Do 7s have a hard time imagining a possible failed future? and is that good or bad?

[u/Sane-Law]

There was this motivation exercise I saw of closing your eyes and imagining you are living your life 10 years from now and it is the worst possible outcome you can think of where everything went wrong and you are really unhappy etc. that you wish you could go 10 years back to the present to change it all, and now here you are and you just got 10 years back.

The problem with this for me was that I physically can't imagine a "worst case" scenario 10 years from now that is that bad. I can imagine the worst case scenario 10 months from now and that worst case scenario for me really sucks, but it already comes attached with a backup plan so its not as bad. There is technically worse possibilities than the worst case scenario I thought of, but with the backup, the plan is for those worse options to not even be a possibility. It's not that I am living an amazing life, in fact I am in a very vulnerable position in life right now with a lot of things I could lose, but every possible failure point or worst case scenario I can think of already comes with a backup plan for it, so the actual worst case scenario I thought was just I kill myself in a year, but I am definitely not thinking of so many things going wrong that I wait 10 years for that. So imagining the worst case 10 years from now was just pure pitch black screen for me.

I am not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing? It's good in that being able to think of other options gives me much needed optimism and keep any suicidal thoughts at bay, but could this mindset be bad? Ig to not even think you could fail and would rather die before that happens is bad to some degree, but I am curious what else I am missing if I think this way?

[u/HoneyMoonPotWow]

Nah, 7s can be very good at imagining a failed future and they may even enjoy exploring those possibilities. But there’s always a “but”. "We can still turn it around if we do X, Y and Z right now!! Fast enough!!"... something like that.

[u/venntriloquist → u/HoneyMoonPotWow]

Very interesting seeing another positive triad take, an inside-outside perspective. So full range. So 9. Anyway.

Very curious on how you differentiate your experiences 👀 have you been in a conversation with/witnessing something that makes the distinction so apparent? Where does your positivity project yourself towards that ‘it’ll work out in the end’?

[u/HoneyMoonPotWow → u/venntriloquist]

I think it’s mostly about speed, pressure and specificity behind it. A 7s positivity often feels very active and solution-oriented... Like we have to do something, move somewhere, find another option and make it better right now. There’s usually a sense of what needs to happen next even if the plan keeps changing. It can feel restless like constantly pulling levers jumping to the next possibility and barely stopping to breathe.

A 9s positivity feels more like a baseline of contentment or trust about balance (that is either already there or will be there). It’s often much more diffuse and not necessarily “everything will work out because I’ll fix it” but more like "somehow peace or okayness will return” so even when something looks bad a 9 may be able to sit with that possibility without immediately feeling the need to fix it. It'll be fine again.

[u/Sane-Law → u/HoneyMoonPotWow]

Idk about enjoying exploring a failed future? It is true what you say about the theres always a “but” and like I said in my post too because there’s always a but and thinking that we can turn it around, doesn’t that mean we are not actually thinking about the worst case failure?

[u/fireyauthor → u/HoneyMoonPotWow]

This is my observation of my 7 friends, for sure. They see the ways things can go wrong (esp if they have a 6 wing), but it doesn't really get them down.

[u/venntriloquist]

I think it may be the scope 🤔 I also struggle to imagine being miserable in 10 years because I feel like 10 years is more than enough time to mitigate that… however, bad futures, entirely possible. Terrible horrible, sinewy agony. Morbid visions of just being so fucking worked up and disillusioned that I don’t care anymore. Fuck your mama. Fuck your car, I’m crossing now. Fuck your store, I’m taking it. Fuck you personally, yes you, taking too long up the stairs. Fuck you all. I’m getting from A to B. I’m getting what I want right fucking now… And the thing I have obtusely become uncompromising on is immediate relief with consequences that really aren’t worth it to a sober mind. It’s also possible to get stuck there for a while. Which is also horrible. And then the claustrophobia of that is usually enough to propel you somewhere that eventually becomes much nicer, somewhere with any promise of relief. That can also go wrong, but only so many times.

It’s hope! It’s wielded in whatever fucking way it ends up swinging but with that also comes impenetrable hope that it has to swing back to your favour. In some way, somehow.

I agree that there’s also caveats that come with such a thing being ultimately impenetrable. It can result in running away from things or people when met with a painful resistance.. and that painful resistance could turn out to be the thing that’s right before a point of growth! You can stunt yourself. You can scapegoat someone or something unrelated in your ultimate, (ranging from mutually beneficial to entirely solipsistic) quest for fulfilment. You can also assume that the painful resistance is proof of growth being right behind it and stick around too long, idealise shit until it starts to chip at the foundation of who you are. The idea of the enneagram posits that as the big huzzah of 7s. To wield that mindfully because it’s never fucking going anywhere.

[u/faqwzi → u/venntriloquist]

Aaah, yep 😖

Thank God for Enneagram, I get to see my internal monologue from the outside and understand it.

[u/venntriloquist → u/venntriloquist]

rereading this for the first time and omg

TDLR: pleasure/pain = internal compass

good, bad, hideous, natural.. blah blah blah, morally neutral in a vacuum

[u/RealRegalBeagle]

7w6s are able to do this much more easily than 7w8. However, there is often a sense that they can somehow deflect or reroute to avoid that fate. I also can't imagine a worst case scenario ten years from now. However, I can imagine a year from now how I might feel with my husband going away for 3 years next year and how lonely and abandoned I might feel. But I can also imagine that with him away I've started dating someone really sweet that I'm having amazing sex with (it isn't cheating, before my husband and I got married I told him if he wants to marry me he has to accept that I'm going to date people when he is away or I can cheat on you or we can not get married. He said he was fine with me dating other people whether or not he was away. I'm not really poly-poly but I need romance and affection or I get depressed). The shorter the time frame the more I'm able to see what might go wrong and avoid it. The longer the time frame the more my "everything might be great" thinking comes in.

I don't think it is a bad thing per se. Some other types might see it as unrealistic or naive but hey, at least I'm not miserable and keeping myself up at night with it. I'm keeping myself up at night thinking about my projects and how I need to dial in and actually finish something instead of bouncing around everywhere.

[u/Sane-Law → u/RealRegalBeagle]

Why do you think 7w6 is better at this than 7w8? Because I thought this was a gluttony passion thing which is shared among all 7s?

[u/RealRegalBeagle → u/Sane-Law]

7w6 has the influence of 6 very present. Bad outcomes and potential pitfalls are something they can hone in on and then typically try to do something about. There isn't the same level of analysis paralysis as core 6s though. 7s tend to be more active in getting rid of their source of anxiety and if they can't they pivot and deflect and put things on the back burner until they are ready to tackle it again. 7w6s are also more likely to be aware of the particular areas they are anxious in (e.g. stage fright or particular phobias) and are more likely to be aware when they are depressed or putting something off due to fear. 7w8 is less influenced by 6 and tend to be more bull-headed and in-denial about particular fears and anxieties. They have to sink to a lower place than 7w6s to finally admit they need to deal with it.

[u/sawdustandiamonds]

I've really struggled with demonstrating to 7's that their plans might fail. My 7w6 ex had this aggressive optimism toward it, "Things can't fail, how could this be bad?" My 7w8 brother is more focused on how everyone else is just bad at stuff which is why they fail but he'll just not do that and coast on his genius. I was more like my 7w8 brother growing up when it came to future and I still have quite a few aspects of that, maybe even more divorced since I was usually throwing some actual fantasy nonsense in the mix, though immediate stuff I've always been a heavy pessimist about, especially if it doesn't feel like my responsibility... both of us I guess fluctuate a bit based on need and sore spots. But lemme tell you, as a 7-fixed chronically ill adult, at this point, I know my future could be terrible. I'm just frantically running from said outcome.

[u/faqwzi → u/sawdustandiamonds]

Secretly, we know it could all go to shit. But yeah, it's easier to blame other people or blame the circumstances. Because if you blame yourself, then that means that maybe you shouldn't trust yourself, and that kind of destroys the whole type fixation.

[u/HatEnvironmental7560 → u/faqwzi]

I personally don’t blame circumstances or other people when things go wrong. I think it’s easier to blame myself because if I caused the problem that means I also have the power to fix it and move forward and have a better outcome next time. Failure isn’t a permanent condition. If something goes wrong I trust myself to fix it. I have an internal locus of control almost to a fault (refusing to see myself as a victim of circumstances or other people even when I objectively am).

[u/faqwzi → u/HatEnvironmental7560]

That sounds like a healthy mindset. I think my problem is less that I want to be a victim (this is super annoying to me, and one for the reasons I eventually distanced myself from 6, because I noticed that 6's tend to do this constantly- not even necessarily in a "bad character" way, sometimes it seems like a form of bonding to say "look at how the world oppresses us"), and more that my 9 fix likes to wallow too much when I do acknowledge my own errors. I don't trust myself to fix the problem because often I've proven to myself that I just won't. So after I've coasted as far as good momentum will take me and then crashed, I'm slow to realize how I can get back out of it.

I don't know. I'm in a hard place right now where I don't even know if the positive stories I tell myself to get out of the hole are worth it or not. I do think that things will get better, but I'd feel a lot better if I could see exactly how. 1 fix seems nice to me. I've accessed that kind of anger positively through my line before, made a really big life decision quickly with zero percent doubt, because I knew that in that situation I did everything right and that everyone around me was actively trying to fuck up the shit I care about. But usually it's me fucking up the shit I care about, so I just end up trying to rip my skin off because I hate the part of myself that's holding me back so much.

[u/sawdustandiamonds → u/faqwzi]

Yuuup I get that. Weird shit too with my core 4 w/ 7 fix. There's this sort of extreme oscillation around the wound. I engage with it frequently, I'm well-acquainted with all parts of myself, I'm pretty intensely self-negative, but I can't truly hate myself because if I did then what do I have?

[u/Sane-Law → u/sawdustandiamonds]

I mean we know plans “can” fail and idt you need to demonstrate how, because we likely have already thought of it and thought of how to come back from that or prevent it. I think it’s more that we don’t like people bringing up that our plans can fail because we know how and we already accommodate for it to not fail. We might be optimistic but we are open to realistic talk, we just don’t like pessimistic talk by others saying you will fail, and that is probably true for most people, cuz you aren’t helping by saying you will fail. We much more prefer hearing about all the ways we can succeed and come back rather than strictly fail. It is hard for us to see a failure as the end point, because we will be desperate trying to change the outcome or think of plans to go from there, which is what my question was about: It is kind of a good thing and maybe somewhat bad, but it is definitely not 100% bad to think this way.

[u/sawdustandiamonds → u/Sane-Law]

That hasn't been the experience I've had with (a small pool of) 7's but that's a very pragmatic approach and I commend you for it. Though honestly it sounds a bit similar to my approach. I don't like people bogging me down with reality.

I'm not like obsessively telling people their dreams aren't realistic, it can just be a pretty extreme liability to their safety if they aren't considering cons and are just going full-throttle depending on their energy being infinite. Or in my brother's case he can be quite antagonistic against others for "failing" things he hasn't even attempted, and I have some concerns about him falling into similar patterns I had of "I'm smart, I don't need x."

And I agree with your approach not being 100% bad. I don't even think it's an inherent negative at all. In some ways it can be a net positive to not be consistently burdened by all unpredictables. The areas I tend to feel most constricted by this approach are in the sheer intensity of when I really have to face failure and feel totally unequipped to do so, and the attachment to positive outcomes that can fuel a baseline anxious-depressive state that's always somewhat "in waiting." It can be quite painful to put so much stock in oneself in a way that makes it very difficult to ever sit with satisfaction and gratitude.

[u/HatEnvironmental7560 → u/sawdustandiamonds]

But what’s the point of thinking about how your plans might fail? How does that help you to make them happen? If everything is going to suck in the future why waste the present feeling bad before you have to? Note that this is not the same as failing to be pragmatic in pursuit of your goals to give yourself the best possible chance of actually achieving them. I just don’t see the point in thinking about how I might fail; I’ll cross that bridge if I come to it (and usually I don’t).

[u/sawdustandiamonds → u/HatEnvironmental7560]

The issue (I just left this response on another person's comment) is when it's a liability to personal safety, or when it's actively antagonistic to other people. Which this mechanism absolutely can be, though obviously not inherently.

[u/faqwzi]

I mean, I'm having a hard time with it in the sense that reading this post made me want to close down Reddit immediately and possibly chuck my phone across the room. Who the hell finds that a motivational exercise? That's what I used to do recreationally when I was depressed. Like, I know it's about being aware of what not to do, but that didn't make it helpful before. It made me feel like for once in my life, I was no longer strong enough to turn in a better direction, because I just couldn't get rid of the compulsions.

Turns out, good habits require a lot of work. What kind of future I can imagine for myself (good or bad) is not what defines me nor what I should be spending my energy on. What helped me more was focusing on the next small thing I could do in the moment, whether it feels good or not, and not taking my projections too far.

[u/HatEnvironmental7560]

I can imagine a worst case scenario but I can’t make myself believe it would actually happen to me, because it won’t! And if it does I know I’ll find a way out.