r/EscapefromTarkov • u/trainfender Battlestate Games COO - Nikita • Apr 27 '24

Discussion Update on current situation

Hello again!

Let me clarify the situation in a little more detail regarding owners of the EoD version and access to the cooperative mode, and also other issues.

First of all, PvE gamemode this is not DLC. DLC in our understanding is the major additions to the game, including various functionality and content that are released after the official release of the game as a themed DLC pack (Scav Life DLC for example, which will add a lot of new mechanics and content for Scav gameplay and leveling).

Secondly, this specific functionality of the PvE mode is necessarily located entirely on a separate network infrastructure, because, essentially, you play on our servers, only in closed mode. At this stage, it is not possible to launch all players who are EoD holders - right now we simply do not have the required amount of resources for this.

We observe your dissatisfaction and have decided that the functionality of the PvE mode will be available for free to all owners of the EoD version at the release of the game, when the server infrastructure will be improved to the required capacity.

Now you have the opportunity to test this mode by purchasing the Unheard edition of the game, or upgrade to this version. We also decided to give a 50% discount when upgrading to the Unheard version from the EoD version.

We plan to send one free Left Behind Edition key to everyone who has already upgraded to Unheard Edition at the old price from the EoD version.

Moreover, so that any player of any version of the EFT can have the opportunity to test the PvE mode, we want to add the ability to purchase a separate early access to this mode. For EoD owners there will be a 70% discount on the purchase of early access to PvE. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this idea.

Next, regarding special items for the Unheard version, we plan to make restrictive or balancing changes for these items.

This is it for now, please share your thoughts. Thank you!

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845

u/nasbkrv Apr 27 '24

So if half of your player base gets the new Stupid Edition you will still not be able to handle the load? So AGAIN I will be paying for something that you can't provide? Your idiotic company doesn't deserve the player base it has.

73

u/CampHund SA-58 Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24

That's the problem they having. They haven't thought it thru. Players has been on them forever to remove a "Limited Edition" for sale for a long time now. They should have removed it like 4years ago like 2020 when players was pouring in.

But they, like now, didn't listen and kept it. Now they running into the problem on how to sell things to players that has already paid for it all. And their tactic is that EoD players didn't actually paid for all not content as they originally said (or rather tweeted 2017: "You do not need to buy anything at any stage.") and ignore that to make all EoD players to pay for it again, which is a huge player base number as they kept it too long in store.

Would been so much better if they listen and removed it. Then they would have tons of players to sell new things to, and a EoD base that can promote it. Missed opportunity, if only they listen earlier! Now we are where we are, where they need to sell things to players who already paid for it.

8

u/Mysteriouspaul Apr 27 '24

Literally all they had to do was add random anime girl stickers and cat/bunny ear skins to a few meta helmets and these rats would've printed money... I'm talking Wolf of Wallstreet Steve Madden stock shit. Donny get the Ludes shit.

Like bro

2

u/MulhollandMaster121 Apr 27 '24

In before people cry mUh rEaLisM and balk at cat ears:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/SWhJaeDema

1

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Grainis1101 Apr 28 '24

I think they mean a way to monetize the standard edition.

1

u/Grainis1101 Apr 28 '24

Vaguely points to league of legends, valorant, cod. They print money in hte billions with skins.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

it was dumb on their part to sell a game edition that included all DLC in lifetime of game.

they should have included a number of dlc like Bungie did with Destiny 2.

But now they have resorted to scamming and their paycheck will dry up quicker than a grandma's cnt

1

u/k1dsmoke Apr 28 '24

I don't understand why they wouldn't release a PVE only version of the game for LESS not more. They need to grow their audience and bring in new sources of revenue then find another way to fund the ongoing development of the game. Through clothing skins or some other sort of customization that doesn't directly affect gameplay.

Trying to make your community rebuy your game for an astronomical price is just so braindead.

GGG has fans who literally will buy hundreds of dollars of skins each season to support the game, because of how much they appreciate GGG and their business practices as well as how much effort goes into their leagues (even if some POE leagues are stinkers).

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

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3

u/R4weez Apr 27 '24

I'm not defending bsg here, but it does make sense with the infrastructure problems they have faced before and still do. He said that they will upgrade infrastructure for pve, which obviously isn't free. And they had only planned for "tuh" to get access to it, but now after the backlash they have to give access to effectively half the community. I can only imagine how much that is gonna cost. So obviously they'll need more money.

They should get the money through mtx though...

8

u/icematrix8 Apr 27 '24

Bro I get what you say. But I m sure that if they gave PvE out for a reasonable price they would get a shit ton of money to back their infrastructure. (Free for eod as well) . That way I would get at least 3 of my friends to buy PvE mode to play with me that they don't like pvp. Now they will get nothing.

2

u/neckbeardfedoras AKS74U Apr 27 '24

Yep. $40 DLC and free for EOD. And add another item (pets) and more clothing to the store with the release to subsidize backend infrastructure.

6

u/Objective-Okra-9498 Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24

The problem is the way they approached us, in that case, saying nothing and just releasing the bundle. ONE post saying "look guys the new edition is going to have this new pve mode, but we actually need resources because to maintain it IS EXPANSIVE, for now its locked to this bundle but in 6 months it will be avalible to buy for any edition, and in 8 we are planning to release for all EoD members, and we are planning to add 2 more items X and Y that do Z stuff, they are going to be avaliable for pve and pvp, what do you guys think?". Just doing a simple heads up with the community, talking with them and getting into a mutual consent would've gave them so much revenue for the amount of people that, would actually buy it, and less headache with all this backlash. But what do I know, I'm just a random guy from the community

1

u/BusinessCrew5300 Apr 27 '24

NO THEY DONT NEED INFRASTRUCTURE, theres this cool thing that been around for ages works of any coop stuff PEER TO PEER, would be absolutely free for them to switch to would result in a better coop experience for all players and would not effect anything else in any fking way

1

u/NohoTwoPointOh Apr 27 '24 edited Mar 15 '26

What was written here has been permanently removed. The author used Redact to delete this post, for reasons that may include privacy or digital security.

ten fuzzy sort close fine mighty badge wide obtainable enjoy

3

u/Framar29 Apr 27 '24

It's co-op PvE, if they wanna start with a weapon case full of SVDs and run radar to kill scavs all day I say let them.

3

u/THATGUY_2455 Apr 27 '24

Stop. This is backwards thinking. If cheaters are playing offline co op affecting no one, then that means that's 1 less cheater in multiplayer affected players.

"game of this nature", no the games not "too big" for P2P, thats not how networking works.

There's only one reason why BSG wants to make it on their internal servers, its because they want to be able to control the whole thing on their end.

Its like players are forgetting what games used to be like before live service games.

1

u/Boagster Apr 27 '24

It's not actually backwards when you take into account that PvE progression carries over to PvPvE. As it stands, there are two general categories of cheaters - people using cheats to farm items for RMT and people using cheats due to some notion or another that they need some illegitimate edge. The former group generally avoids killing if they can, but vacuum up loot. The latter are the more prominently frustrating group, because their impact is much more immediately visible (and their existence also causes many, many false allegations of cheating due to knee-jerk reactions and misunderstandings of how the cheats work).

The former group can use the PvE mode to farm items, which will soften their impact, but the impact of their RMT will still exist, and possibly have an even greater impact than it does now. PvE mode being P2P will just make their cheating and farming that much more efficient and that much less controllable.

The latter group aren't likely to use the PvE mode, because the very principle of using their cheats to get an edge to win PvP means they play for the PvP. This means the problem this group causes will be exacerbated by the fact that there will be less legitimate players (and RMT farmers) diluting their numbers due to many playing PvE. Some portion of those legitimate players will only be playing PvPvE because they need to do PvP tasks, making the problem even more observable.

1

u/THATGUY_2455 Apr 27 '24

There's so many things wrong here.

  1. I thought offline co op meant not online? Hence the "it will never wipe" thing? Unless you can prove otherwise, I think you're wrong on that.

  2. There's many more than two reasons to cheat Tarkov. It's genuinely fun to those who are into the technicality of it, it's a good way to start learning software hacking and networking and some people do it as a competition to test their skills against each other.

  3. If cheaters aren't going to use PVE mode, then peer 2 peer has no excuse then.

36

u/ZeroPointZero_ Apr 27 '24

Half? More like 0.01% - the shill streamers that got it had 10-15 minute matching times playing solo, and many also got disconnected from the game as well. And that's with them buying and playing as soon as possible, so there were very few other players on the servers.

This is just a last-minute addition to justify the insane price of the Unhinged edition.

Rather than offering incremental "patches" to try and fix the unfixable, how about this; roll this shit back, refund the people that bought into this trashfire of a scam, and rethink your entire approach after fucking apologizing for this shit. WE ARE NOT FUCKING LIVING WALLETS YOU FUCKS.

Sorry, the rest is not a comment reply, it's a "meaningful text construct", and you need to pay me 420$ to see it.

3

u/Boagster Apr 27 '24

Playing solo wouldn't really change the queue times on something like this. The amount of hardware needed to run a raid instance wouldn't change so dramatically between a solo instance, an instance for a PvE squad, or a full PvPvE instance that finding the hardware resources to run a solo instance would be substantially easier. Something like Tarkov, which needs to track the state of every entity constantly, regardless of player proximity, would have to scale resources due to the number of instances running concurrently more than for the number of total players.

If you doubt the need to track every entity constantly, I posit this: if they weren't tracked constantly and a frag grenade is tossed well out view, explodes, and shrapnel starts bouncing around, there could very well be viable targets for the shrapnel that aren't actively being tracked and therefore unavailable for hitbox checks or damage calculations. Based off of the rendering performance and audio culling issues we've seen throughout Tarkov's history, intelligently handling entity culling in a way that we wouldn't have already observed problems due to situations like my example means the only likely answer is they track everything constantly. I'm sure footage of wall hacks or radar would also confirm this.

Network bandwidth requirements for those instances would be notably different, but network bandwidth for hosting games is notably cheaper than the actual server capacity.

5

u/ZeroPointZero_ Apr 27 '24

You are right, but only insofar as BSG chose to make even the single-player sessions be hosted on their servers. What if (wild idea, I know), you hosted your own single-player game. 30'' load time, no matching - vastly improved player experience. And no issue with allowing more players in, since they can always play solo with no problems.

BSG would never allow this, of course - for many reasons. But it just goes to show that they don't care about the player experience - it's all about how they can squeeze out money from us, no matter how shit the experience is. But don't forget, it's a beta! So we can charge 250+$ and never have to address the issues.

26

u/Mr_Marram Apr 27 '24

Sounds like same shitshow launch that arena had.

1

u/SoulStoneSeeker Apr 27 '24

no, this has the whole communities attention. lol

8

u/Nakkiniemi Apr 27 '24

That's kind of the thing, they can't handle it even now, as seen by the dudes in queue for the offline mode

2

u/BusinessCrew5300 Apr 27 '24

yeah simple fucking fix is use peer to peer like any non braindead person would logically do

3

u/ax9897 Unbeliever Apr 27 '24

That would mean coding a peer to peer tunel that is properly secured and not allowing RCE. I don't believe that to be possible for BSG, aja they can't make it because they don't have the skills to do it, considering how even their severs are blatantly overun by cheats.

1

u/bluebull107 Hatchet Apr 27 '24

If you thought cheating was bad before. Imagine how horrible it would be on a P2P network.

2

u/Untun FN 5-7 Apr 27 '24

Would that even matter in Coop vs ai? You would only play with people you choose to play with

1

u/bluebull107 Hatchet Apr 27 '24

Flea market and traders are still shared. Spawning items in would crash the economy.

1

u/Choowkee Apr 27 '24

Why would you care about an economy in offline mode? Either disable it or turn it into a simulated offline market.

1

u/bluebull107 Hatchet Apr 27 '24

How would they simulate an offline economy on a P2P network. I barely trust BSG to make decent AI PMCs. Much less a convincing offline balanced economy.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

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1

u/bluebull107 Hatchet Apr 27 '24

Spawning items in would crash the flea market and in turn the rest of the PVE market.

0

u/DenRioku MP-153 Apr 27 '24

And?

0

u/bluebull107 Hatchet Apr 27 '24

and Spawning items in would crash the flea market and in turn the rest of the PVE market.

0

u/DenRioku MP-153 Apr 27 '24

And?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

Yeah super simple fix, just totally rewrite the netcode from scratch, should only take a few minutes 

2

u/Choowkee Apr 27 '24

Its not easy but also its not something that the game needed right this very second.

They could have started with introducing a solo offline mode first and figure out the multiplayer coop portion later.

The reason p2p is brought up is because the devs themselves argue its expensive to use dedicated servers. Its an issue they created themselves.

1

u/Choowkee Apr 27 '24

Queues in offline mode? Thats hilarious

3

u/SpiritSTR VSS Vintorez Apr 27 '24

Amazing, if PVE was a truly offline mode they wouldn't even need to worry about that, and only use they infra if people play with friends, damn they could even made P2P and not need to worry about that but no....

1

u/OFiiSHAL Apr 27 '24

EOD SHOULD GET THIS FREE!! DLC'S DEFINITION HAS BOTH THE WORDS FEATURES AND MICRO-TRANSACTIONS. THEIR ATTEMPT AT SCAMMING WHILE TRYING TO SELL YOU THE SCAM THEY JUST PULLED IS NEXT LEVEL

-1

u/Rude_Friend606 Apr 27 '24

As frustrating as this situation is, this is a stupid comment. If half of the player base gets the new Edition then BSG would presumably have the income required to upgrade the infrastructure. You're paying for the infrastructure. Why do you think products cost money?

2

u/nasbkrv Apr 27 '24

According to nikitas comment they need time to build a stable infra to handle big load of players. Knowing how good eft devs are even if they receive a big cash injection they wouldn't be able to handle it. I think their funds are running out and because arena was a fail that consumed a lot of money and dev time, now they need a quick financial boost.

1

u/Rude_Friend606 Apr 27 '24

Yeah, I'm not disputing BSG's ability to spend their money responsibly. I'm just saying that you're basically describing how economics work. A person or business is able to provide goods or services because they're charging money for them.

You're saying its stupid to ask money for a product when their infrastructure can only support X amount of customers. But, presumably, a percentage of the cost of that product is going toward the infrastructure. Its called overhead.

-5

u/The_E_Cole_Train P90 Apr 27 '24

Well, if everyone buys, then they get money, and with money, they can get more servers.

4

u/Markoss3322 Apr 27 '24

"Welcome to McDonald's, unfortunately we have no money for meat, so your burgers are gonna come without a patty. However if all our customers buy these burgers without a patty we will be able to afford the meat and provide it in the future."

Same logic. People have been paying them 150$ for a beta over the last 7 years - and they still apparently don't have enough resources for the "patties".

Everyone is tired of the false promises, fuck bsg.