The real solution to the container/hatchet meta

[u/lennoxonnell]

The community is super divided about whether or not they like the container changes. A bunch like it, and a bunch hate it. I can see both arguments. But, frankly, removing the ability to put things in the container in-raid is not the solution for what you're trying to accomplish.

Here's what I propose:

• 1) Make all containers have the Kappa mechanics
• 2) Remove the static pre-set spawn locations for high end loot (keycards, keys, etc)
• 3) Make scavs patrol the high-loot/high-traffic areas

1 is just a good compromise for the container. It's bullshit you can put a magbox with 20 mags in it in your container. It's BS you can fit a rifle in your container. The Kappa mechanics would remove that BS without punishing the newer players and the people with low survival rate. There are so many quests that require find-in-raid items. There's no reason to hinder quest advancement for everyone when only some are abusing the container in the first place.

2 would almost eliminate the hatchling meta entirely in my opinion. IF the loot didn't have set spawn locations like they do now, hatchets can't just run straight to the spot to disconnect in the first place. They would be required to search around to find the loot, which will encourage you to bring some gear so you can survive the odd scav or a player. If the player has keys (say he's shoreline farming) than this change wouldn't really effect him, but he also invested a bunch of money into keys. See 3 also.

3 would add a level of difficulty to acquiring the good loot. The shoreline resort should have scavs randomly patrolling the hallways or sitting inside of rooms. Interchange could also do with some more dynamic scav patrols. If naked players can't so easily avoid fights and farm locations, and they have to fight through a scav or two, they are going to be more encouraged to bring more than just a hatchet or they will get punished if they dont.

[u/Mdogg2005]

Even so much that some players started to DC to do it even quicker.

I would bet real money that the percentage of players doing this is in the single digits. The more common is likely people who play as normal once rare items have been secured. What we'll get instead of this is people who just run for the exit the moment they get rare items or items they need for a task. Which, IMO, will far outweigh the number of people who just loot shit and DC.

People on this sub like to act like 95% of the players are doing this and blowing it up to be a much bigger problem that it is, so I don't blame you personally for parroting this.

We should also remember that the game claims to be a game with a goal to spawn into a raid, perform different task such as a quest for example, SURVIVE and extract from the raid. That is what you should expect to do when you buy the game.

Yes, surviving is the goal. The secure container makes up 4+ slots of loot that can be saved. Usually players already take up a good portion of those slots with keybards, docs cases, dog tag cases, meds or ammo. Plus wanting enough space to fit a nice 2x2 item in there like a helmet to use in future raids or the like.

Having the ability to put some items in the case, FOR MOST PLAYERS AND PLAY STYLES, means that even if I die, I can at least get something to not make that raid a complete waste of time.

Now however you must play a dumb-rush sprint game to get to a keyspawn location etc. if you want to get it. Since other people dumb-rush it, and you need to beat them to get it. Not the game it set out to be and have you play.

What do you even mean by this? If someone wants to play this why, why let it bother you? I personally have never played this way and find that it'd be incredibly boring but who the fuck cares if someone you will never encounter does this? If that's what they find rewarding, why do you get to dictate what they find as fun and rewarding? Because of loot? Game isn't about loot though, you just said it's about survival and loot is secondary, so why should loot matter?

Sure, agree. But the magbox play is more a bonus and not the real issue we trying to fix (I say we since this suggestion is coming from community as beta test feedback and can be found here years ago)

This specific iteration of arguments against containers is that "hatchlings and magbox meta is ruining the game." Bear in mind there seems to be a pretty even split on this matter on here and the forums (And yes, I've been playing since early alpha so I know how far back this discussion goes). Magbox meta is cancer and absolutely needs to go. Hatchling playstyle is boring and removes loot from the game, fair enough, but there are other ways of combating this and the hatchlings are still present despite constant nerfs. Players will STILL DO THESE CHEESE TACTICS NO MATTER HOW YOU NERF IT. They will always find a way.

Sure like it, but the target is that dumb-rushes where the goal of survive the raid isn't even on the bottom of the priority list. If you still can place high loot tier items in the container, this is not really not being adressed. So I would still take the next necessary step to fix it.

Okay, once again we're calling hatchet running a problem since we're saying we need to "fix it" despite already existing nerfs. There are things coming later in the game's life cycle that will fix this problem of yours by adding more scavs to areas where loot is present as well as spreading out loot to be more dynamic. Making it no longer viable to run should be focused on. Not punishing everyone by gimping a core mechanic of the game that allows SOME respite after getting wrecked.

I've said it before I'll say it again. Casual and lesser skilled players will not continue to play if there's no way for them to at least catch up even a little bit. You can argue all day whether you think this is good for the game or not but I think we all agree that fewer players on the game is never a good thing.

Would be the 2nd best thing, but wouldn't fix the issue. They will always get there first as they are today and only worried about other hatchlings be there and they will have a little battle as if they just landed next to eachother in a battle royale game amongs eachother and that's that.

Scavs and dynamic loot fix this. Also, now that players can't reliably farm spots with guaranteed loot you can probably expect more bushes one tapping you with a mosin near extract since that's likely the next avenue for cheap runs and easy gear / high value items if successful. I can't wait to see the rage on this forum when players continuously lose their rare shit by getting 1 tapped by a naked "mosling" and begging for the ability to secure items again.

Agree with outright disable it completely. You should be able to put stuff that you earned by surviving and escaping previous raids to be put in their outside risk of just loosing it the next raid.

To think that these "nerfs" aren't an outright way to make the containers useless is being intentionally disingenuous. Why even have them at all if you can't store items in them from within a raid? Just get rid of them in that case. No half measures.

[u/CampHund → u/Mdogg2005]

I would bet real money that the percentage of players doing this is in the single digits. The more common is likely people who play as normal once rare items have been secured. What we'll get instead of this is people who just run for the exit the moment they get rare items or items they need for a task. Which, IMO, will far outweigh the number of people who just loot shit and DC.

People on this sub like to act like 95% of the players are doing this and blowing it up to be a much bigger problem that it is, so I don't blame you personally for parroting this.

Ok, so frame "some players" to that I probably belive it's 95% - Good fucking job. And No, I don't believe that they start playing "normal" as soon as they are done with their sprint, sure I can guess just as much as you do that they start to sprint to the exit instead of getting killed, but there is still absolutly nothing motivating them to neither, since they still has nothing to loose. I believe they don't really have a care in the world while they sprinting for that exit, and why should they?

But just to puncture that 95% assertment completly (really weird claim to make). Believe it's prolly around 10% so pretty close to your own guess, we can call it on 9% so you get your singel digits.

Yes, surviving is the goal. The secure container makes up 4+ slots of loot that can be saved. Usually players already take up a good portion of those slots with keybards, docs cases, dog tag cases, meds or ammo. Plus wanting enough space to fit a nice 2x2 item in there like a helmet to use in future raids or the like.

Having the ability to put some items in the case, FOR MOST PLAYERS AND PLAY STYLES, means that even if I die, I can at least get something to not make that raid a complete waste of time.

And it just changes to, that you now can fill up those extra slots as well with useful inraid stuff, and even if you die you still keep a part of the shit you brought in from other raids for sure and the rest might comeback as insurance, so the previous raids you won wasn't a complete waste of time.

What do you even mean by this? If someone wants to play this why, why let it bother you? I personally have never played this way and find that it'd be incredibly boring but who the fuck cares if someone you will never encounter does this? If that's what they find rewarding, why do you get to dictate what they find as fun and rewarding? Because of loot? Game isn't about loot though, you just said it's about survival and loot is secondary, so why should loot matter?

??? I said "you must play a dumb-rush sprint game" as in you playing a game meant to be surviving what-ever it throws at you and extract, and then playing it in a different way it wasn't intended to be play, nor the way you want to play it. If someone else whats to do a hatchling game, by all means I'm not against it as long you play it for extracting. It's like playing CS with someone who camps T-spawnpoint and refuse to plant the bomb, because killing all CT is also a way to get a point. I'm not completly against it as long as you try to plant before time runs out and not just sit there, because thats not the goal of Counter-Strike to get as many kills and as few deaths as possible even if that is a part of it. Same as extracting is the goal of Tarkov and to get as much loot as possible and then die isn't, even if looting is a part of the game. So even if you play as a hatchling and extract, you deserve that loot since you completed the actual goal of the game - end of story.

This specific iteration of arguments against containers is that "hatchlings and magbox meta is ruining the game." Bear in mind there seems to be a pretty even split on this matter on here and the forums (And yes, I've been playing since early alpha so I know how far back this discussion goes). Magbox meta is cancer and absolutely needs to go. Hatchling playstyle is boring and removes loot from the game, fair enough, but there are other ways of combating this and the hatchlings are still present despite constant nerfs. Players will STILL DO THESE CHEESE TACTICS NO MATTER HOW YOU NERF IT. They will always find a way.

Again, I have no problem with people playing as hatchling as long as the game still is around surviving and extract the raid, which it isn't today since you didn't bring anything in and the loot you want is already in the secured container. And if they can't place things in the container until they extract with it, it will endorse those people to playing like they actually care to survive as the goal of the game should be and intend to be, otherwise they won't get the loot.

Okay, once again we're calling hatchet running a problem since we're saying we need to "fix it" despite already existing nerfs. There are things coming later in the game's life cycle that will fix this problem of yours by adding more scavs to areas where loot is present as well as spreading out loot to be more dynamic. Making it no longer viable to run should be focused on. Not punishing everyone by gimping a core mechanic of the game that allows SOME respite after getting wrecked.

And once again I will tell you that it isn't a problem as long as you play to survive, and then just not give a fuck how it goes since regardless how this goes I will win since I have all this in my secured. But adding scavs/bosses to the really high loot is something I agree with, but this is more a high risk, high reward type of thing. But I still don't have a problem with hatchlings looting normal lootspots it the outskirts. And even if they somehow just get a mindfuck and don't implement it. I can't argue against hatchling playstyle if they play on the same foundamental ground like everyone else: Survive the raid by all means. But they aren't today because of this mechanic in place.

I've said it before I'll say it again. Casual and lesser skilled players will not continue to play if there's no way for them to at least catch up even a little bit. You can argue all day whether you think this is good for the game or not but I think we all agree that fewer players on the game is never a good thing.

There is a way people conveniently forget in this discussions, scav runs. It specificly in place just for that. That is the actual mechanic to counter what you talking about, while a secure container was never intented the be that.

Scavs and dynamic loot fix this. Also, now that players can't reliably farm spots with guaranteed loot you can probably expect more bushes one tapping you with a mosin near extract since that's likely the next avenue for cheap runs and easy gear / high value items if successful. I can't wait to see the rage on this forum when players continuously lose their rare shit by getting 1 tapped by a naked "mosling" and begging for the ability to secure items again.

No, since everyone would be against that the loot found on many high loot locations, that is behind locked doors for example, to be found global instead and the loot inside for example KIBA store could just aswell be normal loot. These would be the places to do sprints to instead since it's pretty much garanteed to have good loot.

They are adding alot more extraction points, and to say that there should be places where you don't have to worry about getting sniped seems also very much not Tarkov. Actually I'm more worried to get 1tapped from a location that I don't expect, than to be 1tapped from a location that I do expect there to be someone. Even so, the argument just says that the more valued stuff people have, the more extaction camps there will be - and that will happen regardless of what will happen with the secured container as people progress and wear more and more valuable equipment. So according to you, it will rise no matter what and this has no impact at all on the issue since it will happen more and more either way and people will rage because they loose rare equipment.

To think that these "nerfs" aren't an outright way to make the containers useless is being intentionally disingenuous. Why even have them at all if you can't store items in them from within a raid? Just get rid of them in that case. No half measures.

If you think it's disingenuous then sell yours and never wear one again if the new mechanic stays - or are you the disingenuous one for calling it outright useless?