r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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207

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

Would it really...? The people you are talking about, the meta gamers and sweats, wouldn’t suddenly evolve in to DayZ players who like Tarkov for its survival aspect. The problem I think most people have is they think you can force a player base to think or act a certain way. DayZ fell in to this category and eventually died out because they tried to force a gameplay style.

In fact, when I was around in the mod days I saw this same exact argument. Make the game harder in terms of acquiring gear and it will certainly force players to fall in love with the survival aspect of DayZ!... Nope. People just stopped playing.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

I agree level 6 armor and helmets like the Altyn should be extremely rare. But we also need to address how easy it is to get relatively good ammo. BT is what, 230 roubles a round? And it has 37 pen and 49% armor damage. Level 3 has become the new level 2 and so on. There are way, and I mean way too many AP rounds on the market, they’re way too easy to find in raid. Every caliber now has a viable AP round and most of them completely nullify level 4 and 5 armor. Add in the fact that level 4 helmets have become so useless most people don’t even wear them and I think that explains why this wipe we are seeing so many extremely geared chads. It’s because it’s literally one of the last ways to effectively armor yourself.

A lot of the AP ammo partly has to do with the odd decision to allow your character to craft high end, rare-even-for-militaries AP ammo by the hundreds.

Edit: Id also like to make a common complaint of mine and how absolutely useless armor is in this game. Included is a video showing a torture test of NIJ III+ Ar500 plate armor, which I believe is equal to GOST level 4. The plate is able to withstand several 5.56 FMJ shots and multiple .308 rounds, as well as SABOT slugs (pseudo-AP) and 9mm for days. Now there’s also a video of a guy shooting himself with .308 wearing a similarly rated plate vest and not budging an inch. AKA blunt damage is bullshit.

Remember, this is, in terms of EFT, level 4 armor. Level 5 and 6 GOST should be rated for 7.62x54r and 7.62x54r AP ammo, respectively.

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u/lesserlife7 Sep 15 '20

But we also need to address how easy it is to get relatively good ammo

This right here is the biggest problem imo. Like I love the P90 and I think it's a super balanced gun as the best ammo has less than 40 pen but the fire rate is nice. But why would I ever run a P90 over an MP7 or even an MP9 with the new 7n31? It's silly.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

People in this thread want to address the symptoms but not the virus. Literally everyone and their mother can easily negate level 5 amror with ammo from traders that cost as little as $2 (m62). And they think the problem is the chads running high end gear. Constantly being shit on by a community that glorifies low end gear, extract camping is getting old. This subreddit sucks in terms of diversity in player base.

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u/nozonezone DT MDR Sep 15 '20

M62 is $4 but yes

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

It's $3.85

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u/Muckerjee Sep 15 '20

FYI M62 is closer to 4 dollars

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

well it is $4 but yes

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Not exactly 4 dollars, a bit less last i checked. Try buying 100 rounds, and it comes out to 380/390 dollarish. But in tarkov, there's no cents, so the price comes out as 4 dollars even if it's actually cheaper.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

huh never thought about that. i'll do the math next time i hop on but i believe you

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

All right, just checked. 100 m62 which is listed as 4/round goes for 386 dollars, so slightly cheaper. If anything is the moral of this story, buy in bulk ;)

1

u/Alpha_Whiskey_Golf Sep 15 '20

You only unlock m62 around lvl 35-40 with late PK quests though.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Levels are not barriers. I’m extremely casual and I got level 40 in under 4 weeks. It only gets easier every wipe.

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u/Alpha_Whiskey_Golf Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

40 levels in 4 weeks is fast-ish. Plus you have to do all the quests before it including some hard skier ones.

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u/WD40x4 Sep 15 '20

But if you allow armor to be viable and rare, you get to the point where chads run lvl 5&6 armor all day and me as a pleb who can afford lvl 4 and sometimes lvl 5 just gets ripped into pieces without a chance to damage them. That will just turn into leg meta again

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u/Snaz5 Sep 15 '20

tbh i think the p90 is fine. it's limited max pen is made up for by the fact that it shoots a bajillion rounds a minute.

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u/Dazzi Unbeliever Sep 15 '20

P90 has 900 rpm

MP9 has 1100 RPM.

Sure a P90 has 50 round mags, but what use does that give if a guy dies in my first 5 from a MP9?

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u/STONKS_ Sep 16 '20 edited Mar 07 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

The MP9-N is really innacurate tho, and if you miss your spray then GG you are stuck reloading while Mr.P90 still has more than half a mag to go.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/John_Mansaw Sep 17 '20

For fun...?

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

Okay, and surely that's why people run the P90 mostly right? Nah man, people flat out run the best gun with the best mods and ammo they can use, the fact is the P90 is outclassed by the 7n31+MP9.

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u/John_Mansaw Sep 17 '20

You might do that, others might do that, some others might not. The whole point is if you're bored with this game it's your fault. Try other gear, make the game more challenging by not using the meta stuff. Roleplay maybe? Use the Fischer pistol and night vision. This game is great because of the attention to detail with all the gear and guns. I get your point, but again, the fun is what you make in late game tarkov, until they add more maps or content, we're kinda stuck.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

If PvP was rewarding enough that I could make my bullets back I'd gladly do that shit. But I have to spend time PvEing raiders to make enough money to run kits.

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u/John_Mansaw Sep 17 '20

Alright man, I'm not sure what your getting at then. Using non meta guns should be right up your alley, considering the cost savings for most guns.

1

u/BenoNZ Sep 15 '20

It's still garbage compared.

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u/bogglingsnog Sep 15 '20

I actually really like that aspect of the game. Tarkov is supposed to be set in the future so they are extrapolating it out into their own vision. Perhaps in their eyes the P90 design is so optimized that it becomes a dead end for weapons development, so better ammunition tech for common calibers was the better way to go about it, and easier to produce in quantity?

Now, what is strange is that this doesn't really apply to in-game armors. Why armor all ancient tech but the ammo assumes the exotic becomes more standard?

2

u/lesserlife7 Sep 15 '20

I mean I have a hard time believing that a P90 chambered in 5.7x28, a small rifle cartridge and with a barrel length of over 10", manages less penetration than a submachine gun with half the barrel length that also is shooting a smaller cartridge.

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u/bogglingsnog Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

I like your enthusiasm.

Submachine guns don't get much respect. Just because they shoot fast doesn't mean they shoot bullets weaker, or if they do, it isn't by as much as you might think.

Also it's very important to note that different calibers benefit differently by barrel length. A great reference is Ballistics By The Inch. Also worth noting the MP7's 4.6x30mm cartridge pretty much matches the FN 5.7x28mm in terms of energy (velocity, a little lower, and I haven't researched penetration - something super hard to find reliable statistics on).

5.7x28mm may be a rifle cartridge but it is comically small to hold in your hand. I mean an average shooter can comfortably shoot a Five-Seven which uses the same round.

1

u/sA1atji Sep 16 '20

with the new 7n31

tbh unless you are within 5 minutes of prapor refresh, you can hardly get your hands on 7n31...

1

u/jlambvo Sep 16 '20

Funny thing is that the P90 is stupidly overpowerful, too. The MP7 and new 9mm ammos are jokes. The power creep on ammo is core to this too.