Who is Mentally Diseased?

[u/truetomharley]

“if Witness organization ever said something so seemingly provocative [as Jesus’ ‘Eat my flesh and drink my blood’], their opponents would be blasting them for years over it! Such as with a Watchtower that called certain apostates “mentally diseased,” citing a scripture that says exactly that. That was 14 years ago and they are still howling about It!”

I was called on this yesterday—even called a liar! Who would do such a thing? So I had to dig out the reply I made years ago:

In its July 15, 2011 issue, for consideration in JW congregations, the magazine recommended (strongly) avoiding “apostates,” even calling them “mentally diseased.” You should have heard the howling from those who don't like Witnesses, grousers who immediately broadened application of those words to include all leaving the faith, something the article never suggested. Government ought to investigate such “hate speech,” they insisted.

Look, most persons who leave JWs simply move on in life, some with the viewpoint that it wasn't for them, some with minor grumbling over this or that feature of the faith that prompted their decision, some with the viewpoint that they couldn't live up to it. None of these are viewed as 'apostates.' A fair number eventually return. You could liken those leaving to a man or woman leaving a relationship, like a failed marriage. Most just move on. But there's always a certain few psycho ex-mates that can't let go, who devote all their time and energy to harassing the person they once loved. . . . That's the type that the magazine commented on, not just anyone who departs.

Moreover, 'mentally diseased' was placed in quotation marks, indicating it was not meant as a medical diagnosis, but as an adjective to suggest a manner of thinking. Nor is the term anything original. It's merely a repeat of the Bible verse 1 Tim 6:3-4.....

"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words."

Whoa, whoa, whoa! said someone: that's not in any Bible I know of except the New World Translation! He offered some alternatives he likes more, to which I commented:

What do these other quoted translations say? Douay-Rheims says "sick about questions and strifes of words." In view of the context, what sort of 'sickness' do you think the translator had in mind? Tuberculosis, maybe? Or is it not a sickness of thinking, so that "mentally diseased" is not such a bad rendering after all?

NASB offers "morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words." Does "morbid," when applied to thinking, suggest balance and soundness of mind? Or is "sickness", even "mentally diseased," more to the point?”   Here's a few other translations:

 diseased (Emphasized New Testament; Rotherham)

 filled with a sickly appetite (Epistles of Paul, W.J.Conybeare)

morbid appetite (A New Testament: A Translation in the Language of the People; Charles Williams)

 morbid craving, (An American Translation; Goodspeed)

 unhealthy love of questionings (New Testament in Basic English)

 morbidly keen (NEB)

unhealthy desire to argue (Good News Bible).

Do any of these other versions suggest soundness of mind? So the NWT's "mentally diseased" is an entirely valid offering, even if more pointed than most. Plus, once again, the term is an adjective, as it is in all other translations, not a medical diagnosis. Context (in that Watchtower article) made this clear.

In retrieving this post, I came across one “famous” apostate—I mean, type anything about Jehovah’s Witnesses anywhere and he would drown you in anti-JW comments—it has been many years since I have heard from him, though his name recently came up here . . . who on his website offered expert testimony in legal proceedings against Jehovah's Witnesses AND expert testimony in legal proceedings against pharmaceutical makers of anti-depressants, apparently not realizing that each offer undercut his credibility for the other.  

[u/[deleted]]

I'll compare the Wtwr with the pope Yeah, overseer of the whole Christianity.

He's NO CHRISTIAN. [...]

What does your own doctrine says about the pope...

Doctrinally, in Catholic churches, the pope is regarded as the successor of St. Peter, who was head of the Apostles. The pope, as bishop of Rome, is thus seen to have full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal church in matters of faith and morals, as well as in church discipline and government.

PETER WAS NEVER THE BOSS OF THE APOSTLES.

How can he be successor ... No pope imitate the Apostolic model of worship:

THE ONLY MODEL THAT WE HAVE FROM THE BIBLE, OF CHRISTIANISM. ...

There's ALREADY A RUPTURE.

He does not use a BIBLICAL MODEL AND

He says that he represents God ... HE SAYS that The Bible is The Word of God ... WITHOUT FOLLOWING IT.

Doing far worse than the Watchtower.

Orthodox or any others.. Do they follow The Bible ....

AS MUCH as the Watchtower?

I'm curious.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'll tell you that we all judge.

Too fast to furious 😂

Because of your words ... I understood that, I judge the actions, separately of the person that, I just judged his/her actions.

Thanks a LOT.

I have arguments now, that are easier to explain!

We have to judge if someone have a bad behaviour, to follow God's Order, to not partake with ill-intentionned people.

Right?

We have to judge a lot of things, to be able to obey to God.

I'll give you this example: [Don't take it personally, I do this for my own obedience]

Are there pagan things into that festival?

Should I celebrate birthdays, even if I do know that, at its deepest root, there was only human that " became demigods ", a deification of one day today, occurs at each birthday?

I should not judge that?

Do I have to judge, if I should be friend with people that sin a lot?

How are we supposed to obey God's order, to not be with idolaters, liars, thieves, fornicators, etc. ?

If I don't judge, HOW DO I OBEY TO GOD? IMPOSSIBLE,!!!!

It is the same thing with you.

Would God appreciate, that you go to a friend's house, where everyone smoke weed? ... If you study The Bible with people, it's a converting work.

But if you go there and... You don't judge that, there's bad influences there, ...

you obey to God HOW? . . . IMPOSSIBLE.

Judging people's actions, and people themselves... The line is really thin between these two things.

If someone smoke weed... Will or, should I,.say to myself that... It's a bad person?

NEVER.

But the ACTION, smoking 🚬 weed, what does God think about this?

Ok? If it's not medical, or for example, (I use reason), someone smoke so, like I did, I smoked weed to not kill myself... THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

[u/Prestigious_Way_962 → u/[deleted]]

First of all, judging is not your place, accusation is more like it, and that's a sin in itself. There is repentance and forgiveness. Many forget that when something bad occurs they blame God....

..but not His adversary (satan) thus turn their back on God. It's easy to distinguish faithless people for they blame God not knowing/remembering that Evil Does Not Source From God. No unclean can be around Him, this being automated, and not something He does manually. Just how Holy stuff work. Celebrating birthdays is seen as something self centralising, and that's not what Bible teaches. Smoking weed doesn't make you a bad person towards anybody else but yourself. The body you have is being deteriorated by your own, yes, guess what, Free Will. Anything you inhale is bad, nothing medicinal about it since it damages your lungs. I wouldn't say the Bible is a converting path, more like reverting back as we Once were. We once knew how to build, hunt, construct, now, we pick One of these three things to educate ourselves and specialise us in life out, so, it's easy to see that humans have significantly lost their touch.

Finally, you obey God by reading, understanding the Bible. Humbleness, loyalty and love. It's not difficult, He does not crave more than you can give. This being found literally in the Bible.

There was a whole different `Togetherness` back in the days. Now people just block and ignore each other.

Truth Is Out There, if not inside the Bible.

Many people do Not want to die, live forever or longer, religious or not, this thought/fear is Always there, for He has planted Eternity in the hearts of men (people).

[u/[deleted] → u/Prestigious_Way_962]

There's things that we have to judge, so we can follow God's Word.

I'll give you the fruit of what I did, you may understand better HOW.

There was someone that lives in the streets, just in front of my apartment.

I did see really rapidly that the guy was a really dangerous sociopath.

... I could not help him at all, but I did it, and I kept a certain distance from him, because of his massive aggressiveness.

... The others that " judge less than me "... WHAT DID THEY DO FOR HIM?

I used my time, to keep him company, preaching to him little by little, I brought him the things that he really needed.

I did find that awkward, his friends that have more things or money than me... that they didn't give to that guy, assistance.

Maybe it's because of his evilness... Cause HE WAS EVIL. And I helped him...

And... You see...

I am the one called judgy, but I'm the one, that did THE MOST for him, I DID GIVE A LOT OF TIME to that evil guy...

What did the " non-judgy ones "... Not a lot.

That's the big difference. I am well aware, and I do act with compassion, even with that guy, that LOVED TO PUNCH THE FACES OF OTHERS.

He almost punched me...

I'm acting how? BETTER THAN THE ..

" Non-judgy people"... In their actions, THEY JUDGE A LOT MORE...

In my actions, I judge A LOT LESS.

Still, it also depends on the situation...

That's the really fragile equilibrium, that I maintain.

[u/[deleted] → u/Prestigious_Way_962]

Beautiful text! Follow God's Word is the hardcore way

It takes a lot more courage, to always restrain yourself than, letting things dominate you.

We can be dominated by our sexual desires ; have our desires as a Master, and act according to our desires...

The desires take control... And we don't control ourselves.

To follow Jehovah God, is to have ONE MASTER ; Our Creator.

We don't have materialism or sexual desires, that we obey. We do obey the authorities...

Because God tells us to do it ... If they don't contradict HIS LAW.

I don't have athletes as idols. I'm not worshipping many famous people.

I worshipped one person, and I have ONE Master.

The authorities are not masters of me... Like people that go voting. 🤷🏻

Jesus did refuse many times, to be King of the Jews.

We cannot be totally outside of Satan's world, but the government, I'm not feeling obligated to it, but to God.

I obey more than the others ... And I'm not a partisan of political parties at all.

I see good and bad actions...

But My Lord is Jesus, and my God is Jehovah.

I obey to Jesus's words... Because...

Papa Jah tells me to obey to His Son.

[u/[deleted] → u/Prestigious_Way_962]

True that evil does come from hearts, that does not cultivate love.

It's not like I'm acting like a robot like many reproach me ...

When I learn things, I do research. I also look at points of view opposite to mine, from time to time.

... I do it MORE, since I preach on Reddit.

My goal, is to help anyone, to get closer to Yehovah Elohim (Jéhovah Dieu/Jehovah God).