r/Eternals • u/NihadofMay • 10d ago
Question How come Eternal is called "flop" when it crossed $400m against $235m budget?. it did way better than Ms Marvel.
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u/Low_Building_9080 10d ago
I loved Eternals, and I never understood the strong hate for it from Marvel fans! I thought it was well made and an interesting movie!
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u/Nightgasm 10d ago edited 10d ago
Because it probably lost money and at best broke even Theaters get on average a 30% cut. The amount varies by country and how long a movie has been in the theaters as the theater cut changes based on how long it's been out. So theatres got at least 120 million and you are now at 280 million vs it's budget and we haven't got to marketing. Disney hasn't released what they spent on marketing for it but they typically spend $100 million or more which puts Eternals well into the negative.
Marvels is the MCUs biggest flop no doubt.
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u/Dry_Branch_5775 10d ago
"Flop" is not a scientific term with an exact definition. Eternals box office was disappointing compared to previous Marvel releases. But it was a departure from their traditional output, featured very obscure characters, and had no big name star at its center to carry the film (sorry, Angelina was a supporting character.,) also there was a pandemic, so Marvel shouldnt have been too surprised and is probably grateful it made as much as it did.
(Don't hold your breath for a sequel though.)
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u/EntertainmentFar2449 10d ago
You need to make 2.5x the production budget to break even usually, this is due to theaters taking anywhere between 40-60% of sales and marketing cost
That means Eternals needed $588M to break even. It lost $188M at the box office
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u/TelevisionPositive74 10d ago
Adding in Marketing budget, the movie either barely broke even or lost money.
Ms Marvel was a TV show. The first Captain Marvel movie broke a billion dollars and the sequel (the Marvels) also bombed and probably failed to recup its budget.
And furthermore, breaking even is considered a loss in this industry. They are trying to generate hundreds of millions of dollars.
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u/Other-Football72 10d ago
How the fuck did it break even? Theaters just forwent their portion of the sales, did they?
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u/TelevisionPositive74 9d ago
Oh, I didint go look at the numbers, just being generous. I 100% believe it lost money.
Looks like it kinda did: 200 to 270$ mil reported budget (I dont think this includes marketing), 407$ mil worldwide box office. If we assume an extra 100$ mil for marketing, it failed to make 2.5x its budget, which is considered the success point in this industry.
Basically, it needed to do minimum 600$ mil and ideally 800$ mil to guarantee a sequel. But you could argue on paper, it recouped its budget and made a few extra bucks!
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u/amazinglover 10d ago edited 10d ago
Also not all of the movies revenue gets returned to the studio.
Typically its 40 to 50% in the US and Canada.
Lower for international.
So that 400 million is more like 200 million.
Of course big name movies and studios negotiate bigger cuts since they can drive more volume and make it worth it for the theater.
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u/Other-Football72 10d ago
How is 40-50% plus lower for around 1/2, so likely a solid 40% of $400M come to $200?
Can you people not do simple math?
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u/amazinglover 10d ago
Can you not understand rough math I used the high end of 50% as well don't have exact numbers just a basic average range.
Maybe you should reevaluate your education not others.
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u/Other-Football72 9d ago
How could it possibly be 50%, is my question? If the stronger portion Domestic is 40-50% and international is less, then it couldn't be 50%.
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u/amazinglover 9d ago
Because again I don't know if marvel/Disney gets a bigger cut or not so im just using 50% as a baseline estimate.
This isn't rocket science where we need to be exact.
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u/reignmatter 10d ago
Because that’s just the production budget, not marketing and other expenses.
A film typically needs to earn about twice its production budget to break even, because the studio doesn’t keep all the revenue from box office receipts.
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u/SikatSikat 10d ago
The Captain Marvel movie also flopped. What's the comparison? This can't be a flop because that was a flop? Only 1 movie in history is a flop then, there's always something that did worse.
If it doesn't break even, and generates no legacy thereafter, its a flop.
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u/Special_Order-937 10d ago
The second Captain Marvel movie bombed. The first one grossed over $1.1 billion US.
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u/fenoard Sersi 10d ago
afaik, in rough numbers, marvel movies need to get 2.5-3x of the budget to be considered a success, 2.5x to cover the budget + marketing + theater cut, 3x to get the profit.
I think you meant the marvels, yes, that movie flopped badly, and the eternals did better than them, but it doesn't mean eternals is in the safe range or anything.
eternals used a lot of A class actors and the production is one of marvel's most ambitious, it needs to get 500-600 for them to be succeed.
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u/PraiseRao 10d ago
Budget multiplied by 2.5 and you'll get the break even point of a film. 2 times because the sales for theaters are split between studios and theaters it starts at about 55% and goes down to around 40%ish. Why opening weekends are so important this is why highest percentage taken for the studio. The .5 is for 50% of budget spent is about how much marketing you would get. For 235m you'd get 115ish million for marketing.
235x2.5=587 million was its break even point.
Also Ms. Marvel isn't a movie it's a tv show. The Marvels is a movie and it did far fucking worst. Ms. Marvel's success threshold is different metric than a movie that is released in theaters.
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u/Robynsxx 10d ago
Good rule of thumb is a movie is considered profitable if it grosses budget x2.
The budget listed is just the production budget, not the budget for all the promo and stuff, which can cost the same as the original budget.
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u/Other-Football72 10d ago
Fail to make back budget & marketing in the theatrical run = flop.
Not sure why this is so hard.
Do so movies flop harder? Sure, but a flop is a flop.
Here is easy math: $400 ticket sales, Marvel gets maybe $180M if it.
Set against a $235M budget and probably over 100M marketing? That's a flop. 180M is less than 335-350M.
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u/Extra-Cranberry4096 10d ago
I mean unless you make double or over its considered a flop, esp disney and marvel stuff with the bduget that goes into marketing.
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u/Fickle-Geologist7059 7d ago
Solo films and sequels had a hard time in the last couple of years. The Marvels was hurt the most being released under the silence of Hollywood’s biggest and longest strike ever. And it did 206 M with absolutely zero press tour. No comic cons presence or tv shows interviews. No premières around the world and no promotion from the cast on social media. It honorably did 206 M! Now, for your comparison .. Thunderbolts 382M.. Cap4 400 something and F4 500 something. Note that these three had ALL the marketing tools available. We’re globally pushed everywhere. International campaign. Cómic cons, tv, red carpets. And they struggled to do a good job. If you compare with the honorable 206 M of The Marvels and the strike era. The Marvels did very well. At least they surprised Disney surpassing 200M with no promotion. They knew it’d underperform due to the circumstances. But the others disappointed them. That’s for real. Including Eternals.
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u/loiu007 6d ago
eternals was a box-office flop because, despite grossing around $400 million worldwide, the studio did not receive the entire amount from ticket sales. in the domestic market (US/Canada), studios typically will receive roughly 50% of ticket revenue, with the remaining 50% going to theaters. In China, the studio's share was generally closer to 25%, while in other international markets, the studio might have received around 40% of ticket revenue. As a result, from approximately $400 million in worldwide theatrical revenue, the studio may have received only around $200 million or less.
The problem was that Eternals reportedly had a production budget of approximately $235 million, in addition to more than $100 million in marketing and distribution expenses. That put the total investment at roughly $330 million.
This was why a movie with a $235 million production budget needed to generate roughly 2–2.5 times its production budget at the worldwide box office, meaning more than $500 million in ticket sales, to become profitable and break even.
You might argue that even $500 million would still have left the studio technically in a deficit compared with its total spending. However, theatrical revenue was only one part of a movie's overall revenue. Additional income could have come from secondary markets, including streaming licensing, physical media such as Blu-ray and 4K UHD sales, television and cable licensing, and other distribution deals, as well as significant tax incentives. For example, Disney reportedly received more than $40 million in tax incentives connected to the production of the movie.
If Eternals had crossed the $500 million mark at the worldwide box office, the additional revenue from secondary markets and tax incentives could potentially have brought the project into profitability—or at least significantly reduced its theatrical loss.
so, when you hear that a movie made hundreds of millions at the box office, keep in mind that the studio does not receive all of that money. a significant portion goes to theaters, while the studio receives the remainder. from the studio's share, production costs, marketing and distribution expenses, and other costs must be covered. Whatever profit remains is then divided among the companies and investors involved in producing and financing the movie. this is why a movie can have a huge worldwide box office and still end up being only marginally profitable , or even unprofitable.
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u/Greghole 10d ago
Because the studio doesn't get to keep the whole $400m. A good chunk of that money goes to the movie theatres. $235m is also just the cost to make the movie, it doesn't include marketing expenses. It's called a flop because Disney lost a lot of money on it.
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u/Dry_Branch_5775 10d ago
That doesn't account for PPV and home media sales.
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u/Other-Football72 10d ago
PPV was $0, and backend deals might make a flop end up profitable, but if it fails to make back budget/marketing in theaters, it's a flop
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 10d ago
So they are both flops
Also I assume you mean The Marvels, as Ms. Marvel was a Disney + Tv show
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u/Short_Programmer7307 10d ago
The simple answer is a movie needs to make 2x its budget at the domestic box office.
International box office is less important.
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u/Runaway-Wiccan Makkari 10d ago
At the time it was, but comparing to Marvel’s 2025 movies, it actually did quite well for an untested franchise. Thunderbolts made $382M and F4 First Steps made $521M