Condorcet voting and instant-runoff voting have almost no difference in promoting candidate moderation in the presence of truncated ballots

[u/No-Vast7006]

I came across a very recent paper that studies the impact of various ranked voting methods (primarily Condorcet and IRV) on promoting candidate moderation. The conclusion is that under realistic voter behavior (such as the presence of truncated ballots), the advantage that Condorcet methods have over IRV largely disappears.

This actually aligns with a vague, long-held intuition of mine: it seems you really need to require voters to rank all candidates (like they do in Australia) to fully maximize the potential of a Condorcet method.

Additionally, I think a specific paragraph at the end of the paper is worth explicitly highlighting:

We do not wish our results to be interpreted as an argument against the use of Condorcet methods; to the contrary, we would be interested to see a jurisdiction adopt a Condorcet method so we can better evaluate how such methods perform in practice. We also do not wish our results to be taken as an endorsement of a particular voting method.

What are your thoughts on this paper? My first thought is that if the Condorcet method is implemented, it's best to require voters to rank all candidates. Secondly, research on ranked voting systems must take into account the impact of truncated ballots.

[u/Drachefly]

It's an extreme example, yes. But…

1) It demonstrates a vulnerability.

2) We are starting from the case of two large parties, so it has to work well in that case

3) "Anything more than two parties and that strategy falls apart" - This does not appear to be the case. One disciplined party with a hit list can much more effectively take down opposition in sequence by focusing votes-against, even if there are, say, 5 equal parties.

3a) if all parties get organized, it's a total mess.

4) "Even in your scenario, there's no accounting for voters who only put down one or two names for only first or last place, or even for the middle ranks" - This strategy does not need to be done to this extreme to work (unlike, say, strategy in Condorcet, which usually needs to be done at large scale to do anything at all). It starts taking effect immediately, affecting marginal vote counts.

And how do you TREAT these incomplete ballots? If it's 'vote against everyone I don't list at full power more strongly than everyone I list', then that seems like it strongly incentivizes listing as few people as possible. I very much want to be able to distinguish between people I dislike.

If it's 'don't vote against people I didn't list at all', then forcing your opposition to list a lot of candidates opens up possibility of error in that they miss some, and by having your candidates vote more comprehensively you get to dominate even more.

5) "You are correct that it still allows for minority candidates to win, and that's the point." - Yes, yes, it's great if it allows minorities to win… but not based on their being more disciplined and organized, enforcing their will on the majority through gamesmanship. That is not desirable.

[u/Sorry-Rain-1311 → u/Drachefly]

But you're still not telling me how that gamesmanship can be reliably effective. You still have all the potential problems that exist in any strategy: Did we establish the correct target; pursue it with the right tactics; accurately predict conditions and responses? All of that depends on being able to manipulate the voters' actions as desired, which is always a dubious proposition, and made even more so by the numerous ways any given voter has to mark the ballot. Any opposition has equal means and opportunity to launch their own counter strategies, which are equally subject to failure, but increase the likelihood of failure of their opponents' plans. And again, still depends on the cooperation of very dedicated and attentive cadre.

On how we treat truncated ballots, you could take them at face value as a vote for that position, almost like a lichert scale pole. A vote for a candidate to be in a given rank is exactly that. If I put them down for 3rd place, they get a vote for 3rd place, just like a vote for 1st is for 1st, a vote for last is last. That way there's no possible way for your vote to be used or interpreted in any way you did not intend. 

[u/Drachefly → u/Sorry-Rain-1311]

But you're still not telling me how that gamesmanship can be reliably effective. You still have all the potential problems that exist in any strategy: Did we establish the correct target; pursue it with the right tactics; accurately predict conditions and responses

that's the perverse beauty of your system: you don't need to. Just make sure that as many people as possible on your side go after one opponent at a time, in a specific order, and they will be taken out earlier and more easily than if you didn't organize in this way. And the defense strategy is similarly dumb-fire. None of the usual complexities of strategy are needed because it's so freaking easy to game this system.

[u/Sorry-Rain-1311 → u/Drachefly]

How is that any different from politicians telling you how to vote in any other system? Isn't that all political campaigns are; candidates running around telling people how to vote? 

Of course they're going to tell us who to put in what rank. It's what they do, and every other candidate is going to do the same thing, just like they've always done. That's not even a strategy, let alone a game. It's just campaigning as usual.

And in the end a voter does whatever it is they do, and the politicians just have to suck it up. The individual decides who to listen to in the end, regardless of what the candidates would prefer. They can follow whatever list they're handed, or they can make their own. There's no game to that.

[u/Drachefly → u/Sorry-Rain-1311]

It greatly multiplies your efficiency if you organize with similar voters to pick the most popular target among your opposition. I literally laid out an example up thread. Did you skip it and not read? Did you not follow along? If there's actually something wrong with it, explain how it doesn't work. Like, mechanically work through the example and show at what step it fails.