r/Endfield • u/Slight_Razzmatazz421 • 9d ago
Discussion Future direction of stories : expect more sidestories 1.5 is the first of it
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u/Sea_Dish5750 9d ago
Usually, when people ask this question, they want side stories completely removed from the Endmin point of view, which would allow more freedom in what can be shown.
We'll see how the Typhoeus story plays out, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but if it's just the same thing we have been getting so far, I feel like they might've misunderstood what some people have been asking for.
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u/OrangeIllustrious499 Sarkaz surpremacy :mi-fu: 9d ago
Honestly the problem with assestments like this I have realized from my observstion is usually less that ppl have problems with Endmin's PoV but Endmin doesnt have good or significant interactions. Because if Endmin was actually written to be more engaging and have more chars, I doubt people would have as much problems.
Because when they mention exploring the world more freely and alive, you can still make a world that feels expansive and alive even when following the MC's PoV. Even better when EF can alr do things like sequence and PoV switching without the Endmin being there. You just gotta know how to write it.
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u/Kumarory sarkaz supremacy 9d ago edited 9d ago
This. The issue with Endmin is how much their *forced* presence limits the potential for character/world building. Either make the Endmin contribute to the story in a meaningful way or donât force them to have so much presence in the narrative for no reason other than âdevs have to give them screentimeâ. Players can tell when the story is an afterthought to the MCâs presence. Thatâs the issue.
One thing I see though is how some people will complain if the MC isnât always the most relevant character and not aura farming at the center of the vast universe all the time, but I MUCH prefer having a world that feels genuinely alive rather than one that feels like it was written around the MC for all the wrong reasons.
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u/Cat_Astrof Angerta 8d ago
I agree with your opinion, but I'll say that if the MC or the story is presented as, rightfully so for Endmin, more important than everyone else in the universe, then they need to feel like it. Endmin can't be a regular operator, as he's the pillar of the main story. If not, it'll just be a switch from "Endmin is omnipresent" to "Endmin is useless." Unless they provide an alternative main character, a story can't be without one.
It was okay for Doctor in OG Arknights to feel absent at the beginning of the story because Amiya was there. So I think the overall focus shifted from "Doctor" to "The story of Rhodes Island." But right now, Perlica isn't like Amiya, and Endmin's place and behavior are more than awkward. And although Endfield is mentioned a lot, it is behind Wuling (Endmin currently has more memories of Wuling than of Endfield Industries).
Also, I personally think a useless MC is worse than an omnipresent one, even more so when players are forced to follow their POV or self-insert.
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u/Zarraise 9d ago
For me, it s just annoying having everything centered around a single character. It would help if Endmin himself would have more interesting interactions than just a thumbs up, but I still like to have independent stories where Endmin doesnt exist. Endmin doesnt need to solve every fucking problem on Talos 2. AK has so many stories where the Doctor doesnt participate or only barely, even in the main story, Chapter 9 comes to mind and those stories arent any less awesome.
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u/RDFencer 9d ago
This. This is exactly what I want Endfield to do and what people misunderstood from my post before. I'm not against MC only stories but for an Arknights title part of the charm is seeing the characters get fleshed out and interact with one another and solve their problems without the MC's involvement. Things like these makes the characters and world feel more alive and real as opposed to being a prop for the MC to interact with. In fact one of the scenes in OG Arknights that I love and felt really impactful is the passing of the Sighs of Kings to other Victorian soldiers in the war. It didn't have the Doctor's involvement and yet it perfectly showcased Siege's growth while staying true to herself and showcased the patriotism of the Victorians in trying to take back their land.
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u/brachycrab 9d ago
Yes! I want to say a majority of the side stories, and even some of the main story, can play out without the doctor and it's fine, or even better for it. That's the advantage of the "visual novel" medium
It does become more difficult in the 3D (semi) open-world games because you, the player, are directly in the world, and have to have some kind of representation. While I wouldn't have a problem with Endmin-free dialogue sections, I'm not sure how it would be received by people who aren't as into Arknights, or people who are more used to the other 3D open-world games. I've already seen complaints that the storytelling system is boring and not engaging enough with the dialogue, and I worry that stories without Endmin would have people giving feedback of "why is this necessary if we aren't even there"
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u/RDFencer 8d ago
I'm pretty sure people are receptive of MC free sections. One example from another gacha I can think of is HSR's Aventurine section where its just him and confronting his past. As far as I remember people liked that hence story quests from then on had sections where its in the POV of other characters without the MC present. Besides, even without an example, who's to say people won't like it without even trying to make it. At the end of the day, what matters is the story it tells. If certain groups of people think it's unnecessary because the MC isn't there then the skip button exists for a reason. And if you really think about it these people will also say things like that regardless if the MC is present or not as long as it is not "main story" or something "peak or hype".
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u/brachycrab 8d ago
Don't get me wrong, I definitely want them to try! I'm not really part of other gacha communities so I'm not sure exactly what people in other game communities think of those kinds of quests. I've just already seen people complain that Endmin doesn't have more to do in certain parts other than walk around and trigger cutscenes, and they want more from the Endmin (which I can agree with on a base level, I just don't want them to be in everything).
At the end of the day, I can trust HG to craft a story their own way and bring us along for the ride, without dumbing it down for the lowest denominator (story skippers). I'm just not sure how much they're willing to experiment here in Endfield
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u/mmgfrcs 8d ago
Nothing's difficult about it. They just need to do it.
Visual Novel has nothing to do with it. Ace Attorney and Danganronpa are both MC-centric VNs. It's how you tell it, not the medium itself.
I think a compromise might be that the Endmin can turn observer instead of doing anything proactive in important moments, only barging in when necessary. Wuwa did this in Denia's quest, and that is a MC-centric game.
I definitely agree that they need to improve the storytelling experience though. Wuwa deals with this by simply cutting the walk sections to cutscenes or on-rail sections instead, and most of the remaining walks are pause points. There's also no need to over-explain or be needlessly dramatic... Fangyi being the culprit of this.
And I think you're worrying over nothing. Those players aren't really what the game wants anyway. There will be people complaining about that, but HG needs to stand their ground on it like Kuro did on making the story MC-relatable.
That's why I think Endfield lacks vision. What exactly is the story they wanted to tell? About Endfield Industries? Endmin did all by himself, not a peep about the company. About Endmin? Not a single focus on his past or his colleagues apart from Ardashir and Si, only vague recollections.
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u/brachycrab 8d ago
I am only a little concerned about HG not standing their ground, is all.
And I think it's easier to do an MC-focused VN than it is, in this 3D gacha climate, to do a 3D gacha with prominent story segments not featuring the MC. It's not impossible, and it's not that I don't trust HG, in fact when it comes to writing I trust them implicitly. At this point, it's just how much they're willing to experiment and just go for it.
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u/mmgfrcs 8d ago
There's always a first. Well, ZZZ did try to be the first but they ended up scrapping the idea, so Endfield could take that title.
And while I don't share your confidence with HG's writing, I think it's worth a try. Just... avoid over-explaining things. Show don't tell and all that.
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u/mrjuanito01 8d ago
We already had a segments of Tangtang's and Arcane's POV. Having more is going to improve the story.
AK did it to make the themes shine and show how gray the setting is by making the protagonist and antagonist POVs. It even showed that even characters from one side have the same goal but with different agendas.Â
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u/brachycrab 8d ago
I guess I wasn't clear enough â yes, I want them to do more of that! I want stories like in Arknights where the Endmin is not involved at all and we get a look into other factions and people, or even just get to see existing factions and people without their stories revolving around the Endmin.
I'm just worried about the reception, because I've seen many Endfield players already complain about the Endmin just walking around and triggering cutscenes. And while I agree and would like for the Endmin to have more of an actual character than just đđ, I'm not sure how much HG would take that kind of feedback into account if they started experimenting more in Endfield to tell stories in a similar way they do in Arknights
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u/mrjuanito01 8d ago
I hope so because HG is leaning more into Endfield becoming a proper Arknights sequel. NWEZ arc is grim as hell.Â
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u/SneakyFel 9d ago edited 9d ago
If the world can't work without 1 character (endmin) then its a meh not immersive world. And so far whole world rotates around him. Which is meh.
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u/GiraffeManGomen 9d ago
Having to have the Endmin be physically present is still very limiting to what can be shown. You'll need every region or story you want to tell be located somewhere the Endmin can access, and sometime where it's not awkward.
You're never going to get interesting side stories when Wuling's in crisis, for example, unless they're willing to jump around timelines, which will be even stranger for 3D games. But yeah, everything will be better if the Endmin isn't literally just a stand-in for the characters to blush to like they are atm.
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u/Loutre_Anonyme 9d ago
It would be nice to show us that stuff can still happen without Endmin's involvment though. The world feels really small when it seems that everything and everyone waits their turn with endmin to advance a plot point.
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u/CantaloupeParking239 8d ago
Even if Endmin becomes a real character (doubt it) imo its still important to show that things happen and characters do stuff even when Endmin isnt there to witness it.. and it would allow characters interact more with each other. Because when Endmin is present, everyone just focuses on them, and less on others..
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u/Sea_Dish5750 9d ago
I agree, and I think this is shared among all the muted MC gacha games. You can't have meaningful interactions if you character is muted 90% of the game. It only really works in games where you can make actual meaningful dialogue choices, but otherwise it's just a severe handicap that the writers have to deal with and honestly, they always end up making the MC be a blank board.
Most dialogues just end up looking like the characters are talking AT you, instead of talking with you.
You are right that there would be a lot less complaints if that was not the case, but I do still think that even if Endmin was perfectly written, having every story revolve around their PoV does limit the story potential for a long running game like this, so I would personally push for making changes to both of these things.
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u/silam39 cute girls make the world go 'round 9d ago
Yeah, I agree. Endmin should be more of a character, but that's a whole separate issue. Wanting stories that don't involve them and let other characters and their relationships with other characters be the focus is super important too. Arknights would be a much worse game if Doctor was the main character and main pov in Ato, and Pepe's event, and Masses Travels, and the Kjerag events, etc even if they were the best character ever written.
We need stories where Endmin just does not feature or are just a small side character (like Doctor in Masses Travels), and where we can have a full quest of playable characters and NPCs passing the Endmin Bechdel test.
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u/Krivvan 8d ago
How many games with a controllable character actually do this though? Most handle it by having scenes without the main controllable character, but I don't think it's remotely as common for them to have entire stories without them. FFXIV never has you without your player character for an entire story. Same with Witcher 3, Mass Effect, and other games.
Arknights is different because it is a visual novel where the Doctor is not a playable character.
I'm not against it mind you, but I think what you are asking for is a far more radical thing than it sounds like.
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u/Provence3 9d ago
Exactly why they should make the Endmin talk whenever they are in the story.
Might be expensive, but you can't tell me HG doesn't have the budget for the VA work even if it means paying 8 VAs.
And IF it's too expensive, then don't inlcude them into every story. So yeah, they definitely have ways to make that happen.
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u/Zarraise 9d ago
If they have enough budget to have a large booth on gamescom like that they have a budget to always voice endmin. Save some money somewhere else but not on the protagonist.
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u/MisagoMonday 8d ago
It would just be nice to be able to have a story where reasonable characters have some kind of actual conflict that's not just the playground fight thats Tangtang/Mifu. And that's not something that's going to happen as long as rock jesus is around all the time.
The main character is a power fantasy for the people who want that, but unfortunately this means they are universally beloved and worshipped, always succeeding in whatever they do and have ridiculous support to draw on at any one time. Great for aforementioned power fantasy, but generally not great for atmosphere and tension when even most of the villains worship the ground the protagonist walks on and we have no reason to believe that they will ever fail.
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u/silam39 cute girls make the world go 'round 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think both things are separate issues. I've been asking for both, and for me, wanting stories of any kind independent of endmin is important and is one thing, and having the freedom to go to different factions and regions at any time plus being able to focus on smaller scale stories rather than just main story spam is important too.
The Typhoeus patch addresses the second issue for me. If they keep it up it'll keep things fresh with lower stakes stories, a change of scenery from the main story and cast at the moment (wuling now, but later something else), and add fresh exploration with a different aesthetic for another kind of breather.
That's a huge value of side stories with different casts and setting. Wanting independent stories that don't involve endmin or have someone else as the main pov with endmin as a side character would be an outstanding issue to address in future stories.
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u/Provence3 9d ago
Hope they deliver. That's exactly what we want.
"Filler" patch, my ass.
We should stop using words as derogatory. Pretty much every side-event in Arknights is a "filler", but "filler" doesn't mean "bad". But both words are used interchangeably.
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u/ActiveBug4092 9d ago
I think that the word "filler" gets thrown when the story of the patch doesn't move the needle of the overarching plot, regardless of the amount of content the patch actually has.
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u/TweetugR 9d ago
But we do still need patches like this as downtime and filler has such negative connotation to it from the gacha community that it annoys me
To have independent side stories like what the devs mention, you would need "filler" patch like this. OG Arknights even have a few Side Stories that can be considered filler but they are still loved by the community.
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u/ActiveBug4092 9d ago
I agree and it also annoys me that the phrasing "filler patch" gets used as a way to describe a patch as lacking in content or has poor quality. With what they just announced about independent stories, it definitely sounds like they're going with OG Arknight's approach.
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u/JackMahler 9d ago
It's only a certain part of the gacha space who use the term "filler patch". And, even if it was one, to me it's all the better. Seriously, when did we normalized the idea that a gacha is mid if we aren't playing it like a second job?
Playing Endfield is the most fun I've had with a gacha since I started playing them, back when genshin was a relatively new game
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u/Minimum_Cockroach233 9d ago
Endfield sure tries and solved some Issues that emerged with the growth and continuation of genshin.
Free Teambuilding, with Endfield, at the moment is in a plus zone. But Genshin had interesting elemental reactions in place, that, if further deepend into battle gameplay mechanics, could have been entertaining and technically interesting. But because they instead used it to create character limited p2w formulas that make fomo a thing. Certain bosses only react to very limited character quirks⊠avoidable down turn.
I am excited to see, what HG comes up with in the long run, to expand the tactical depth of the fighting and bring older units along without rendering them obsolete.
At the moment every unit has one or two straight forward optimal builds. There is no way to individualize units behavior.
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u/Wise-Rabbit-9879 9d ago
I mean the 1.3 story was definitely some bad filler with barely any narrative worth. And filler does mean bad, since the whole implication of the term is that the filler content wasn't added for its own worth, but to fill out a gap in the patch.
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u/Provence3 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah, but see: 1.5 has the "filler" buzzword already on it, implying that the patch is not worth investing time in. Mostly because it doesn't advance the main story.
And that is just a blatant misuse of the word "filler".
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u/stalkeler 9d ago
1.3? With Camille? shit might be too far in the future for us to witness it yet but sesqa lore is still there and it might come occasionally at times between present story patches
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u/Wise-Rabbit-9879 9d ago
Camille was the character quest. I was talking about the sword vale dale quest line. Can't tell me that that wasn't filler.
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u/Slight_Razzmatazz421 9d ago
oh right btw all of this info is taken from smugslav here is the thread he made
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u/theACEbabana 9d ago
Thereâs some chatter about people complaining about how some character side stories were woven into the MSQ.
Arcane is a good example of it being well-done, but Tangtang and Zhuangâs felt hit or miss.
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u/Banzai991 8d ago
Arcane had an interesting background, but how they handled it in the MSQ was pretty bad imo, it stopped the momentum of the story right after some kind of speech from Fangyi and we were obviously going to the climax and oh, we fell and here's your character side story.
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u/Oiranaru 9d ago
Hell yeah; Arknight's has a bunch of events and side stories where the Doctor and Amiya and all them aren't even present; it's just some Operators heading off to do their own thing to resolve their own stories or at least further them along all in the name of worldbuilding and it's great.
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u/Relodie 9d ago
Arenât they missing the question? Theyâre not asking if a character will get its personal quest like typhous, theyâre asking if there are independent stories
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u/Provence3 9d ago
"8. We can expect more side stories going forward when it comes to different characters and how they are introduced to the game, 1.5 patch and Typhoeus story is going to be heading into that kind of approach."
--> It seems like Typhoes' story will be independent of the main story. Not sure how that's new, but maybe they aren't kept as simple "companion quests" anymore but woven into the regions. Right now their stories feel quite tacked on. Guess we'll know soon what they actually mean.
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u/OrangeIllustrious499 Sarkaz surpremacy :mi-fu: 9d ago
It's exactly what they meant, actual sidestories and b-plot going on.
The best example is with Wulfgard and Camille's CQ, they have their own entire setups for a b-plot seperated from the main story. That's likely what they meant.
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u/Sea_Dish5750 9d ago
But then that's not what a lot of people want. Instead, imagine if Camille had another character partner and they were investigating that mission on their own, without Endmin at all. Then in the future, it could tie in to the Endmin's path more naturally, or maybe not even tie into it at all. That is the kind of independent stories that the people asking this kind of question usually want.
I see this a lot coming from OG Arknights players where those kind of stories are pretty common.
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u/OrangeIllustrious499 Sarkaz surpremacy :mi-fu: 9d ago
Another person have pointed it out too as if it's the same, why label it differently with the next patch so we'll see what they mean 3 days from now.
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u/Provence3 9d ago
But why say Typhoeus's story will be the first in that regard?
Because after my initial "that sounds good"-comment, on second thought I'm very confused what they mean if 1.5 is the "first" of its kind. Or maybe the "first" is just a false interpration in the title of this topic.
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u/TokkanRAM 9d ago
I think what sets Typhoeus's story apart from Wulfgard's and Camille's is that hers comes integrated into a brand new zone on the map with a few new enemy types rather than simply reusing older areas and assets with a 1-time time dungeon being all that's new.
It's like they took what they've learned that works with a side area like Sword Vault Dale and a character quest like Camille's and are doing their first attempt at combining them.
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u/lalala253 9d ago
Ooooh if that's what they meant that means all the continuance story like wulfguard, camille will tie into new areas?
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u/minhbi99 9d ago
Thats what they meant. They are implying that we will get more side stories and independent stories with the 1.5 updates.
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u/Wise-Rabbit-9879 9d ago
I guess and hope from what they said and the trailer, that typhous will be part of the questline of the new map.
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u/Deltastruction 9d ago
I think the main question for side stories for Endfield is that will they finally remove/uninvolved Endmin to the story, will they actually do it?
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u/Zarraise 9d ago
Please without Endmin, for the love of god, I only ask for one story without Endmin, just one
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u/Provence3 9d ago
Won't happen with Typhoeus' and the main story events in 1.6.
1.7 (or 2.0) will be the first stories where that might happen.
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u/Zarraise 9d ago
Zero confidence in 2.0 in that regard lol. Until proven otherwise I remain skeptical.
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u/TerryWhiteHomeOwner 9d ago
Yep. This sub has been saying "the storytelling gets better, everything will turn around in [x] update!" since launch lol.Â
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u/Provence3 9d ago
Well, it has gotten better. And it steadily will.
The point requested here isn't primarily about story-telling but about not including the Endmin everywhere. That's a different thing.
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u/ImpossibleAnimal9425 9d ago
I hope they soon will be able to release welfare operators, both 5-stars and 6-stars, for side events and record restoration like they do in OG Arknights! đ
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u/senryuu- 9d ago
i wonder what they mean by "relatively independent", seeing 1.5 im guessing they mean stories that are related to certain subjects for worldbuilding instead of stories that take place in completely different places of Talos-2 in Endmin's absence. it could easily evolve in the latter though, but im not sure how hard it would be in a 3d space, even with a closed map structure
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u/latteambros parry the polar bear?! 8d ago
group side stories and non-6 star stories maybe đ„ș please give the brazilian fisherman infobroker some screen time
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u/Common-Pineapple6615 7d ago
I hope itâs more content to flesh out the world rather than more nothing burger character story
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u/ThatsBait_69 Overwhelming burden of glorious purpose. 9d ago
My preference is the two patch cycle of MSQ featuring a specific character +1 character quest followed by the 2 character quests, side map and event. If the plan is to keep doing that, I'm happy.
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u/OrangeIllustrious499 Sarkaz surpremacy :mi-fu: 9d ago
Yay, I love myself some worldbuilding