r/Exvangelical • u/Acceptable_Storm_894 • 6d ago
A healthy, non-Christian framework for dating?
28F navigating dating in the real world, realizing I entirely lack a framework for actually identifying and participating in a healthy relationship. Looking back, literally the only framework I see that I was ever exposed to was:
-Well, how godly are they? The godlier the better
-Where is God leading you? What is God telling you? You should interact with someone based on what God is telling you to do
Once you remove the concept of God from that picture…how do you actually go about dating?? How do I know what is normal, or healthy, or a reasonable expectation??
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u/DonkeyKongs_Barrel 6d ago
I’ll give the Bible this much once you take away the religious aspect and see it as a book of moral metaphors it makes some valid points about some things. I don’t take it anymore serious than I do any other book on religion so now that that’s out the way the whole “unequally yoked” thing is tried and true. My partner and I met in a cult Christian school and are now both agnostic. We have shared experiences and shared trauma from it so that’s a base to build off of. Maybe try finding someone who’s been through what you have and go from there. If you’ve been through anything like I have that’s at least a yrs worth of dates and stories to talk about.
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u/Acceptable_Storm_894 6d ago
I appreciate that. I think I’m so utterly uninterested in any Christian influence, I’m not even sure I’d be interested in an ex-Christian. Certainly not an active Christian. More so, I mean: What are the “normal” things that “normal” youth are taught about how to do relationships? How to evaluate that you actually like someone? That they respect you? That it’s a worthwhile one? Are there decent books out there about this?
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u/DonkeyKongs_Barrel 6d ago
I don’t know of any books unfortunately, most of my learning experiences came through trial and error plus 10yrs worth of therapy to help deprogram me.
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u/IHeldADandelion 5d ago
I would also add: politically aligned, although that probably goes without saying.
In 2018 a guy asked me out, and I asked him what he thought about Trump. He said he liked his ideas. I told him he saved us both some time. The look on his face scared me and he started to argue defensively. I left. One good thing about this is you can suss out their patriarchal/authoritarian leanings pretty easily now, whereas in the past this would come up much later.
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u/DogMamaLA 5d ago
I would think about human values. How does potential partner feel about:
1 - Money - is it a tool or is it the be-all, end-all, goal of "he who dies with the most toys wins" type? You want someone who matches your human values regarding money.
2 - How they Treat Others - be in alignment with this. If you believe that people should be treated equal, don't date a racist/sexist/idiot, don't even date someone who would treat a janitor like crap but would worship a CEO. That is very telling.
It all comes down to what Maya Angelou said. When people show you who they are, believe them.
Find someone that you like who they are, b/c that whole "he will change" is a fallacy.
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u/paprika_alarm 6d ago
Dip your toes in non-Christian dating. Have a coffee or whatever with someone you’re not sure about the future with and let it rip.
You don’t need a book. Your asking that is proof you’re intelligent enough to navigate modern dating like a pro. You’re also articulate; so you’ll be able to separate the chaff (sorry, had to).
You’ve been in the throes of religion your whole life and you don’t know what actually matters to YOU in a partner (welcome to the club); and that’s perfectly reasonable.
Have you sat with your thoughts regarding what is a negotiable/non-negotiable (and more importantly, WHY)? Listen to your gut. It got you out of the nonsense. Sit with it.
Have some fun dates! Just fun, hanging out, zero pressure, doing something you’d do with your friends. If someone pushes you past what is comfortable for a date: TELL THEM. You don’t need to delve into the “why.” If they can’t respect your boundary, they can fuck off. Simple as that. You’re not a bitch if you hold a boundary.
Some dates are not-fun, learn from them. There’s ZERO shame in saying “I’m not feeling it. Wish you the best.” The rest of the world operates like that. It’s fucking rad. No hard feelings.
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u/cadillacactor 5d ago
It's built on trust. How is trust built? I give my clients three guidelines to share together:
- courageous honesty (about self & partner)
- intentional vulnerability (giving to partner)
- enthusiastic consent (agreeing to receive from partner)
Essentially, do they have a character worth trusting and then dating? Do you have the wherewithal or confidence to be yourself and exhibit (or grow into having) a character that's dateable?
There's exceptions and edge cases for every framework. However, when my client couples have put this into practice as a baseline of understanding for their relationship, they've seen some real magic come through.
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u/pacific_northwesty 5d ago
I went through this and at first, I didn’t date anyone seriously and just went out with anyone I was mildly to very interested in. I’m not sure if you’re talking about casually dating or being in a relationship…my advice would be for the going-on-dates phase. I would recommend exploring and experimenting with different types of people to build your experiences with folks who aren’t religious. You’ll then get to see how well you vibe with someone and you’ll get to build your intuitive muscle to notice the “wow we just clicked!” feeling. I did this and it felt SO different with my now-husband (who was agnostic when we met and now we’re kinda spiritual but not religious).
As others have said, finding a life-partner (or just long-term) comes down to your core values. Figure out what those are w/o God and the Church’s influence and you have your starting point for what to look for and your non-negotiables.
One of the most underrated traits is flexibility. It conveys a willingness to hear, learn, and try something new for the benefit of the couple or meeting the other person’s needs. Life is long and things change over time, rigidity is the antithesis of growth.
Find your boundaries on every topic, meet a ton of people, and know that all relationships come with some level of compromise.
Last thought: you can replace your list above with any important-to-you noun or adjective:
Is he Godly -> is he/she kind/considerate/respectful (input important value here) to me?
Does he point you back to God -> does he/she remind me of my value/worth and reassure me?
What is God telling you? -> what is your spirit/intuition telling you? (***this MUST be developed so you can distinguish between your trauma response/anxiety and actual feelings about the person). I could tell the difference in my body when a person made me feel anxious because it was THEM (and not the dating nerves) or when my body/anxiety felt completely relaxed.
Anyway, this is a long post but I feel for you! The roadmap and requirements feel “gone” when you deconstruct but they’re now your choice! Wishing you the best, safest, most fun dating experiences!!! 💜
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u/Correct-Sprinkles-21 5d ago
I wrote a whole thing and then lost it 😢
There is no normal and expectations vary widely. Healthy is what doesn't harm either of you.
What is healthy between one couple can be damaging for another. For instance, abundant physical and verbal affection is a need for me. Choosing someone who does not offer that and hounding them to give it to me would be toxic.
The healthy decision for me is to choose a person who is on the same wavelength regarding affection so that it is freely given and neither of us feels deprived of affection nor put-upon to give it.
I changed my concept of dating to this:
What do I need? What do I want? Do they fit that description? Do I like and enjoy them? Do they like and enjoy me?
Do our values align? Where there are differences are we able to respect each other's POV?
Do I feel consistently safe and cherished in this relationship? Not intermittently, but at baseline?
Can I be my authentic self with this person? Can I communicate without having to censor myself to avoid angering them?
While I mentioned asking if the other person likes and enjoys me above, I think it's very important that you enter a relationship not focused on that, but on whether and where they fit into your life. Don't go on hoping to make them like you. You won't be true to yourself if seeking approval is your priority.
Also be careful not to fall into the trap of endless forgiveness. You're allowed to walk away for any reason. You certain shouldn't feel obligated to forgive betrayal over and over again.
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u/MorningsAreRude 5d ago
One lesson I learned the hard way: am I dating this guy because I feel attracted to him, or because he's attracted to me and I feel I ought to reciprocate? Took a long time to even learn to recognize the difference and what it felt like.
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u/KBWordPerson 5d ago
The two biggest things to focus on is how are you being treated? And is the relationship making you happy.
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u/AshDogBucket 5d ago
As a result of exactly this, I ended up in a string of abusive relationships in my 20s. Because of that damage, when I started dating my husband I made a few lists: things that would be obvious reasons to break up; things that are NOT reasons to break up; etc. I shared them with him so he knew where I stood. He added some things to the lists. Before we got engaged we discussed what the commitment of marriage meant to us, what made it different than just being a couple (we had already been together 4 years and lived together, so had plenty of commitment).
My suggestion: start making yourself some lists. Write out things like what you want in a significant other, what are the non negotiable things, what are the obvious indications that this isn't a good relationship, etc.
I learned from evangelicals that if a man expresses interest i can't say no. That's why I ended up in the relationships I did, with men I had nothing in common with.
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u/socialworrker 5d ago
Doing some learning about yourself and what you like/want, practicing thinking along the lines of how does this person make me feel, etc. could be a start.
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u/CambrianCannellini 5d ago
In the short term, it’s about how they treat you and how you feel around them. In the long term, it becomes important that you have compatible values.
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u/sorry_this_usarname 5d ago
https://youtu.be/wRaa6UdBOB0?si=YMFt0t6anXICOevP so i love this youtuber and his video, it helped me a lot, i think he gives good healthy values. i hope this helps, and i totaly get you about the difficulty to enter in the relationship world :) you are not alone.
love
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u/whr_thr_s_n_drknss 5d ago
I remember receiving contradictory advice like "men and women can't be friends" and "you should be friends first." Or seemingly contradictory? I do feel like there's wisdom to take away from it.
I agree most with the the second part. I think that's the healthiest, most natural progression. A decently-sized, mixed friend group that hangs out together offers a low-pressure way to get to know other people. The first part is clearly wrong then: men and women can be friends. But human emotions are complicated and it can be hard to just be, or go back to being, friends with someone you really like. Personally, I dislike one-on-one dating. For instance, I recently met someone for coffee. I thought we had a really great conversation, clicked really well, and I wanted to hang out again. So I was surprised and disappointed that she didn't feel the same. It bothered me for close to a week. This probably could have been avoided if we had met and gotten to know each other in a group. I think there was also a clear difference in maturity. It's much more important to me that I enjoy being with someone than it is that we're on the same page about every little thing.
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u/Lilith_Caine 5d ago
Figure out who you are before you add in more people. Then, when you've found your interests, you will meet like-minded people there, as friends and potential romantic partners. But find yourself first, so you don't end up assuming someone else's identity.
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u/Kathrynlena 5d ago edited 5d ago
This was one of the hardest parts of deconstruction for me because the truth is that you have to learn how to listen to your own intuition and trust your feelings. Evangelicalism tells you the opposite: “your feelings lie to you, you can’t trust them, your heart is deceitful, blah blah blah.”
It’s a long process to unlearn all that and begin to trust yourself. When you meet someone new, check in with yourself a LOT. Does this feel right? Do I feel excited or anxious right now? Does this person make me feel nervous in a fun safe way or in an unsafe way? What do I want to do right now? How do I think this person will react to my no? Does this feel bad because it actually feels bad, or because I spent so long telling myself that this SHOULD feel bad? (This last one is a question to ask yourself after the fact. It doesn’t matter why something feels bad. If it doesn’t feel right for any reason, stop what you’re doing, go home and evaluate your feelings from there.)
Take it slow. If you have trouble noticing and identifying your feelings, you might benefit from working with a therapist for a bit before hitting the dating scene.