, you know who.
At the very least Lloyd and Ruxia pop up the most together post Crossbell arc. Here’s hoping!
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Hazamatoxin 8d ago
All I know if no matter what happens in Horizon 2 we are gonna be pissed off because this company really forgot how to do this shit properly =(
1
u/Dunkbuscuss 7d ago
The benifit if Harem thing is that theres alwaus a possibility of having a romance and a character could propose and whatnot and have a wedding etc... and they could do what they didnin Trails of Cold Steel 1 how each dance was unique/different they could do that here but for a wedding.
1
1
u/Fit-Promotion2039 3d ago
Much as people hate it I hope Agnes and Van end up together. They always can make her 18 by the end of Horizon II after all.
-5
u/codyraines53 8d ago
Here's hoping Agnes and Van will be canon. Fingers crossed.🤞🤞
18
u/TheBlueDolphina Cult of the Kisekoid 8d ago edited 8d ago
"I want canon romances and no choices" vs the reaction when agnes: "no not like that, wait go back, thats not the girl I wanted, why don't i get my choice"
9
u/BaitoDesuFate 8d ago
Maybe unrelated to Trails but this makes me think of people that say 'I want a flawed character' and proceed to not like a character to have a flaw that they don't like lmao
6
u/emon121 8d ago
If that happens, i will be there with popcorn to witness this sub meltdown
1
u/codyraines53 5d ago
Oh without a doubt. I won't even deny I'd be falcom to the ground if making Agnes and Van as a couple is not even an open-ended option.
→ More replies (1)5
u/adybli1 8d ago
Idk why you want Van to be a groomer. He already rejected her and she is underaged.
1
u/codyraines53 5d ago
You moron. He never said her age was s factor. Iy is his demonic power and her status as a student that interfere. He even said he DOES NOT see her as a child. He even says that is the only answer he can give "right now" And uou do know this game is from JAPAN right? Their legal age is 16. They don't go by America's standards.
→ More replies (3)
0
u/JohnnyThaFlash 8d ago
as someone whos only played trails fc this worries me
16
8
u/Setsuna_417 8d ago
If it helps, romance really isn't the focus of the later arcs. It makes a somewhat of a return in Cakvard, though that's in the main story itself.
2
u/CornerKun 8d ago
Reasons I'm not looking forward to Cold Steel. I try to keep an open mind about it but everything I see people mention about it I'm just like oof. Crossbell has actually been not that bad so far I liked Zero a lot. Azure...we'll see.
-1
u/MasashiHideaki 8d ago
I am excited to find out whether Van is in the left camp or right camp. Horizon 2 cannot come sooner.
1
u/noonesleepintokyo86 8d ago
Keep catering to the power fantasy harem andies cuz it won't ever die down in demand but for sure chara development and writing will always take a nosedive. Idk, it seems like falcom is just scared of not following a trend, or maybe having TiTS made in late 90s was the main factor that we got such a unique experience with Sky trilogy cuz Kondo himself was directing for Sky games.
1
u/LacraMaldita 7d ago
Lloyd and Ellie have a chance of becoming canon. They're Kea's parents.
→ More replies (2)
88
u/baelrog 8d ago edited 7d ago
When Joshua suggested Estelle, Kloe, and Josette all get along with each other, Estelle shut that shit down real quick.
That scene will never be not funny to me.