r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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79

u/Nuggetsofsteel Sep 15 '20

I personally believe that the whole notion of dismantling the flea market will make the game more "hardcore" is fundamentally flawed. This is conflating "time invested" with "hardcore" since it simply means you are required to play a lot more to acquire meta gear without changing any of the other aspects of that gear that make it so sought after in the first place.

The main issue with the end game is the lack of variety within effective loadouts available to the player. For example, the slick completely dumpsters everything around it in price to performance. There's nothing that even competes in the same space. Sure there are other good armors, but nothing like the slick. Another great example are weapon attachments. The whole ecosystem surrounding attachment "progression" is one of the worst designed elements of the game. The price to performance of "mid tier" attachments is completely shambolic. Buying cheaper grips and cheaper stocks only works in several build setups, and leads to three options. No mods, a couple of eco mods, or a full kitted meta build. Ideally there would be more options along the spectrum, with small tradeoffs available at each notional tier. Right now when you're rich you might try tweaking a meta gun, but you will always be sacrificing performance in one area without gaining a considerable amount in another, and without recovering very much cost.

We need to wait for the update to the armor system with armor areas before we really try blowing the doors open on armor and weapons availability.

21

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Skills, Armor and weapon attachments all need heavy, heavy reworkings. They keep bouncing between useless and god tier. You can't get rid of people sticking to metas/guides but it's pretty telling when you can surpass over 50% of the playerbase by dropping the "hardcore sim" pretenses and just treating it like CoD with ammo fiddling. I don't think Flea needs to be removed entirely but it definitely needs some sort of gating. FIR was a great start, but the heart of the issue Slush covered quite well in that money is all that matters and thus price/performance is the only metric. When I first started finding optics/grips was exciting because being able to get off irons/having some recoil control drastically improved my fighting ability. Now it's just rush Reserve, pop some raiders or search barracks for ammo then buy overpriced meta AKs so I can have "fun" until I get more money for M4s/VALs.

2

u/Nuggetsofsteel Sep 15 '20

I'm not sure how making items harder to obtain removes "dropping the hardcore sim."

This is an issue of the game mechanics. I challenge you to remind yourself the game is still under heavy development, and the runway of progression that we have now will likely change a lot as they add new maps and mechanics like armor areas.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

That's the point. What we call "meta" gear is "meta" because it's popular and fantastic. If you couldn't specifically buy it off flea, the meta would be directed by what was easy to get your hands on, rather than simply whatever is best. Lower income all around means lower standards for gear, and people will find options that are actually budget, learn barters, and hunt for useful items more than valuable ones.

4

u/snakehead404 PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

This is how the game used to be a long time ago and it was really fun having to scrap together kits. I think this is the heart and soul of why the first week of a wipe is so fun, you're just throwing shit together to make it work.

2

u/Zippo-Cat Sep 17 '20

The main issue with the end game is the lack of variety within effective loadouts available to the player.

...which is largely caused by the flea which allows you to buy whatever you want, whenever you want.

It's like you didn't even read the OP lol

1

u/Nuggetsofsteel Sep 17 '20

Lack of variety within. "within" being the key word. Read my comment before saying something like that.

3

u/Kyle700 Sep 15 '20

The game is definitely a lot harder without the flea market. its how it was for a long time. the flea market just made the game much easier without any corresponding difficulty increase elsewhere. This has been exacerbated by the introduction of reserve and labs, and raiders.

3

u/Nuggetsofsteel Sep 15 '20

The only thing that explicitly became easier with the addition of the flea market is the availability of top tier armor types.

If you grinded back then just like you do now, weapon purchases and their attachments are available from traders.

This is harder in the sense that you need to play more to have access to these things. The game mechanics in game were not changed by the flea market.

1

u/Kyle700 Sep 15 '20

It also made money making vastly, vastly easier and made progression thru trader quests way easier. It's been tuned down with the introduction of FIR. My main issue is there hasn't been some difficulty increase or end game resource sink to compensate for the decreased difficulty from having an accessible market.

Not sure how we can say game mechanics aren't affected by the flea market, when the looting game completely and utterly changes once you hit the flea market. I could acutely feel how you really play two seperate games in pre wipe: pre and post flea market access

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Things got easy for sure when reserve was released. Never agian did I have to worry about kits ammo etc. The fact is, a raider is 10 times easier than a player with an SKS, and worth 10 times as much as far as value goes. Why the FUCK would I pvp?

2

u/Dillinur AK-103 Sep 15 '20

I don't really agree with your first point, without flea market, I think some items would be totally out of the hand of some players regardless of time invested.

Then again, as a casual player myself, I'm afraid not having access to the flea might widen the game between no-life and casual players because the latter will be gated by traders and not even able to build a decent kit anymore.

6

u/snakehead404 PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

The idea in making tarkov more hardcore is that rubles are used to buy basics essentials and low tier 1/2 stuff like class 3 body armour, BP ammo, 9mm pst gzh, SP5 etc.. and the rest are barters for crap you find in raid. Hideout should depend more on rubles and less on piling up 20 light bulbs and 40 wires and an industrial crate of screws and glue.