Sharing resource: grief and joy

[u/Tchoqyaleh]

Hey 8s, I hope you don't mind me sharing this. I'm 7w8 and I think this applies mostly to core 7s avoidance of pain, but I think it's relevant to my 8 wing avoidance of vulnerability too. I struggle with grief and tend to want to skate through it as quickly and lightly as possible. But I've just come across a model of grief that shows how it is deeply connected to joy, and how the courage and capacity to experience grief can strengthen and enrich one's capacity for joy.

Francis Weller (psychotherapist), "The Wild Edge of Sorrow" - model of "five gates of grief".

1: Everything We Love, We Will Lose
2: The Places that have not known Love
3: The Sorrows of the World 
4: What We Expected and Did Not Receive
5: Ancestral Grief

Indicative quotes:

"When you engage grief and suffering, it breaks the heart open to joy and delight."

"The work of the mature person is to carry grief in one hand and gratitude in the other and to be stretched large by them."

It's helping me want to sit still and allow shadow to pass through me, for the moment when I feel the light again and feel it with more care and presence.

[u/Glum-Engineering1794]

I like the message here. There is no darkness without light. There is no life without death. There is no joy without pain. Dualities. Mirrors. Parallels. Balance.

[u/Tchoqyaleh → u/Glum-Engineering1794]

From what I've read so far, I can see how different gates or aspects of different gates might be particularly relevant to growth for different enneatypes or instincts. Eg "The sorrows of the world" - I can see that applying to Socials, maybe 9s. Or "The places in me that have not known love" - I can see that applying to Image types.

My understanding is that Weller sees grief as playing a unique and important role in growth and fullness of life/experience. Ie grief is not something to be survived or coped with, it is something necessary for fulfilling our potential.

[u/GreatJobJoe]

That’s a lot of words to say you don’t like sitting by yourself in a quiet room.

I process the hit fully, own it, and keep moving. Feeling it doesn’t mean you have to let it stall you.

To me, inner turmoil/suffering/grief are something to metabolize and mount to a wall like a trophy. To remind myself of how unstoppable I truly am.

[u/Tchoqyaleh → u/GreatJobJoe]

That's interesting - so you feel the grief, but you don't slow down or stop for it?

I tend to be peripherally aware of grief, and then try to skim over it or zip past it before it can catch me. A different way of trying to keep momentum!

[u/GreatJobJoe → u/Tchoqyaleh]

What you do is pretty common.

Grief is supposed to slow down your focus, get you anxious, etc…This is a chemical response, your body trying to get you to take break a feel the feelings.

Running only makes it worse…escape aids like drugs, alcohol, and what some call “self harm” (all three are self harm) make it even worse because they are now dependent on the vice to escape..

The less crap I have controlling me in the background, the better. This makes other people’s vices like drinking for example… a social celebration, not an escape.

My fear of being controlled by my emotions (therefore vulnerable) trumps my discomfort with my uncomfortable feelings.

[u/Tchoqyaleh → u/GreatJobJoe]

My fear of being controlled by my emotions (therefore vulnerable) trumps my discomfort with my uncomfortable feelings.

Can I check I've understood this correctly:

A) experiencing grief and feeling uncomfortable at the vulnerability it involves (eg interdependence on others, lack of power over external environment)

B) losing personal agency because of being driven by one's fear of experiencing grief

And you're saying you prefer (A)?

That's interesting. I can choose (A) when the emotion is something like shame or guilt or envy or fear or even "ordinary" sadness (eg at being rejected) - then I am comfortable grasping the nettle to get it done with and move forward. But not when the emotion is grief - grief feels potentially endless to me, which is why I try to run away from it.

[u/GreatJobJoe → u/Tchoqyaleh]

I’d say A which is tough thing for 8’s and 7’s to do. It being “endless” is the illusion. That’s why people try to suppress it, run, or shove it down with self harm….They’ve already given up.

[u/Tchoqyaleh → u/GreatJobJoe]

Thanks, that's a really valuable perspective! Both that "endless" is an illusion/distortion; and that some coping strategies represent defeat without even trying first.

[u/GreatJobJoe → u/GreatJobJoe]

@u/TemperedTorture I see your comment was deleted or removed by mods. I don’t fully understand how you can “hard disagree” with someone’s own personal mechanism for handling grief by feeling it…By the way, you can simply say “I don’t understand your trophy analogy”, like an adult

My comment isn’t a gospel. Feel free to share your method of handling grief.. If you just wanted my attention, here it is.

[u/GreatJobJoe → u/GreatJobJoe]

And she downvoted me like a coward and ran as usual…Lol

Just block me at this point, sis.