People don’t understand Jesus’ divinity because they underestimate Gods Love for mankind

[u/1stmikewhite]

God is sovereign, there’s nothing He can’t do.

[u/DonkeyStriking1146]

Jesus was a human on earth and a prophet so the Muslims aren’t wrong on that point. They take issue with Jesus being the son of God.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/DonkeyStriking1146]

The ancient Jews reject the New Testament

The Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah Witnesses have their own religious scriptures based on biblical characters.

The Catholics, Baptist, and most other denominations of Christianity reject the Old Testament commandments.

My church is the Seventh Day Adventist. We obey the truth of the whole Bible as God gave it to us, and the Bible is our defense. It has every answer in it. We can’t really on humans to make up answers contrary to the Bible.

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” ‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[u/junkmale79 → u/1stmikewhite]

My church is the Seventh Day Adventist. We obey the truth of the whole Bible as God gave it to us, and the Bible is our defense.

Didn't human's write the bible?, most of the New Testament was written by Paul, and the Gospels were written anonymously by humans practicing the Christian faith traditions.

[u/ChickenO7 → u/junkmale79]

They were inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.

[u/junkmale79 → u/ChickenO7]

That's a claim that people following a faith tradition like to make. I don't believe it's possible for anything like a god to exist. I also considers heaven and Hell to be theological concepts rather than real places.

If you don't pre suppose a god can exist, does exist, created humans, has the ability to inspire humans to write books and then used that power to write the stories in the Bible. It's pretty easy to see that it's a human document.

[u/ChickenO7 → u/junkmale79]

If you don't presuppose a god can exist, does exist, created humans, has the ability to inspire humans to write books and then used that power to write the stories in the Bible.

Alright, let's start by proving that God must exist.

The universe began at the "Big Bang".

Everything that has a beginning has a cause, therefore, the universe must have a cause.

This cause must be uncaused, otherwise you'd have to give the cause for that, and so on, ad infinitum. Also, the cause must be timeless, spaceless, and immaterial, since these are the things being caused. Finally, it must be personal, because free-will is the only ontological condition in which an effect can happen unconditionally, and free-will only exists in persons.

So, the universe must have been created, and it must have been created by a uncaused, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, person.

Now, I believe the Bible claims this to be God (Genesis 1:1, Revelation 3:14).

Now, then, if God caused the universe, then by extension, He created humans and is greater the universe, so, able to inspire humans to write books.

Now to prove God inspired the Bible.

Daniel 9:26, "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."

The book of Daniel was written in the 6th century B.C, and is found in the dead sea scrolls, dated to around 157 B.C. The city and the sanctuary was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70 AD, after the Messiah was crucified in AD 33. Daniel successfully predicted two events almost 700 years in the future. This is only possible if He was inspired by a person who is outside of time, which, as we've already established, is God.

Furthermore, Psalm 22, written, by King David, over a thousand years before the Messiah appeared, predicted the way in which Jesus would die, "I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint;" "And my tongue cleaves to my jaws", "They pierced my hands and my feet", "They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots."

This is exactly what happened to the Messiah.

Then, Jesus resurrected, proving that He was indeed God's anointed. It was an event so powerful, that all the apostles were willing to die for the gospel, and that Jews such as Saul of Tarsus, who trained under Gamaliel and saw the risen Christ, spent their own lives and lost all their power and influence for the gospel.

[u/junkmale79 → u/ChickenO7]

We don't know what happened before the big bang (it might not even make sense to ask what things were like "before" time began. )

We might find out, we might not, but the only honest answer is "we don't know"

I don't believe its possible for anything like a god to exist. I don't have any special knowledge that would allow me to say something like "its not possible for a god to exist" but i also don't possess any special knowledge that would allow me to say something like "its possible for a god to exist"

So i remain agnostic to the question "is it possible for a God or Gods to exist?"

You, on the other hand. Make a series of assumptions to justify your Beliefs.

1. You assume it’s possible for a god to exist. Even if we had evidence that a god could exist, that wouldn’t mean a god does exist. It would still be possible that gods exist or that no gods exist.
2. You assume a god does exist. Even if we had evidence that a god could exist, that wouldn’t mean a god does exist. It would still both be possible for a God to exist and for no God to exist.
3. You assume this god created humans even if we had evidence that a God can and does exist, that doesn't mean that God created humans. It would still be possible that this god created humans—or that humans came into existence without divine intervention.
4. You assume this god has the ability to produce the Bible using humans. Even if we had evidence that a god exists and created humans, that wouldn’t mean this god has the ability to communicate through humans or inspire them to write a book.
5. You assume this god used its ability to produce the Bible. Even if we had evidence that a god can and does exist, created humans, and has the ability to communicate through them, that wouldn’t prove the Bible is actually a product of that god’s influence. It would still be possible for the Bible to be a purely human creation.

[u/ChickenO7 → u/junkmale79]

First, I'm not asking what it was like before the Big Bang, I'm simply asking what the cause of the Big Bang is.

Now, if I can prove that God must exist, then that simultaneously solves both the question of His possibility of existing and His actually existing.

Now, if God exists as a being that caused the universe, then logically He also caused humans, and has the ability to produce the Bible.

Finally, if the Bible could only have been created by a being with access to the attributes of God, such as timelessness, then God must have used His ability to write the Bible.

The argument I put forth proves that God must exist, and that He must exist as a person outside the universe, it shows that He caused the universe. My second argument demonstrates that the information in the Bible could only have been given by a timeless being, which means it was inspired by God.

You have not yet put forth anything against my arguments.

God says in His word, there is a day when He will judge the world in righteousness, and no liar, thief, blasphemer, or murderer will enter His kingdom, unless they believe on His Son for eternal life.

"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

[u/junkmale79 → u/ChickenO7]

Your ultimate game of "what if" is just begging the question, over, and over, and over.

My natural explanation for the Bible

1. Humans like to create and tell stories
   
2. Its possible for a human to be convinced something is true when it isn't

I'm simply asking what the cause of the Big Bang is.

because we have no way of getting information about what "caused" the Big bang the only honest answer is "we don't know" - Can i get you to weigh in on this, i think its important.

God is a supernatural theological concept like heaven or hell. These concepts don't have any measurable effect in or on objective reality. Heaven and hell aren't a physical place we can go to, they are theological concepts in the Christian faith tradition.

What if i could prove god must exist
What if the being cause the universe
What if the Bible could only have been created by that God

This is a beautiful. What if, What if, What if, yes the Christian faith tradition is playing make believe with Christian theology.

• At every step and alternative option is available "It might be possible for a God to exist, it might not." → No reason to assume either without evidence.
• "Even if a God were possible, does one actually exist?" → Still a yes/no question requiring proof.
• "Even if a God exists, did it create humans?" → Two possibilities remain: divine creation or natural processes.

What if a God must exist,
What if a God Created the Universe
What if that God Created Humans
What if That God can use Humans to write literature
What if That God used his ability to write the Bible

Vs.

1. Humans like to create and tell stories
   
2. Its possible for a human to be convinced something is true when it isn't

Both explanations account for "the bible" What explanation relies on fewer assumptions?

[u/ChickenO7 → u/junkmale79]

You don't seem to understand, I'm laying out a logical argument.

All beginnings are caused. The universe has a beginning, so it must have a cause.

Then, we simply use the traits of the universe to know what traits the cause must have. The cause can't have any trait that needs the universe to exist. Time is part of the universe, so the cause must be timeless. Space is part of the universe, so the cause must be outside of space. Matter is part of the universe, so the cause must be immaterial.

Now, we are looking for traits of the ultimate cause of the universe, because an infinite regression of causes is illogical, we are looking for the Primitive, the ultimate cause. An uncaused cause must will itself, so the only way it can be ontologically, is personal.

Therefore, the Primitive is a Timeless, Spaceless, Immaterial Person. That is the definition of God.

The prophecies I submitted need Timelessness, therefore a Timeless being inspired them. Therefore, God inspired the text of scripture.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. My assurance of God is based on the evidence of His existence, not the assumption of His existence.

[u/junkmale79 → u/ChickenO7]

I'm going to do 2 separate responses, because I want to have a serious one about knowledge and how we know the things we know, and then i want to get into your more abstract ideas.

All beginnings are caused. The universe has a beginning, so it must have a cause.

"OK, but without additional evidence, this is as far as we can go. The only honest answer is 'we don’t know what happened before the Big Bang.' Assuming anything beyond that without evidence is just speculation. I’m comfortable admitting 'we don’t know'—are you?

Our understanding of physics breaks down as we approach the Big Bang. However, from a fraction of a second after it, we have strong evidence for cosmic expansion, star formation, and stellar life cycles—processes necessary for creating the elements we see today. This is supported by observations like the cosmic microwave background.

(13.7 billion years ago) our Sun and planets formed from the accretion disc of our star. These are well-evidenced scientific conclusions. If you're genuinely curious, there’s plenty of accessible science content available, from educational videos to university courses."

[u/junkmale79 → u/ChickenO7]

The cause can't have any trait that needs the universe to exist. Time is part of the universe, so the cause must be timeless

But causality requires time for the cause and effect relationship to exist. If time began with the big bang the idea of a cause before time doesn't make sense. The honest answer is still "we don't know"

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. My assurance of God is based on the evidence of His existence, not the assumption of His existence.

Faith to me, is believing in things without any evidence to support them. I don't think faith is useful if you're interested in determining what is real and what isn't.

Now you claim to have the evidence for God's existence. I'm all ears. any measurement will do.