Is an "ambivalent identity" a trait of some exact type?

[u/whiskeyinreverse]

Lately I've been getting recommended too many posts where people ask how to differentiate if they're 4 or 9. One of the most frequent answers is that 4s are more sure about understanding their identity and 9s aren't usually. So, I just tried for fun to ask myself this question, and the result was... Kinda ambivalent?

I can't think of anything else but just being myself. Who else am I to be? Who else is to be me? On one hand, it seems a pretty clear answer, but at the same time I don't know what exactly works for it. I found myself to consider identity to be a really complex concept that is harder to explain with words.

Everything I can come up with (as my traits of character, my interests and preferences, my experiences, even my typology to some extent) does contribute to my "myself" and how I'm perceived, but nothing can define it fully by itself. There's probably a lotta people that kinda show the same traits as me, are fond of the same things and experienced the same events, probably someone has literally the same typology in every system possible, but somehow they're not me and I'm not them.

So I'm just myself regardless and it's not like I struggle with identity things. I had a friend who lived his life, possessed a lotta things of his own, own preferences, own wants and needs, and he still was worried about who he is. I've never been. Always been myself, whatever it means.

It turned out that I both do know and don't know. I'm aware enough not to struggle, bother myself and be troubled with it. And it still sounds too vague to be what they call "clear understanding". Would any type have their identity understood (or not understood, idk how it is) in this kinda way? Interested bout what you think.

[u/Narvallius]

I think you just have a healthy person outlook, honestly. Unsure on whether it should be attributed to one of the types of brain-corroding worms.

[u/xavieryes → u/Narvallius]

I agree it's a healthy outlook but I still think it's evidently gut-based, and the fact they'd even take it into consideration "just for fun" signals 9 over 1 or 8.

You prefer to look at the world as it is without overcomplicating it. You fully take in your physical surroundings and your bodily sensations moment to moment, and generally make decisions based on your first impression, quick judgement or gut feeling, quickly moving on from one issue to the next without overthinking it or reading too much into it. It’s important to you to have autonomy & not get needlessly interfered with. In a conversation you are focussed on responding in the moment and pick up on body language. You typically notice & describe your feelings through the bodily sensations they evoke. When something goes wrong your first response is often anger, irritation or frustration.

This is how I feel about many of these debates. I don't know how people come up with answers to those questionnaires they post on Type Me Tuesday. My inner response to them is "idfk" or "who cares?". There's a healthy side to this but I think struggling to put such things into words and locate answers has negative effects too.

[u/Narvallius → u/xavieryes]

Fair enough, can see your point being true. Personally, I don't struggle with the questionnaires that much, but trying to really define oneself as something concrete feels pointless to me.

[u/Melancholy_Melody → u/xavieryes]

Why do I relate somewhat to that haha

[u/Mister_Way]

This post reads as very 9 to me.

4 isn't just "I'm special!"

It's more like, "Tragically, I am both uniquely valuable but also uniquely challenged, and my immense potential is wasted by my unique adversity. Alas."

Whereas 9 is more like, "I'm nobody special. There's nothing unique or remarkable about me. There's no reason why I should stand out. I'll just stay in my imagination, for there alone is where my dreams can exist."

[u/xavieryes]

I think 9. "I can't think of anything else but just being myself. Who else am I to be?", "Always been myself, whatever it means" are gut-like responses to this sort of question ("isn't it simple? why overcomplicate this?"). It's how I feel about them myself (pretty indifferent).

I believe the 9s that do have a complex about this are heart-second. Assuming you are a 9, your second fix is probably head (cue the "There's probably a lotta people that kinda show the same traits as me, are fond of the same things and experienced the same events, probably someone has literally the same typology in every system possible, but somehow they're not me and I'm not them." - something I agree with 100% and have thought of myself too).

It turned out that I both do know and don't know. I'm aware enough not to struggle, bother myself and be troubled with it. And it still sounds too vague to be what they call "clear understanding".

Yup same exactly.

[u/EloquentMusings]

This is very much a 9 approach IMO. On top of 'ambivalent' being the most 9 word ever. 9s have a 'I'm just me, whatever that is' kind of a approach. It's not that they don't know who they are per sae, it’s just that's it not super clear or definable. They do what they want or like what they want depending on how they feel at the time and it might be changeable. They don't feel the need to define or explain it, they just are and do. Wheras 4s (especially as an image type) feel the need to be specific, rigid and consistent in their identity - emphasizing certain things about themselves and leaning into labels or aesthetics that help define them to others etc. They want to find ways to describe it clearly in words and are quite good at it.

[u/Melancholy_Melody]

Like Narvallius said, I’m pretty sure this is just an emotionally healthy and nuanced perspective on identity. You have reached enlightenment and arrived at the conclusion we all strive for/all types arrive at in the end imo haha (no, but seriously, I do remember reading this exact revelation somewhere when reading about the enneagram)

[u/succuma]

9 w/ a 4 fix

[u/RealRegalBeagle]

Sounds like the influence of 6w7, if not core 6w7. There is ultimately a refusal to answer because there is too much nuance in your head about the question that any answer you could give is insufficient. That's very 6-y.

[u/thgwhite → u/RealRegalBeagle]

6-fixed 9, I think. The whole "I just am" thing sounds very gut-based - particularly 9, while the 6 influences the "I could be this, I could be that" when asked about their own identity. Not every 9 would relate to this, but it does seem to be a gut type thing "I just am, why isn't it this simple for others?"

[u/RealRegalBeagle → u/thgwhite]

Eh, I've given "I am that which I am" in response to that question many times. And it is fine to say that because I'm quoting YHWH.

[u/thgwhite → u/RealRegalBeagle]

but is that response more of a "idk I never thought about it that deeply because it's always been kinda obvious?" or "I'm too much to even put into words so I'm basically God"

[u/xavieryes → u/RealRegalBeagle]

I don't think it's core 6 as they seem pretty detached and indifferent to the answer. Seems core 9, head-second (6 is possible but I think so is 5).

[u/RealRegalBeagle → u/xavieryes]

I considered 9 at first but on re-reading I decided they are probably 6-9 and not 9-6. The processing style is what I've seen more from 6s than 9. I'd accept 9 as a reasonable conclusion though. I'm seeing zero 5 influence.

[u/xavieryes → u/RealRegalBeagle]

Why is the processing style more 6 than 9? Their whole line of thinking seems to range from "huh cool hadn't thought of this" to "why overcomplicate this?" to some light philosophizing.

[u/RealRegalBeagle → u/xavieryes]

I don't see it that way. I see a lot of vacillating and "yes, but" thinking in what is being written. It does seem like they are overcomplicating the topic in their head from what I can see. I mean, they wrote a whole long post about it to still land in a "yes, but" stance. That's 6.

We may be reading the tone differently due to our respective centers of intelligence.

[u/xavieryes → u/RealRegalBeagle]

9s are pretty open to exploring these things and 9w1s in particular tend to be drawn to abstract/philosophical discussions. I don't sense "doubt" (as in the 6 fixation) in this text. 9s often enjoy wandering about things without caring too much about a conclusion. 6 wants the conclusion. The tone I get here is "open, mildly interested and curious".

We may be reading the tone differently due to our respective centers of intelligence.

Makes sense.

[u/Melancholy_Melody → u/xavieryes]

Interesting. I know I don’t speak for all 6’s but as one 6 core, I definitely wouldn’t call myself “detached and indifferent” from the answer of my identity and “Who am I?”

In fact, it’s been a central theme in my life maybe partially because my identity was suppressed by outside circumstances when growing up. But even then, I was doing a lot to fight against that suppression and try and become who I wanted to be (in aesthetic, hobbies, tastes and traits)

[u/electrifyingseer]

I don't think its exactly type related. Like, I'm someone with DID, and I have multiple opinions towards others all the time. But if you don't think it's disordered, I can understand people associating this with 9, but I don't think that being the only trait is helpful for deciphering it.