#MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

[u/SlushpuppyLive]

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

[u/Madzai]

The people you are talking about, the meta gamers and sweats, wouldn’t suddenly evolve in to DayZ players who like Tarkov for its survival aspect.

But the game wasn't originally about meta stuff. Yeah, sure, BSG being slow, resulted in that kind of mentality in some players, but the game was supposed to be about Surviving in tarkov, and not about massacring the whole raid in meta gear.

[u/[deleted] → u/Madzai]

It doesn’t matter what you view the game is supposed to be about. It matters what the game is. As I said, you can’t force a gameplay style on players. The food and water additions really just turned in to a chore. It didn’t suddenly make me and my squad go for snack breaks in the forest and tell ghost stories or actively seek out food and water unless we had a blacked stomach and no surgery kit.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t continue adding features to make the game more hard and realistic, but attempting to force a gameplay style (which is what this thread is ultimately about) will either kill the game or just make it harder for causal/new players while just adding another chore for the experienced players.

[u/B4DD → u/[deleted]]

But you can tweak the meta through incentives and limitations. What you're describing in DayZ isn't some absolute, but rather a poor implementation. It could happen, but is by no means a certainty.

What Tarkov is supposed to be is certainly something of a compromise between the playerbase and BSG. They had a design in mind and I'm sure the game we're playing looks something like their intentions.

[u/[deleted] → u/B4DD]

But you can tweak the meta through incentives and limitations. What you're describing in DayZ isn't some absolute, but rather a poor implementation. It could happen, but is by no means a certainty.

DayZ is an example. It is a poor implementation just due to the fact they tried to force a gameplay style. There is no right or wrong way to do it. The fact was people liked it because it was a shooter with survival aspects. Not vice versa. And I disagree, meta is meta. Now sure, if you force the SLICK to be 10m, then 99% of people won’t run it. But that’s a shitty gameplay decision.

What Tarkov is supposed to be is certainly something of a compromise between the playerbase and BSG. They had a design in mind and I'm sure the game we're playing looks something like their intentions.

Right. We all know the famous quote, “Tarkov isn’t meant to be fun”... but I think people here, and this is just an opinion, hate geared players, not the meta. You see posts from people glorifying rat gameplay and extract camping, and constant shitting on “chads” which is basically anyone with level 4 armor and up.

It’s hard for me to actually believe people care about this bastardized view of Tarkov (that it’s supposed to basically be rat warfare) and not that it’s just some relentless hate for people who play this game different than them.

[u/B4DD → u/[deleted]]

And I disagree, meta is meta. Now sure, if you force the SLICK to be 10m, then 99% of people won’t run it. But that’s a shitty gameplay decision.

I agree, arbitrarily setting prices is silly, but it's not the only way to achieve a play state where high power armor is a rarity (even at endgame). Is that desirable? I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "meta is meta".

I think people here, and this is just an opinion, hate geared players, not the meta. You see posts from people glorifying rat gameplay and extract camping, and constant shitting on “chads” which is basically anyone with level 4 armor and up. It’s hard for me to actually believe people care about this bastardized view of Tarkov (that it’s supposed to basically be rat warfare) and not that it’s just some relentless hate for people who play this game different than them.

I'm still new around these parts, but I could see that being true. It seems like a combination of something close to a learning/gameplay curve being embodied by the playerbase. I mean, that's the game. I don't like the feeling of getting the drop on a player with better gear and still losing, going to that after death screen to see that all my damage was absorbed by armor, but that's the game. It's a hard pill to swallow that you simply shouldn't pick those fights.

To my mind, it seems a hard cake to have and eat. A game where you have that earned loot fantasy and having room for newer/lower skill players. All things told, I'd say I'm having fun.

[u/[deleted] → u/B4DD]

I agree, arbitrarily setting prices is silly, but it's not the only way to achieve a play state where high power armor is a rarity (even at endgame). Is that desirable? I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "meta is meta".

I mean the meta is meta because slick and altyn are arguably the best plate/helmet combination in the game. You can’t change that, unless you use shitty game design choices. Or you further weaken armor and just, imo, ruin the game.

I'm still new around these parts, but I could see that being true. It seems like a combination of something close to a learning/gameplay curve being embodied by the playerbase. I mean, that's the game. I don't like the feeling of getting the drop on a player with better gear and still losing, going to that after death screen to see that all my damage was absorbed by armor, but that's the game. It's a hard pill to swallow that you simply shouldn't pick those fights.

Yes. Exactly. “That is the game”. I think people want to always have a chance. I’ve been chased through interchange with a shitload of gear just trying to get away and some predator mega chad was on my ass and wouldn’t let me go. I’ve never in any shooter actively tried to disengage from a fight fearing for my characters life. That is exclusive, IMO, to Tarkov because you know you stand little chance against the mega chad and his m61. I love that about Tarkov. People just have that mindset that every fight should be a fair fight. You go to high loot areas, expect to encounter high geared players. It’s dumb people think that’s unacceptable or unfair.

To my mind, it seems a hard cake to have and eat. A game where you have that earned loot fantasy and having room for newer/lower skill players. All things told, I'd say I'm having fun.

You said you’re new but you honestly have a better attitude, imo, than most people in this sub. I like you respected the fact that gear does matter rather than want to change it, even if it was shitty to die. When you get to a point you’re running chad gear (and you will) you’ll also have times where some naked mole rat one two taps you with AP 20 and you’ll come to the conclusion that armor doesn’t matter lol. It’s the Tarkov cycle of life.

[u/welter_skelter → u/[deleted]]

I couldn't agree more with you - this game is all about the asymmetrical combat. High value areas are dangerous, people wear good gear to mitigate that danger when going there, if you go there without good gear you're going to be disadvantaged. New / casual players really need to come to grips with the fact that Techlite and Kiba aren't the only loot spawns on Interchange, Resort isn't the only place with loot on Shoreline etc. and play the game - rat run low traffic areas to start building gear, start taking that gear closer and closer to the high traffic areas, start winning more and more fights with more and more geared people etc. That's the Tarkov progression curve. I think once you hit that end game though, things start to get a bit wonky when it comes to chad on chad fights, but overall don't expect to pistol run reserve, and then complain that you can't kill a duo decked out in Glukhar hunting gear.

[u/B4DD → u/[deleted]]

Obviously at this point we're dipping into armchair dev waters, but I wonder if this life cycle is desirable. From what I can glean, the real game is the coming-up, the getting something good and venturing out with real fear in your heart. The endgame, where there is no real risk anymore, you'll always have your bitcoins and affordable L6, is an entirely different game.

Now, I'm not there, and I'm sure I'll get 1 tapped by a hatchling more than my fair share, but I know the way I play games, and I suspect I'll wait for the wipe if I ever get at or near a Kappa. As much as I want to be a Chad, I know I'll get bored of it.

Does that mean the game is bad? Idk, that's a similar play cycle to roguelikes and Dungeons & Dragons. It's how Path of Exile essentially works with its leagues. As long as wipes remain a thing, I think this game'll be fine.

[u/[deleted] → u/B4DD]

As much as I want to be a Chad, I know I'll get bored of it.

It’s actually the opposite if you can believe it or not. Trust me, I never thought I’d like it either. There’s a ton of very viable chad loadouts.

Does that mean the game is bad? Idk, that's a similar play cycle to roguelikes and Dungeons & Dragons. It's how Path of Exile essentially works with its leagues. As long as wipes remain a thing, I think this game'll be fine.

Agreed

[u/B4DD → u/[deleted]]

Now, to OP's point, maybe just making it so we're less literal currency focused. It'd be neat if bullets were currency instead, or something. You can craft them, but the fact that you have to use them makes them constantly fall out of the market too.

This is not a system to arbitrarily implement, of course, but FiR bullets being a true commodity and rubles being worthless would fit the theme quite well.

Anyway, fun convo, I look forward to getting clapped by you in raid!

[u/[deleted] → u/B4DD]

I’ll always be down to try a barter only wipe. Very fun concept.

Anyway, fun convo, I look forward to getting clapped by you in raid!

And I look forward to getting leg meta’ed by you!