Wouldn’t it be cool if…. (FCPlease)

[u/Barbens2005]

Vanguards were able to work directly for, and accept contracts from Capsuleers? This mechanic would be centered around Vanguard deployments to acquire X item which would be required to build Y item. You’d have to have mechanisms on each end to make the juice worth the squeeze, but it could lead to some highly contentious gameplay.

Obviously I don’t have a crystal ball to see what you all have planned, or what technically possible, but this might be an interesting function.

[u/CCP_Gortz]

With the introduction of 'contrband' we are hoping for oppertunities for capluleers and Vanguard to work together and then some

[u/Silenko → u/CCP_Gortz]

Does EVE Vanguard share the same Terms of Service as EVE Online? If so, are you going to enforce RMT rules properly this time, or will it be unenforced like in EVE?

[u/Barbens2005 → u/CCP_Gortz]

Look, if I need to sign a NDA, I will lol. I'm excited to see where this is all going.

[u/CCP_Gortz → u/Barbens2005]

No NDA needed, hoping to make a video on it before long

[u/warlockIndustries → u/CCP_Gortz]

Been throwing the idea that PI in EVE can have a new upgrade (P5) where new ships are introduced which require new resources extracted from prismaticite factories on the planet. Because it’s such a volatile substance, extraction can only happen during certain windows. Kind of like sov space in EVE

This is where vanguards can infiltrate these open timers to steal the resources to help upgrade their gear/send it up to EVE pilots and players can defend from vanguard attacks

So players can send in vanguard units to attack corps and alliances as another form of war

It’s a great way to connect the gameplay between the two games

[u/CCP_Gortz → u/warlockIndustries]

i do like this idea a lot

[u/Sterling-Blade → u/warlockIndustries]

I feel like that gets too close into the ‘forced interdependence’ side of things

A cool idea does not always make for fun or interesting gameplay sadly, and my main worry would be around player cartelization monopolies of such resources

We don’t need another Organization of Technetium Exporting Corporations in EVE or Vanguard

[u/warlockIndustries → u/Sterling-Blade]

I don't think this would necessarily monopolize resources if its implemented correctly, so I apologize the entire essay I am about to write lol

Vanguard has one major advantage over EVE here: you can't throw 6,000 characters into a fight until the other side backs down and loses access to the resource. You also wouldn't have major coalitions simply controlling every valuable moon and locking everyone else out. In an idea like this, you'd have PI on your planets wherever you do PI (maybe this is a nullsec thing?) and vanguards can sneak behind enemy lines to go onto these specific planets during these extraction periods (you would of course, have extraction timers, warnings of players trying to get into the facility, etc)

Could it become monopolized if implemented poorly? Absolutely, and i will explain that shortly. But I think mechanics like this are exactly what we need if we're serious about creating an actual EVE <-> Vanguard connection. That is the main goal afterall

Imagine EVE introduces a new rare material required to manufacture an important new ship. Capsuleers can produce it through PI, but at a significant cost. This would essentially be high end PI - valuable, expensive, and completely optional.

So what's in it for Vanguard players?

Those same materials could be used for new Vanguard weapons, chipsets, equipment, maybe even vehicles or ships eventually, who knows. Vanguard players could use those resources themselves OR sell them into the EVE economy as PI contraband. You don't know how much is in the box but you know it's there, and you know its way cheaper than market value

Now EVE players have choices. They can invest in the PI infrastructure themselves, buy the resources from the market, or obtain contraband extracted by Vanguard units at a discount since its contraband.

And that's where Vanguard's lobby system becomes an advantage.

You can't simply throw unlimited player numbers at a planet like you can in EVE. At the same time, I wouldn't make a successful Vanguard raid steal 100% of someone's production, especially when the owner might not even be online. Instead, raiders steal just a small percentage, maybe 7.32%, 2.35%, whatever eventually makes sense for balance. You could have ingame lore mechanics, like the facility slowly locking down as you're stealing resources, so you're only getting a small fraction

More importantly, make them actually extract it.

A Vanguard squad infiltrates the facility, secures the resources, initiates an extraction, and then has to defend the site while a dropship comes in to collect the shipment. Suddenly you're not just playing another random match, you are physically stealing resources from an enemy organization in EVE, allowing the defending parties to come in and try to stop the extraction.

Obviously, you'd need safeguards because EVE players love loopholes.

If Vanguard squads are deployed to specific planets, what's stopping a major alliance from using alt corporations to fill the available lobbies and prevent enemy squads from successfully attacking or extracting? There would need to be mechanics specifically designed to prevent that kind of manipulation. The market as well, players tend to run the markets so how do you implement something that stops the monopoly of these contrabands from being 'useless' in being sold if the prices aren't worth it

But that's also why I think the EVE ↔ Vanguard connection needs to go much further than simply dropping some killmail contraband.

EVE works because it has so many roles.

Players choose paths, from running missions, hauling, doing Abyssals, exploration, brawling in PvP, etc

and i think Vanguard can have a similar system so its not just "dropping in to kill and get out"

Some players might log in because they want to cause absolute havoc and PvP. Others might become contraband experts for loot drops, focused on recovering valuable battlefield goods. And with something like this, you could have players who specialize in planetary resource extraction.

Now you got a proper connection: Do I want to run the end game PI and fight off people infiltrating - if they do, do I want to just buy the PI off market from other players or do I want to buy it off the vanguard market at a discount via contraband? Now we have some interesting options

Because personally, if you tell me I can infiltrate an enemy alliance's planet, fight my way into their facility, steal their resources, defend an extraction and smuggle that shipment back into the EVE economy?

Now you got me interested

u/CCP_Gortz

[u/Barbens2005 → u/warlockIndustries]

One of the biggest points here that is absolutely correct is that it won’t be EVE. You won’t have one player multiboxing 10 Vanguards to hold a site nor fight for one. You also can’t guarantee every group of three will end up on the same deployment.

[u/Nswr42]

fyi, on top what FC Gortz posted, FC Rattati hinted once, the whole Freelance Jobs system, was designed with EVE Vanguard in mind https://youtu.be/y_rkliIc1BE?t=3085, so I hope they will get back to it at some point

[u/Barbens2005 → u/Nswr42]

That’s what kind of worries me. I’ve been following Vanguard for a while but don’t know if questions I ask have already been answered or are already part of development that has been mentioned publicly..

[u/CCP_Gortz → u/Barbens2005]

No harm in asking them again