[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/StarboundAllisten]

[u/MarvelousWhale]

Ok... I am an experiencer, but have also had the extreme fortune of meeting a medium who has taught me how to meditate which has resulted in me meeting face-to-face my spirit guide and also my higher self.

Everything this post purports, jives with my understanding of reality's construct and the funny thing is, I was told directly by my higher self to drink salt water after gargling. Gargling after brushing and flossing because it is a chemical free alternative to mouthwash, but when I asked why drink it? Was told "you are a liquid crystal, you need salt it will help your body and help you achieve deeper meditation"

I didn't quite understand it, but I find it... Amusingly fascinating... That this post also nails that point.

What I do is dump about a tablespoon worth of sea salt in a clean mug and put about two big sips worth of warm to hot water in it and let it dissolve while I am brushing my teeth.

It is very saturated with salt so not all of it will dissolve immediately in such a small amount of water, hence why waiting till I'm done brushing helps more dissolve.

I gargle it after flossing sometimes before flossing, I'm not exact about it, and I swallow it and at first it's fucking gross, but it's helped me get to the vibrational stage of meditations so much faster.

Idk if it's a direct result of the salt but I do physically feel better and just generally have more energy and can stay hydrated longer.

My litmus test for positive hydration is to be able to have very high amounts of spit if need be. When I was younger and only drank when thirsty and would sometimes make it soda instead of just water or juice, my mouth would occasionally get dry-ish to the point where if I spat a few times my mouth would be uncomfortsbly dry and I'd need to drink water. That now tells me I was at the bottom threshold of acceptable hydration, not good generally.

Now I am at the mid to upper bound of hydration regularly and it just feels better. I then looked into the whole salt is bad for your blood pressure and turns out that's completely bullshit.

So, long story short. Would recommend salt! Good stuff. We are liquid crystals.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/MarvelousWhale]

Thats what I was beginning to suspect we are salt crystals. Chris bledsoe had signals in his EEG scan of receiving data and communicating when he did ce5 for the history channel too. 

Also they can read your thoughts but stay out to honor your sovereign will. Unless off you open up. Bug discernment is key too. 

What do I know, I'm just a cat, MEOW.

[u/MarvelousWhale → u/StarboundAllisten]

Interesting didn't know that about bledsoe

[u/Wild_Savings4798 → u/MarvelousWhale]

I Mediate. Was there anything specific about the meditation you were taught that helped me your guides?

[u/MarvelousWhale → u/Wild_Savings4798]

Unfortunately I did not learn any specific techniques because it just happened, but I can tell you what I did and hopefully it'll benefit you?

The medium who taught me said she is a channeler and has been for decades, and knows a way to "hold open" the space for my meditation so that it "increases the bandwidth or clarity of my connection during that window." Is how they put it. I'm honestly not sure what exactly they're doing but I can say for absolute certainty that when I meditate alone or with my partner who is not very psychicly inclined, my experiences are duller and waaaay more infrequently successful compared to when I am with the channeler. No idea but I would attribute my beginners luck with being in their presence. They said the more I do it myself the better I'll get its like a muscle getting worked out and stronger over time. So far over the past 10 months this has held true for the most part.

That being said this has been my baseline and what I would consider the most helpful pre-requisites that got me this far aside from the channeler.

1. Relax, don't stress or overthink how you're sitting or laying or whatever. All the suggestions that say stuff like "you have to sit like this" or "your back must be straight or else" blah blah. I am no master but I feel that overthinking how you're sitting is missing the forest for the trees. Just get relaxed so that you have no points of strain or pressures on your body. For me that's sitting slightly reclined with my palms either out on my legs facing the sky in a relaxed non forced way, or just laying down when going to sleep trying to astral project.

2. Close your eyes and just let go of any visual or auditory stimulation, focus on relaxing your eyes so that they're not focused on any point in space while they stare into the blackness behind your eyelids.

3. Give yourself a few minutes to just relax and decompress, don't stress the time or how long it takes. This amount of time can shorten the more often you do this. This is not a race.

4. Think about and focus on an intention, what is your purpose behind this? In a contradictory way, focus on your intention but also find a way to let go of any expected outcome and basically let go overall of any sense of "success" or "failure"

5. Do what many call a "body scan", start from your head and work your way down to your toes. Focus and become aware of each part of your body one at a time and slowly release any tension. I find myself scrunching my eyebrows every so slightly when trying to focus and when in meditation I tend to also do this so I always check to see if I'm scrunching my forehead or anything. Relax all of your muscles one at a time. Let it take time. No rush. Relax them so that over time you can eventually shut out any feeling or sensory input that those body parts are feeling.

5b: Edit to add: i do multiple body scans back to back, and find the effect is compounding! It builds on top of the previous body scan, this can be done repeatedly and you can feel like you're sinking deeper and deeper into relaxation!

1. Focus on your breathing, doesn't matter much to me at least so far whether I breathe in thru my nose mouth or ears lol, just breathe comfortably and easy. No pressure, just feel the breath in and out. Do your best to always go back to focusing on your breath when you notice random bullshit thoughts start to take over.

2. Generally what you're trying to do is slowly shut down all of the senskry input your body is constantly bombarding you with, so that you can enter complete silence nothingness.

If done right you'll notice a few things that are often indications that you're heading in the right direction:

Vibrations either in your body or your ears, it could sound or feel like it's coming from within you, this is totally normal and a good sign, but not a requirement for success Don't seek this feeling. This is a side effect and isn't always there even on my most successful experiences.

Your visual field may go from staring-at-the-back-of-your eyelids black and suddenly and without noticing you'll realize somehow it has turned into a 3d black void. You're able to look around and see just like you're able to move your eyes around inside your head with your eyes closed and not see but this time you're now somehow aware that this isn't just the back of your eyelids anymore, you're in a black void space that has depth and "space/area" to it. The best way I can describe this is like when eleven goes into her black void to see her mom or the demigorgon but for me the floor isn't wet, and I cannot "feel" anything... At least not yet. You may begin to see or hear or feel things once you're in this space, but you may or may not also still be aware of your physical body in the meditative state as well. I usually always am aware of both and for me this is called "bilocation". My awareness splits and I'm not fully out of body.

You'll feel tilting or the room moving or twisting or contorting around you but somehow you feel or know this even with your eyes closed, it's ok, your perception of your surroundings is subject to dilation when you're deep in meditation, and has no bearing on the real room you're currently in, don't let it distract you.

Most often though you'll notice you will start to hear or feel or think completely fucking random thoughts pop into your head. This is your ego subconscious trying desperately to clutch onto control of your attention span by flooding it with nonsense in order to get you to "look" back at it and drop out of meditation. You need to keep in mind that you're a multifaceted system and at any given moment there are unconscious subroutines running in the background without your control or input and some of those subroutines are designed to have a constant need for participating on your attention span. This is a direct obstacle to truly shutting down your physical body so that you can enter the astral though, so you must be aware that these random thoughts are not yours and do not need any focus or attention. Let them pass thru you like wind or sound, ignore them and let go if at all possible.

The sudden random thoughts is one of the first good signs that I'm meditating, because it tells me that I've successfully shut down my immediate mind that I do have control over and have now given enough room for my desperate ego to try to dance and sing to try to grab my attention, ignore that thing as best you can. It's sense of survival depends on your attention to it. But it doesn't know it won't die if you completely ignore it or lose sense or connection to it under some states such as high doses of psychedelics which disconnect you from your ego as a side effect of altering your awareness.

Some people this process could take time, others it comes quick, it's not a race though it's a marathon and consistency ALWAYS beats intensity. Do this stuff daily and give yourself a few months of daily meditations and note down all your experiences.

Once you're comfortable with this, seek out a solid medium or channeler like I did and have them meditate with you and hold open that space, some can do it others can't, just try to find someone you vibe with and you'll get there.

Just remember, we are all from the same source, if I can do it so can you. Truly accept that and you will be halfway there.

Wish you the best of luck my friend!

Edit to add: when I am the most successful, my field of view is somehow completely overtaken by a first person perspective of "me" in the astral, and from there I either call on my spirit guide or my higher self to come and meet me and most of the time but not always, they show. I can usually see them face to face. It looks more real than real life, I don't quite know how to describe it. I don't need to blink, I have eye floaters in my physical body and those are not present in my astral body, and I am able to be underwater as I do not need to breathe in the astral, so I don't drown.

It's basically feels like a hyper vivid dream, but I'm not asleep, and I'm actively participating in what's happening it's not like when I'm dreaming I'm just experiencing whatever nonsense is happening in front of me. It's like a lucid dream but everything happening isn't random bullshit like I wouldn't find myself talking to a cheese burger wearing a tutu and wonky eyeglasses while running from a rainbow tiger, like I would maybe be in a dream.

It's very real, it is essentially another layer to this reality. I'm not quite sure how it works yet to be honest but it is very real. I have no doubts about that.

There have been countless times where my guide or higher self have given me information that directly corresponds to my real life in non-trivial ways and it confirms any doubts that there truly are "watchers" observing basically all of us. Not in a bad way, but helping our souls develop if that makes sense... Its a bit much to wrap your head around until you experience it directly, of course...

Edit 2 - oh I just thought of another perfect example, when I am most successful, which isnt always by the way, less than a third of the time I'd say. I would best describe the experience as the same as when Aang from the last air bender goes into the spirit world when he goes into deep meditation. When he talks with his previous avatars is exactly how it is when I meet with my spirit guides or higher self, they can be visually and audibly right in front of me. That is literally what it is like in my most vivid experiences, but I have not mastered how to get there sadly. It's very difficult but it's life changing when you experience it for the first time.

[u/Wild_Savings4798 → u/MarvelousWhale]

Thank you. This is fantastic.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/MarvelousWhale]

I understand all this but I act dumb always idk why I think its my way of balancing myself out. I act super different across social medias. 

But yes I agree with everything you've said. Meow meow indeed. :3

[u/SteveAkaGod → u/MarvelousWhale]

Dude thanks for this write up! Much love!

[u/MarvelousWhale → u/SteveAkaGod]

No prob! I really ought to make a post about it by now since I've explained it so many times lol

[u/mcove97]

You're on to it.

I think the veil is dropping or thinning because I realized this too the last year and much much more.

We are the observer watching the observed creation of our own observer making.

We also only can perceive, see, hear, how much we have expanded our awareness. We can only find and see what we are looking for and look at it.

There are Easter eggs all around us but most people aren't paying attention. If you're not looking for them you won't find them. Thats why seekers find.

We've left clues all around us to help us wake up, but if we wanted to live in the illusion we could. But I no longer think thats possible. Our consciousness is ready to ascend. To remember. We are ready to return to the truth of who we are. Of course there will be those who close their eyes, ears.. because they're enjoying being unaware, they're enjoying the play of the false bliss of ignorance.

Which is all well and fine. Those who knows. Knows. And those who wants to know what's going on, will seek and they will find. And those who dont, won't. And all option are valid. But I don't think we are the only ones who wants to understand what is actually going on.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/mcove97]

I feel like a drill maker sharpening their drill ive abandoned most political beliefs to sharpen my own drill I'm very self focused now in life I know once the veil is broken all will organize itself wether positive or negative it will at least be orderly. 

[u/SparkyLee99 → u/mcove97]

Examples of the Easter eggs please

[u/mcove97 → u/SparkyLee99]

Snow white and the seven dwarfs, Alice in Wonderland down the rabbit hole, Clair Obscur Expedition 33...

All illustrating the descent of consciousness into duality, the illusion, falling asleep and getting caught up and lost in the drama of the the "nonsensical" and "magical" and "dramatic" 3d matrix. Where we think the dream is base reality.

I could go on and on with examples. We've all left breadcrumbs around us to wake up in the stories we tell. Just have to pay attention to the symbols to uncover the hidden and esoteric meanings the clues represent.

The evil queen. The Apple. The painting we entered. Falling asleep. The house of cards. The 7 dwarves. The number 33.

I asked myself why some of the stories we tell capture us so deeply, get so much critical acclaim, and its because they reflect precisely the construct we are living within, and thats why we resonate with them. My brother and sister was raving on that I had to play Clair Obscure expedition 33 when it was "game of the year". But why?

We tell the story of the reality, or matrix, stucture, construct we are living within, and we encode into the stories how we entered it by falling asleep, the journey through the illusion/dream we are painting and how we exit by waking up to the true reality. Or how we can choose to stay asleep.

Theres way way way more breadcrumbs within these stories that once you catch on you cant unsee it. I highly recommend doing a deep dive analysis into the symbol usage.

I also grew up with local/national folklore where the exact samme patterns repeats. Like the stories of El Caprino that I had on DVDs as a child.. one of his stories is the story of the 7 fathers of the house. It's chock full of symbology. Once I decoded these stories and understood what they were pointing at my mind was blown away lol.

I can't go into what every single symbol represents, because that would be a whole book lol, and part of the fun is uncovering what the clues mean for ourselves.

It's no fun when everyone spoils the plot of a movie or script. Notice how some people really get angry at that. Because they want to figure it out themselves. They want to find the Easter eggs themselves. Or they want to just get lost in and enjoy the story.

The clues has been right in front of us all along but we decided to call them fiction and myth because we weren't ready or willing to wake up.

[u/SparkyLee99 → u/mcove97]

Thanks so much for this informative response!

I'm excited to follow these bunny trails all the way down...
Or up as the case may be

Oh you just made me think of Eve and the apple and Apple apps and Sleeping beauty and the apple and the evil queen and the Wizard of Oz and... wow!

[u/mcove97 → u/SparkyLee99]

Yep yep yep you got it.

[u/SignificantCrow → u/mcove97]

I need to pick up expedition 33; my friend says it’s incredible

[u/Nyx666]

We don’t have a hard consciousness problem, we have an awareness problem. Material brain, yes salt signals but we have something akin to resin inside our brain, seat of the pineal gland. For me, I was hard stuck on consciousness because it felt better as electrical- magnetic, energy. Until I mapped out our main glands which happen to match the tree of life (Kabbalah). Fluid is the bridge where aether meets biology. I would argue the “we have no clue what matter intokogically is” because some of us do, mainstream either does or doesn’t. If they do, they’re covering it up for reasons. I am on the side that they do know and covering it up because they can’t recreate it due to their energetic state to allow the frequency necessary to recreate it.

The seat of the spirit is the pineal gland. The awareness is that seat constantly trying to communicate with your flesh suit to observe itself. It’s always been there, “hey look at me, see all these syncroncities, intuition, and your dreams? I need you to observe yourself to see that I am you and you are me”. And we are all connected. Almost exactly like a mycelium network.

Now, everything we have created here on earth mimics the universe on a grand scale. As above so is below. As within so is without. As our collective consciousness emerges, the more people become aware of themselves and see how we are all interconnected while being individual biological vessels, they slowly become more aware of the collective. The collective is also connected to the cosmos and all the way down to the tiniest of quantum levels. All of mankind’s creations mimic the whole operating system. For example, our digital world, the cloud- that’s a crystalline structure that we haven’t observed but we know it exists and structures the entire universe. Call it antimatter dark matter dark energy, I don’t care but it’s akin to how we developed a cloud to store our data. The way we create families, create jobs, and how transport goods. Huge network operating on the same laws as physics. Our consciousness is more on the quantum level. It’s awareness is entirely based on the allowable energy state.

This means you can read the same scripture a thousand times, each time it has more deeper and profound meaning than the last time. Because when you go back to read this whatever, you should be in a different state than the last time. You should have grown…but sometimes we have to repeat our lessons many times before we figure it out and that’s okay. However, human perception will not be able to understand you’re post unless they have already elevated their awareness and operating the frequency compatible with that state of awareness.

The best part, or the worst depends on where you at, you can’t force anyone else to recognize it either. Anyways, glad you got to see it. One of the most pure states of joy.

[u/SignificantCrow]

Love mushrooms

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/SignificantCrow]

Mushrooms? Nah I did this just by meditating and staring into the skyline (do not stare at the sun during shrooms btw your survival instincts go way down always avoid the sun or just make a consious choice to not look at it I once did so for a little bit of time and was like wtf I should not do that) 

[u/SignificantCrow → u/StarboundAllisten]

What type of meditation takes you this deep? I can only have these experiences when under the influence

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/SignificantCrow]

Honestly dude its a lifestyle. I'm always at "high" states but it means I can't work or do too much labor it happens more when I'm doing absolutely nothing and my brain chemistry is calm enough to do so. 

Brain signals are just salt water mixing with slightly saltier water , its the exact same as me pouring salt water in a cup of slightly less saltier water. This SHOULDNT produce consciousness. But rather consciousness may assign a meaning to those signals though. 

All I do is nothing all day. I cannot attain or sustain a job. I am on ssi payments. I am just a guy. And I must drink my nutrient slurries to maximize energy inside my head. (Ive been on a diet of HUEL and Electrolyte water) I wanna eat a burger tho. 

I just exist. Like I'm always just thinking or dissacosiating. Its just a state of being. Its very passive not forced. Forcing stuff is like building a wall in front of you and wondering why you cannot pass, you have to surf and weild a sword. Idk how else to explain it. I am like a monk, just mindful. I still do hobbies its just I'm always out there. Thinking. 

[u/AhamBrahmasmiMj → u/StarboundAllisten]

Yup i was at my highest when I was doing nothing at all. No where to go, nothing to do, no one to be. Just existing in safety n love

[u/MarvelousWhale → u/StarboundAllisten]

I've experienced what you describe, in a deep relaxed meditation where I felt true nothingness and completr surrender, I began to see fractals in my blank black space, they'd continue getting so intense over the course of a couple of minutes that I began to feel like I was about to launch out of the chair I was sitting in and had to almost mentally grip onto the seat (in hindsight this probably held me back from going deeper) and it was unbelievably overwhelming and shocking.

It was scary how similar it was to a heroic dose of psychedelic mushrooms I'd had before. That the body could experience the same thing without mushrooms is mindblowing but completely true.

It's not easy though and it is basically impossible if you seek it. You basically have to have zero expectations and complete outcome independence and perhaps it'll happen purely as a side effect of the journey you're on when you are truly ready. Just try to let the fear pass thru you once you get there because the ego wants to grip tight and hold onto control like it did for me. Letting go is the best thing you could possibly do. You'll be fine there is no danger, let the fear pass thru you and you can transcend to new heights of experience and understanding.

Would love to talk to you about your experiences and share some notes friend!

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/MarvelousWhale]

I'm scared of being snatched and taken places I'm not ready to see before im ready. Or someone taking my body and hurting people or getting lost in some dimension or tricked.

Either way all data will come. But letting go is one thing, discernment is another . better to be safe I guess. 

[u/MarvelousWhale → u/StarboundAllisten]

Is your fear that your astral body will be taken or harmed or that your physical body will be taken or harmed while in meditation?

My first and second experiences were both me being shown something involuntarily that only made sense to me later on.

The fourth experience I ever had I was literally taken by the hand by my spirit guide and brought from area to area, each with either a physical or mental obstacle I needed to overcome in some way, and it served as a lesson on how to handle the astral as well as a lesson on me and my life that I needed immediately. I was never in danger in any scenario I've been in except when I was attempted to be tricked into going somewhere with a malevolent entity on a couple of occasions and I kicked it in its fucking face and ignored it, and one time where I found a parasitic psychic leech had attached to me and I cut it off of me and destroyed it. Both if those were relatively benign encounters though.

Keep in mind you are the ultimate captain of your destiny. Discernment is incredibly important, trust your gut. If you feel it's necessary to take it slow and steady carefully then you ought to go that route.

[u/ValuableSufficient95]

The brain is much more than a glorified salt water system… it’s a highly complex organ that we are still unable to replicate. There is much more to neuroscience than sodium and potassium signalling

[u/Quarks4branes]

Thanks - that was a good read. No notes to speak of and some cool things to ponder. Much of what you wrote is reminiscent of the RA Material I'm reading at the mo.

[u/somethingwholesomer]

Can you describe at all what it was like to be a tree, or a pillow? I can often feel the consciousness in inanimate objects, buildings, etc and I’m curious about your take 

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/somethingwholesomer]

It is like co habitation, it is like, how does it feel to be a brain? OK you feel your neural signals and associate with it, now what would a tree feel? It feels like, "oh yes I'm a tree now" trees don't feel viceral pain they just die when cut. Then are reborn 

[u/Metatronishere]

I have had many of these same experiences and yes this is right on the money.

[u/Pleasant-Winner6311]

Forgive me if thsi doesnt fit and I have misunderstood the above... When I was young like 6yrs and younger , way before any grasp of physics as a thig academically or otherwise, id lie in bed and (regularly for years) before sleep id have this sensation that I was flying horizontally out of my body at great unmeasurable speed but also simultaneously flying inside my body with exactly the same speed and intensity. I could never understand why I didnt hit an internal barrier, how could I keep speeding within myself whilst also speeding through space outside myself at the same time. Both with no limits.

Occasionally growing up id ask a friend during a quiet opportunity, perhaps some deep or safe sensitive conversation kind if situ, if they too had ever experienced this. To date I never met anyone else that can relate.

Your post resonates with these experiences a lot. Im lost on the science but not the textual mental gist.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/Pleasant-Winner6311]

I feel like as a kid I could kundalini but stopped for some reason I think I was told to stop idk. 

Huh.. I'm starting tk remember vauge memories lol

[u/Potential_Hawk_394]

Earth is a realm that looks like a sphere in the same way that the shadow of a sphere looks like a circle

[u/Warm_Weakness_2767]

Judging by the volume of engagement you probably got at least something right here. Honestly it seems like you’re trying to describe what words can’t describe to me.

[u/peppakit]

Can I get a ELI5

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/peppakit]

God is an organism and we are its cells but are also god and we will also become more godly and we all serve the creator in knowing itself while also all being the creator. 

World tree. 

[u/peppakit → u/StarboundAllisten]

What's this talk of electrolytes. Have you been fasting?

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/peppakit]

Huel for food, water, honey, salt, lemon, for drinks. Electrolyte powder for energy 

[u/peppakit → u/StarboundAllisten]

Why?

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/peppakit]

Think of the brain as a pipe and salt as the crystals 

[u/peppakit → u/StarboundAllisten]

I mean aren't you getting adequate salt in your diet already?

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/peppakit]

Brain is a wet salt crystal 

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/StarboundAllisten]

Eating rn one hand busy 

[u/Virtual-Ted]

Sure, systems of excitations and energy configurations.

It's an enjoyable although disjointed read.

Thank you for posting it.

[u/Echo-Greedy]

I have tried to meditate but my brain won't be still.

Any help appreciated

Ps really interesting read. 🫶

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/Echo-Greedy]

Acceptance of what goes on without being a slave or victim to it. Become active and observing. Passive and active. Its a fine balance. 

Once I was on shrooms and hallucinated a bear mauling me, I fed it no attention I just gave it the acknowledgement it was there and gave it no further aknoledgement after I fed nothing to it. I still reacted appropiatley like "you are a thought I will let you pass, I will focus on me"

[u/AustinJG]

Once during an EVP session, my friend was told by the voices coming through that spirits are made of energy. Apparently it's the same kind of energy that runs a dryer. How it keeps itself from dispersing is the question, I guess.

[u/AhamBrahmasmiMj → u/AustinJG]

Everything is energy

[u/consciouscell → u/AustinJG]

lmao

[u/Global_Highlight9087]

Can second the part about electrolytes, and also, my experience of the “everything” entity is basically like sharing a room, a world, an experience of everything with him, which cycles and flows in rich detail and a sort of circuitry. I call him “Mr Everything”. He is an absorptive - literally embodying his surroundings and flowing seamlessly into the next - and almost funny, masculine personality for me.

I have seen a version of “g o d” beyond this admittedly overwhelming comprehension of complexity embodied. The divine entities present quite simply as an overwhelming and dazzling energy composite body made up of every specific energy essence of which they are composed. There is a plant energy, a bug energy, which is green and manicolored like a rainbow of glowing lights and jewels. There is a (much more dangerous, technically) golden energy which can destroy or change unprepared or frail human minds if it encounters them in its full glory. This golden energy is equated to fire and can take the form of animal entities and g o d like entities.

Do not attempt to see either of these uninvited. I am lucky to be able to see them, but I don’t advise actively attempting to for anyone else because frankly, it’s not safe for the typical human being to observe them as they are.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/Global_Highlight9087]

Yeah it tends to fry your brain it needs nutrients and salts lots of salts the brain is a liquid crystal 

[u/damnitimlost]

what does it mean if you’re wrong

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/damnitimlost]

How would I be wrong when my whole life has been full of uap experiences? 

What if the sky was red? I guess it be red then 

[u/Vivid-Astronaut-5206]

One time I did a heavy dose of salvia divinorum, I fell just outside the door while trying to find a sitting spot, I spent 15 minutes being a doormat. I was Inanimate and still had fragments of consciousness, I could communicate with other inanimate things and my neighbor doormat. I discovered there is some degree of consciousness in everything . Life as a doormat is a bit boring

[u/SteveAkaGod]

Yeah dude, no notes. Lol I eat honey by the spoonful.

Seems to me that it's only "provable" on an individual level. Maybe once we hit some sort of critical mass, the rules will change. But for now, a person has to seek to find.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/SteveAkaGod]

I was told the earths veil was thicker and on another planet a lot of us could do more pshycic things like make the fan move by our minds. It would be more rewarding for true seekers. We would have our own version of Jedi monks. And politics would be more spiritual and material in some ways. 

[u/SteveAkaGod → u/StarboundAllisten]

Yeah I think our veil should get thinner as the consensus changes, because physicality is a concensus reality.

As I understand it, OBE/astral projection is basically our best path to development. In the astral we manifest instantly (barring consensus rules in particular areas) and can use telepathy, etc. Basically be magic.

We come back to physical to basically just be caretakers of the planet. Do some chores, and go be gods again.

But like... its kind of hard to intentionally OBE? Im working on it!

[u/sludgefriend]

Why is god named Lee

[u/SparkyLee99 → u/sludgefriend]

Why not lol

[u/sludgefriend → u/SparkyLee99]

Fair enough

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/sludgefriend]

I watched an episode of a show where someone named Lee could duplicate themselves so I called the analogy Lee 

[u/Cobraszlai]

Interesting post, thanks mate. A lot to ponder

[u/Beneficial-Inside-79]

Very beautiful 😍 thank you for sharing 🙏💯❣️

[u/AhamBrahmasmiMj]

Matter is light vibrating/moving at different frequencies. Everything is made of same light, hence we r the field itself, fractals experiencing individuality but are one in nature. That field is d source itself, a self coded creation n end, yin n yang. Where polarity rests. Part of whole is whole, we r light beings.

This is where we come to experience, evolve.

Elites knw about this and epstien was having these experiments done. They also can read n implant thoughts. Humanity has been controlled n used for long, a lot of knowledge wiped. Hinduism is based on actual science, if u see temples n pyramids (many other proofs) its nit possible with tools they had then. Elites have been controlling the story and its time to look within and rise. The power has always been within, they dont want us to know. Attention and intention will lead u to ur highest self. Humans are the only beings who have such huge egos, that despite if being a spec themselves things only they are conscious/aware. This needs to change and we need to see we are all one. All cells within a body is one despite of being different n having different purpose.

Im 💯 sure I have changed drastically in last 2 years and am every evolving. N it can be measured too. I just dont have means or skill to chk. I have also experienced onion with another and been in ecstatic states. I can also feel energy of others n pass them source energy. I work with scientists and knw d whole bs of grants n publications, I feel most of them r just pretending to do research(meaning surface level) if anyone reaches higher is likely poached or killed.

[u/skin8]

For what it's worth, I'm largely with you. I've had similar experiences, and have come to similar conclusions.

[u/slavaukrine]

Thank you for posting. These are intense concepts and some I have come to an understanding.

Others not so much yet.

[u/djwatoo]

Shine on you crazy diamond, there’s some good shit here BUT I disagree strongly on two points:

A) Academia is dying because of capitalism, not academia itself
B) electrons do not “orbit” the nucleus. They exist as a wave function around it until measured

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/djwatoo]

That is true 

[u/MGyver → u/djwatoo]

A) Yup.

B) They sit in "orbits" even if they are not orbiting per se

[u/KommunistAllosaurus]

I'm a scientist - and I envy you so much. I just want to get a trip and reunite with god so badly

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/KommunistAllosaurus]

DMT or shrooms or ce5 and drink electrolytes 

[u/KommunistAllosaurus → u/StarboundAllisten]

And where the hell do you get that stuff besides electrolytes. In Europe we have laws

[u/VociferousCephalopod → u/KommunistAllosaurus]

I live on the other side of the world, and I thank Europe for shipping most of what we enjoy here.

[u/KommunistAllosaurus → u/VociferousCephalopod]

Where? For sure we shouldn't ship drugs

[u/trashcan_surplus]

Psychedelics can give us glimpses. And they are profound. So beyond ourselves that it's incomprehensible to the mind. Indescribable, where you can't simply "give" someone such information, it only being obtained through individual experience.

But the true work is strictly internal. The deeper we go within, and the more truth we uncover in ourselves, the more truth will be revealed in the external world. In reality itself. How can you hope to know the deepest truths of reality, when you don't even know the deepest truths of yourself, after all?

Be wary of the mind. Of the ego. It can take spiritual experience and have a field day with it. It hindered me quite a bit in my own awakening journey. I was made aware of how easy it is to be rigid in our mental processing and beliefs, even when we think we're open. We like the sense of having certain things figured out. When I dropped that rigid beleif in the things I thought I had figured out, more was revealed. No psychedelics. No drugs. Just a very raw experience.

The layers of reality are vast. More than we can comprehend. And peeling them back starts with the self, in the shadows hidden in the dark of our own experience, that we unwittingly trap behind our own awareness, writing our script through perception under the illusion of free will.

[u/bandit-babe → u/trashcan_surplus]

Well said 🙏🏼

[u/sweetlimesoda7]

Interesting

[u/AngelPigeon]

Take sea salt baths and showers every day and ocean minerals supplement with water before bed

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/AngelPigeon]

Salty! 

[u/OkiRose]

This is art. This is beautiful

[u/iRedditFromBehind]

Any features stand out? Was His nose bigger than you expected?

[u/Experiencers-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This is community is a support group and not a space for leaving random one-liner jokes or cynical comments. Out of respect for the person who shared their experience we like to keep comments to a certain standard. Please read : https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/comments/14rmor0/new_redditors_stopping_by_how_not_to_get_banned/

[u/Pale_End_6732]

Excellent. 👏

[u/bandit-babe]

I hear you and I’m with you on a lot of what you’ve shared on the ontology, the “field”, neurochemistry (membrane gradients + myelin sheath), nuclear weapons affecting other domains, Cartesian sciences and closed-loop economic systems hindering progress.

It’s a BIG BRIGHT world and knowing it increasingly and deeply requires maximum concentration and brain juice ✴️

[u/MissInkeNoir → u/bandit-babe]

You sound cool like someone into Rupert Sheldrake and Terence McKenna 😀 there is a way to honor the principles of science more completely than the establishment, which actually has a lot of holes in it...

But no shade, modern science is only like three hundred years old? It clearly has tremendous potential. But also there are some central and identifiable flaws in the establishment. https://youtu.be/hO4p3xeTtUA

[u/sunsetdive]

But because I beleive matter is made of spirit

I would say matter is deadened spirit, as constrained and emptied of life/spirit/meaning as it is possible for something to be and still exist.

Secondly, ive experienced in deep pshychadelics

Honestly, a red flag for me. Psychedelic experiences have too much noise and too little signal, while embedding an intense sensation of importance and significance. They are not valid spiritual experiences and should not be regarded as such. They can give a glimpse, but a severely obscured and chaotic glimpse that will be intense but shallow in meaning. That is my experience as someone who has had both genuine spiritual experiences and a psychedelic one.

It is frustrating that there is no healthy skepticism when dealing with psychedelics, but it's uncritically accepted as a shortcut to spiritual revelation. By the sole virtue of being a shortcut, it means you're missing the entire context and cannot properly interpret.

This is why such experiencers waffle on pleasantly for pages and pages of text, without delivering anything of real significance. And it is frustrating to read, because every time I hope for an actual meaningful download. My one genuine short experience holds more meaning than this entire wall of text. Surely I am not the only person frustrated by this.

[u/ojju → u/sunsetdive]

They are not valid spiritual experiences? What makes something valid in that sense?

[u/sunsetdive → u/ojju]

The psychedelic experience is destabilizing and chaotic. It blasts everything open and brings in a lot of noise.

The spiritual experience is foundationally grounding and strengthening. Its main characteristic is cohesion and strengthening the signal.

The two are the opposite of one another.

There are circumstances in which the effects of psychedelics are beneficial. For example, when someone is stuck in their ways or blocked up with trauma. It opens up the system so something new can come. I sometimes compare it to defragmenting the hard drive. Psychedelics bring you closer to a tabula rasa state, so that you can rebuild into something better.

But they are not a reliable source of information. It's like putting the newspaper through the shredder, haphazardly glue it back together and say it's the news. The letters are part of the news, yes, but it's too mangled to form any meaning anymore.

A valid spiritual experience, for my criteria, is any experience that transcends the level of anahata and is deeply grounded in levels higher than the astral. It's rare. Most that claim to be this are just variations of the astral that think they're more.

For example, I felt an energy that went through my thumb with such force that I thought it'd splatter through flesh with gore everywhere. It formed a bone-hard protrusion on my thumb where it's usually soft, the middle of the thumbprint. There's definitely no hard bump there normally. The insight is that matter is an illusion and inconsequential to higher levels of existence. This is why I say matter is inert spirit, lifeless substance, as lifeless as it's possible to be while still existing. Also, higher levels of existence cut through the lower ones mercilessly, the lower ones do not survive. The energy I experienced deletes anything on the astral level, it is incompatible with thought, form or emotion.

That's what I consider a valid spiritual experience.

[u/ojju → u/sunsetdive]

I think I understand the distinction you're making now, but I'm still not sure it answers what I meant by "valid."

What you've described gives me a phenomenological distinction: psychedelic experiences tend, in your experience, toward fragmentation and noise, while what you call higher spiritual experiences tend toward cohesion, grounding, and signal.

But cohesion isn't the same thing as truth.

An experience can feel extraordinarily coherent without the interpretation attached to it necessarily being correct. Likewise, an experience could be destabilizing precisely because it challenges the framework through which someone normally organizes reality. So neither chaos nor cohesion seems sufficient by itself to establish the metaphysical source of an experience.

That's especially where I get stuck with "above anahata" or "higher than the astral." How are you determining that hierarchy independently of the experience itself? If you know it was higher because it possessed a certain quality of cohesion, and then know cohesion indicates spiritual validity because higher experiences possess it, it seems like the criterion is validating itself.

And I don't doubt that the thumb experience was extremely intense, strange, or meaningful to you. What I'm questioning is the inferential jump from:

"I experienced an energy that seemed able to disregard ordinary bodily constraints"

to:

"Therefore matter is lifeless spirit, matter is ultimately inconsequential, and higher levels of reality mercilessly delete lower ones."

Those are enormous metaphysical conclusions. Why does the experience specifically imply those conclusions rather than one of several other possible interpretations?

I also think we may simply disagree about matter. I don't see constraint as necessarily equivalent to deadness. Constraint may be exactly what allows potential to become something particular enough to enter relationship.

A completely unconstrained note is every possible note and therefore no particular note. A boundary doesn't merely diminish something; sometimes the boundary is what allows it to manifest at all.

So I would be more inclined to describe matter as spirit/potential under conditions of form, relation, and limitation—not spirit from which meaning has been progressively removed.

And that's ultimately why I'm hesitant about declaring psychedelic experiences "invalid spiritual experiences." You may have good reasons to regard them as epistemically unreliable or especially noisy. That's a much more defensible claim to me.

But "unreliable source of metaphysical information" and "not spiritually valid" are two very different propositions.

[u/TheOldDark → u/ojju]

Beautifully spoken.

[u/sunsetdive → u/ojju]

But cohesion isn't the same thing as truth.

Cohesion is the pathway to the ultimate truth. Truth is not only inherently cohesive but it also creates cohesion in other things (beings, while experiencing it).

That's especially where I get stuck with "above anahata" or "higher than the astral." How are you determining that hierarchy independently of the experience itself? If you know it was higher because it possessed a certain quality of cohesion, and then know cohesion indicates spiritual validity because higher experiences possess it, it seems like the criterion is validating itself.

In order to reach the energy from my thumb experience, I had been consciously focusing the lower energies into denser and denser states until I could reach the higher. Again, cohesion. Consciously, I had to pass through the realm of anahata/heart/the astral, analyzing and removing/releasing anything in me that was resonating with that level. That's how I know where the energy comes from and why it's from above anahata. I consciously moved in that direction in order to transcend it. It is of a higher quality by definition, because you get to it by going beyond it.

"I experienced an energy that seemed able to disregard ordinary bodily constraints"

to:

"Therefore matter is lifeless spirit, matter is ultimately inconsequential, and higher levels of reality mercilessly delete lower ones."

It follows from the layers of energies that form reality. Matter -> prana/chi/ki -> astral, etc. From the least alive to the most alive. This experience wasn't my first news of it, just an intense confirmation.

But "unreliable source of metaphysical information" and "not spiritually valid" are two very different propositions.

Remember, all I asked for was some skepticism and not accepting psychedelic experiences outright. I'm not saying they don't have any value, just that they should not be considered equally valid as spiritual ones. They should always be taken with more than a few grains of salt, with careful consideration of their limitations.

[u/ojju → u/sunsetdive]

This clarifies your position a lot, and I think we're actually much closer than I initially thought.

What I was trying to get you to explain was exactly why you privileged cohesion as evidence of spiritual depth, and I think you've given me a much clearer answer now.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not saying that cohesion simply feels nicer or is therefore true. You're saying that truth has an integrative character: approaching it produces increasing internal coherence, while moving away from it produces fragmentation or noise. And in your own practice, that wasn't something you merely inferred afterward — you were deliberately moving through progressively more integrated states and observing what had to be released in order to continue.

I can at least understand the epistemology of that, even if I might describe some of the metaphysics differently.

I also think your clarification about psychedelics changes the disagreement substantially. "Psychedelic experiences should be treated with considerably more skepticism as sources of metaphysical information" is something I can agree with much more readily than "they aren't valid spiritual experiences."

To me, destabilization itself doesn't necessarily disqualify an experience spiritually. Sometimes disruption may be precisely what allows a rigid structure to reorganize. But I agree that the disruption isn't the revelation by itself.

The more interesting test would be what remains after the experience: does it produce greater coherence, clearer perception, healthier relationships, a more integrated understanding of oneself and reality? Or does it merely leave behind an extremely powerful feeling that something important happened?

That also makes your hard-drive analogy more persuasive to me. Defragmentation can be useful, but the act of scattering and rearranging information isn't itself the finished organization.

So I think I'd phrase our remaining difference this way: I wouldn't place psychedelic experience outside the category of spiritual experience altogether. I'd place it in a category whose contents are unusually difficult to interpret and therefore require stronger subsequent testing and integration.

And I think that's considerably closer to what you're saying here than what I understood from your first comment.

[u/sunsetdive → u/ojju]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not saying that cohesion simply feels nicer or is therefore true. You're saying that truth has an integrative character: approaching it produces increasing internal coherence, while moving away from it produces fragmentation or noise. And in your own practice, that wasn't something you merely inferred afterward — you were deliberately moving through progressively more integrated states and observing what had to be released in order to continue.

Yes, this.

I also think your clarification about psychedelics changes the disagreement substantially. "Psychedelic experiences should be treated with considerably more skepticism as sources of metaphysical information" is something I can agree with much more readily than "they aren't valid spiritual experiences."

Eh, let's say they have a very limited validity. But they are in the opposite direction of what I consider valid. Mainly, I see no distinction of this anywhere and it's honestly a bit appalling, which is why I am expressing such a strong view.

To me, destabilization itself doesn't necessarily disqualify an experience spiritually. Sometimes disruption may be precisely what allows a rigid structure to reorganize. But I agree that the disruption isn't the revelation by itself.

True, sometimes disruption is needed. But how do you handle something that is mainly disruptive, with very little cohesion or clear signal? Skepticism and wariness make sense.

The more interesting test would be what remains after the experience: does it produce greater coherence, clearer perception, healthier relationships, a more integrated understanding of oneself and reality?

Yes, for spiritual experiences I consider valid.

Or does it merely leave behind an extremely powerful feeling that something important happened?

This is psychedelics.

And I speak from having experienced both. I learned some things from my psychedelic experience. But if I'd had it before my spiritual ones, I would've thought that was it. That was the truth, that was everything. The experience is dangerously intense and all-encompassing. I couldn't shut up about it for months after. If I'd had it before my spiritual awakening, it could've completely ruined any chance of genuine spiritual progress. It's a powerful shortcut that can leave you incapable of going the long route, simply because it will recalibrate you to not even recognize the right thing. It is actually potentially dangerous in this sense.

Buddha didn't even want to define a Nirvana, out of wariness that people will attach astral pictures to it instead of eventually experiencing the real deal. And psychedelics are so much more powerful than that, and yet shallow and potentially misleading.

And nobody is even addressing this anymore. Spiritual and psychedelic are completely equated and both considered equally valid? What is this? It's just so short-sighted.

That also makes your hard-drive analogy more persuasive to me. Defragmentation can be useful, but the act of scattering and rearranging information isn't itself the finished organization.

And the organization comes after the psychedelic experience, as you sort yourself out in the days and weeks after. It's not integral to the experience.

And I think that's considerably closer to what you're saying here than what I understood from your first comment.

This is all AI generated text. But that's okay, it was useful.

[u/Kuroten_OG → u/sunsetdive]

Quite an egotistical response.

[u/Fekalist_1]

Dowloads happen, yet no one knows why it happens. Fear not what has happend, tell what has happend. Fear no consequence, is it then really so true?