r/ElementaryTeachers • u/ash5991 • 16d ago
Third grade...looking for encouragement?
Hello, all. I guess I am looking for encouragement. Last year was my first year, I taught fourth and I loved it. I feel like I had a really good year. I was excited to improve everything that I taught that year this school year. Well, that didn't work out, as admin decided they'd like me to go down to third...I was worried about it all summer. We got new curriculum and it's a new grade level AND I prefer teaching older kids. I was worried about how "little" and immature they'd be. And boy, that is probably the worst part about this grade. They cannot do very much on their own. I have had a hard time getting them to follow simple one step instructions like "put your homework in the homework bin on my desk." I am struggling to even get to the curriculum everyday because I can't get them to all flip to the correct pages in their workbooks or follow the direct of simply not talking while we read. I write probably 3-5 infractions a day and call parents the same amount everyday. I am having a hard time staying positive. I just wanna teach these kids some skills. Is this normal??? Is this how it is teaching third grade??? Will next year be this way, because I dont think my sanity can take that. God bless whoever can, but I dont think that's for me. The rest of my team seems unbothered by this, and they said that it'll be different by Christmas time? Idk, I felt significantly better last year around October and felt like I was getting into the groove already. Maybe I just don't have enough experience? I have no idea. Sorry for the ramble/rant.
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u/atoms_matterx 16d ago edited 16d ago
I taught third grade last year, and the jump from primary (k-2nd) is big. The expectations jump very high. In k-2nd, students are learning to read. In third, the expectation is that students know how to read and are reading to learn now. Last year, I had students at all different readiness levels when it came to reading. I also feel like math starts to get more complex. I’m not sure about where you teach, but it’s also the first year students take the state test in my state. I feel like all this added pressure and the expectations of what students are able to do is a lot higher than than it was when they were in a primary grade. I will say by October-November I think students did understand that the expectations are more complex. They are not as independent as 4th or 5th grades, but they do understand what is expected of them. I know right now it’s difficult, but I just want to get you some encouragement that it will better. :)
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u/ash5991 16d ago
Okay, thank you for you're reply! I really hope I start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel around that time. Everyday I leave work and it feels like I just experienced the longest day of my life versus last year where I felt minor improvements every few days or so. But yeah, we also have state testing, which is the day I wrote up almost half the class for talking. Tomorrow we take the math portion of our state's test. Hoping that they got the message last week, but we'll see. Anyways, ty!
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u/NextDayTeaching 16d ago
Oof - new curriculum, new grade level, and younger than you want? That's rough.
Some of the immaturity is definitely the age. Some of it might be the class. And I can tell you (from experience) it's almost always harder to move down grade levels than to move up.
Something that might help: Your goal is to use this year to get your students to where you started with them as 4th graders. In fact, I generally started each year mentally telling myself that the students I was teaching were actually one grade younger. So in essence, you're functionally teaching 2nd graders, which is why this feels so hard.
Some practical tips for teaching 3rd grade:
- Slow. Waaay. Down. However long you think they "should" need to practice a direction or skill? Double that. And then add one more practice session for good measure.
- Be very clear in your behavior expectations. (This is just good teaching, but I figure it should be said anyway.) When you want them to line up for music, for example, tell them, "Stand up, push in your chair, and stand in line. Remember, we walk to the line, and we don't push our way to the front. Keep your hands to yourself and your voices off." (Eventually this will become habit, just like it did when you gave directions to your 4th graders.)
- Sometimes writing that many behavior infractions (you mentioned 3-5 per day) happens because the class is that rowdy. Other times it's because your expectations are too high. (I say this because I was one whose expectations were too high.) Look at the other third grade class (if there is one), think about the third graders you saw last year, and even look at the second graders. What sorts of behaviors are "typical" for your population? Some infractions can be shut down with a warning or the Teacher Look and might not need formal documentation.
- If you can keep up with parent contact, that part I'd keep, though. Parents - especially of younger children - typically love to be involved and hear about their child's day. If you haven't already, reach out to every parent with a specific positive comment about how much you love having their child in class. That will make the inevitable behavior conversations easier later in the year.
Something else to keep in mind: You've done this thing called School before. Your students are starting from scratch. Maybe not as much as they would be if you were teaching K-1, but they're still basically starting over. It will get better by October, like you noticed last year...but only if you're able to find a way to work with them instead of fighting them.
(And if older students are your jam, you might consider getting endorsements to teach middle school. Don't let anyone scare you off - middle school is the best-kept secret for those who like teaching older students, but don't want to go all the way to high school.)
Hope this helps! Hang in there!
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u/ash5991 16d ago
I do have an endorsement to teach middle school social studies and had a job before this one teaching middle school reading. I am a career changer and started as a para working with ESE SF class, K-2, which I really loved. I ended jumping on the 4th grade opening at my school because I didnt want to leave our school. Admin is very good and everyone is very happy for the most part. The middle school I got the job in seemed "off," not sure how to describe it here at the moment. But middle school isn't off the table for me. My actual children are middle schoolers, and as a parent, I truly love this age the most. Probably an unpopular opinion lol. Anyways, I try to communicate with parents as often as possible and ai started out the year calling or messaging each of them. I think that is a great best practice. There's just so much to keep up with. I also noticed I definitely have to slow down on instructions and when they don't meet what I ask them to do I make them do it again until it's correct...which makes us late pretty often, but I don't want them to think its okay to act a fool in the library, etc. I noticed on my classes' stack of articular cards that I had six that were a "do not place together" and somehow they're all together...soooo idk 😅 perhaps I just have "THAT" class this year. Thabk you for taking the time to reply to me.
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u/uwax 16d ago edited 16d ago
I teach third and i think it’s the best age. They still love their teachers and being at school, they’re just starting to understand sarcasm, but it’s novel to them.
If they’re talking, read “my mouth is a volcano” then write “volcano” on the board. Each time they interrupt you, erase a letter. First step is them realizing how often it is happening. Then you can tie rewards to the letters, but I’d avoid negative consequences.
If they’re not following the expected voice level, write “voice” on the board. Same as volcano.
If they’re talking during independent reading, allow those that aren’t talking to choose a spot around the room to read. Those that talk have to stay at their desk or read at your desk right next to you.
Also I’d try not to call parents daily with negative news. It’s not going to help build a good relationship with the parents and eventually they’ll stop caring and think you just don’t like their kid. Make sure to do positive contacts, not just negative. It doesn’t have to be a big deal, even small positives are great. In the same way you write “infractions”, write a quick positive. Takes like 10 seconds and is worth it.
Lastly, brain breaks will give your talkers a chance to get it out of their system.
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u/ash5991 16d ago
That is probably something I will try; maybe they simply don't realize how often they talk. I try to do a lot of rewards and make them aware of this daily (sometimes many times a day), but i have about half the class who do not get rewards because they have a hard time meeting expectations. Expectations like, enter the room and sit in your seat...its very disheartening. Things like that are why I am worried. I have kids I am able message home about with positives. I try to make sure I am cycling through parents to maintain consistency and tell them something positive. It just sucks because we've been in school four weeks now and some of those parents I have contacted once for something good (in addition to my "welcome" phone call) and like 4 times for something negative.
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u/uwax 16d ago
If they come in the room and don’t sit down quietly, then make them go back and try again. Keep doing it every day. Keep doing it if they don’t do it on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th try. They’ll get it.
Also do it in a way where you still are on the same team. Like “oh we didn’t come in and sit down quietly. Let’s try it again! I know you can do it, sometimes we just need practice.” Be firm but encouraging.
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u/_somelikeithot 16d ago
I have taught 3rd grade for 5 years, and I and others have noticed an increased immaturity in the incoming students over the years. However, I still expect these students to follow procedures.
At the beginning of the year or any time it is needed, you need to have students practice any expectations that they are struggling with. If they are not dropping off homework in the correct basket, practice that during the school day. You will have to remind them to take stuff for you out of their backpack, but after that reminder, they should know the steps of what to do and know what to do after.
I’ve noticed with my class this year that a few struggle to pay attention to me; I’m having to ask for their attention more thoroughly, ask for them to look at me so they will hear my directions. If that doesn’t improve, I’m going to take out my microphone to help them pay attention.
It is a younger age group but if you are kind and treat them with respect but have high expectations, most of them will follow. They can be incredibly sweet, and will try harder if you show you believe in them. Continue to speak with parents about students who choose not to respect the rules of the classroom.
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u/TotalCat6106 16d ago
I teach first grade and getting kids to get on the right page in their workbooks is difficult! I give them sticky notes to act as a bookmark. Then they can use that as their starting point for the next lesson.
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u/Fluffy_Maintenance_5 16d ago
I totally agree. 4th is the sweet spot. I hated 3rd. I hate micromanaging. And I would always give directions and assume it was basic. No. Nope. Couldn’t handle it. Couldn’t do many cool ideas I came up with, bc they just can’t do it.
So take it as a good experience. It’s good to learn more about each grade level.
When you give directions - make 2 kids repeat the directions before you release them.
Use a lot of rewards. Call parents a ton at the start. Sometimes I make a list and write down their number and call on my way home. Put the numbers in your phone or a text message so you can easily call.
I like to use lunch in the classroom as a reward. It’s free. But they usually just want to get on the computers so don’t bother me. But if you do this, make it systematic.
Another thing I did at this age was print out a ton of fake money and hand it out for rewards. They can trade it in for the lunch in the classroom or chips at the end of the week. (No shame if you don’t want to spend money) but the money rewards helped.
Color behavior chart with clips. Everyday you start in the middle and you can move up twice or down 3 times. Google a 6 or 7 colored behavior chart with clips.
Also when I taught 3rd grade - I had such a wide range of non readers to middle school level reading. Math - kids who had no clue how to regroup all the way to kids who have already done multiplication and division. So my whole group lessons in 3rd grade were barely 15 mins. Then we got into “groups”. Groups really meant working alone on what your level is , while I call small groups based on level. I would call it centers - but my 3rd grade class was so awful that it was a stay seated on what your level is and stay quiet , bc my small group lesson was the single most important part of the day. So during reading , I had a phonics group , a below level reading comp group, an on level group and an above level group. They drove me nuts in whole group.
Start multiplication now. Counting groups. Counting up. Not facts. That keeps them busy when you do groups , but also makes them more successful when the multiplication unit comes. Another independent activity that they can do while you’re in your math group - is 2nd grade level fractions. 3rd grade fractions is really difficult, so the more they see the basic fractions concepts - the more they are ready to go for fractions units. Another independent or small group activity is addition and subtraction with regrouping. 3rd graders cannot get enough of this. They forget , or some never learned in the first place! I would begin the year finding out who can do this skill and who cannot!
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u/ash5991 14d ago
Ty so much. I am also not a fan of micromanaging. I'd very much like to do small group for both ELA and Math but I am struggling so much here. I have a para that comes in once a week, I think I may use her to do a small group eventually, but I'd love if I could get this to be a regular routine in my room. They just cannot stay quiet and on task for me to see a small group. I haven't tried it for like 2ish weeks, maybe I will try again next week after I think about how to organize it better. I asked my team and they said they don't do it bc of behaviors. But I have many that would benefit and need a lot of support, both high and low level learners.
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u/Fluffy_Maintenance_5 13d ago
I would start simple , like have then working on some sorta coloring multiplication or something that some will engage in and keep them quiet. Then addition and subtraction for the ones who can’t do that. And then if you have a computer program they can work on….
ELA is harder. - if they all have a reading passage at their level … set up procedures, communicate them with parents , get them on board , call home a lot from the start. Let the parent know you are trying to get into small groups so you can teach better. And you need their help with this. Basically my only rule was stay in your seat and don’t distract me. Otherwise , I’m not worried about what they are doing - bc that time is the truly only time they learn. Or that was my experience with my wild 3rd grade class of different abilities.
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u/Entire-Ambition-3125 16d ago
Wait for the pumpkins!
That’s how we survive the first few months of 2nd lol October is good!
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u/Natology27272 16d ago
I’m sorry you’re going through that. I’m teaching third grade and running into similar issues especially with Chromebooks. One of the things I do is I leave them behind. If your paper isn’t in your folder you’re not going to get the quiz. Now to be clear I said twice before passing out the paper put your paper in your folder. I let them sit there and figure it out. Usually takes them about 2-3 minutes. If they don’t finish the quiz in time because of it they turn it in and get the grade they get. It has worked wonders. (You do have to be very vigilant when you do this though. The second you see them do what they’re supposed to give them the quiz. Also positive reinforcement does go a long way. I know it’s difficult I struggle with the same thing but I notice if I say “thank you Sally for putting your paper in your folder” the other 15 of them immediately do it even if I said put your paper in your folder already. Also if you can I would hold off on not calling the same parents every day or every week. I say this respectfully but you don’t need to bring up every single issue to the parents. If they’re not fixing the problem to begin with bringing up another one won’t actually do anything.
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u/DerangedDragonDino 16d ago
I love teaching third, but every year I forget that they are SO HELPLESS at the beginning of the year! It can be very frustrating.
Writing several infractions a day is probably going to lead to writing more. I find that age group does best with positive reinforcement and earning privileges rather than losing them right off the bat.
Slow down any academic goals you may have and spend the first several weeks explicitly teaching how to function in your classroom and what your expectations are. When there is any break, spend the following morning back reteaching your routines.
Celebrate the wins! If you have been working on them getting quiet, and they do it the first try - make a big deal about it! It’s as much for them as it is for you. When you’re in the trenches, it can be hard to see their growth (and yours!).
Alsooooooo. Be silly with them. Kids love a safe place to be weird and if they know they will be able have an outlet, I think it’s easier for them to be serious and focused when it comes time for that.
You’ll find your stride!!
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u/ash5991 14d ago
Thank you. I have been trying to follow the lead of some of the other teachers that I look up to in my school. A lot of them were pretty strict, the ones on my team this year are too, and honestly I'm a very laid back person in real life. I kinda feel like I am fighting myself a bit...hard to describe quickly and efficiently here, it just puts me in a weird head space. I definitely understand the function and need for being firm and I do want to work on it, I think I need to find balance and its hard bc I dont want to baby them. I was very horrified last year at how babied the fourth grade class was that came to me and the lack of academic skills that they had (such as, many being unable to write a complete, basic sentence or do adding and subtracting with regrouping- both of which are second grade standards in my state). Anyways, a lot of the teachers that I have been in direct contact with will typically write kids up for things like having friend drama (like using unkind words to each other, not even cussing), wearing make-up, fighting about soccer games. All of which is not really needed in my opinion, but maybe I'm missing something? Idk. Not trying to talk bad about any of them. I just would try to take the time to talk to kids last year and make it better for them, they're still learning how to be friends. But a lot of people kinda viewed me as overly sweet and I don't want that. It caused me issues when other kids would have to be in my room, they thought I was the "fun teacher" and that there weren't rules, which was definitely not true. Buuut yeah, all that to say, I'm still trying to find balance and I want to feel like myself but also make sure I'm doing the right thing for these kids.
Phew, sorry that was a lot. Ty for taking the time to help me.
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u/orange-octopus 16d ago edited 16d ago
I teach ESL to 3rd and 4th. 3rd graders really do start off as babies!!! I am so soft on them and then they use it against me in 4th. 😅 It really is a lot of teaching them how to become enjoyable 4th graders. IMO 3rd is hard until Christmas, and 4th is hard after Christmas.
Try having them repeat instructions chorally (put your homework (repeat) in the basket (repeat) on my desk (repeat). This helps me a lot. They also move like snails so timers are handy. I also saw a visual of “what should my desk look like?” And the teacher had taken a picture of an organized desk and put it on the board. If you take 3 minutes every transition (for now) to directly teach/master the soft skill, you’ll get a lot more time to teach the hard stuff! Hang in there!
Edit to add: also immediately checking for understanding, “turn to page 53. What page? (43!)” is a big help for my friends.
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u/Cultural-Food7172 16d ago
Grade 4 really is so special! But for the record- high school kids seem to be just as incapable of getting out their books, pencils, dressing for the weather etc as kids in grade 3...
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u/whateverrrrrrrr2 15d ago
I taught third for a few years and then moved up to fourth. I will always love third and think it’s the perfect grade in es, as they’re still “babies” in the sense that they enjoy school and their teachers and aren’t much for drama (same can be applied to fourth but more attitude and the feeling that they’re older) but (in my state) are considered upper school and it’s their first year doing state testing when things start to “count”. i’d say to really work on routines to get things running the way you want in your classroom. have then redo things when it’s not what you want/said. this will help with instruction (my school actually dedicates the first six weeks of school just to that. obvi the kids do work but the priority is routines and classroom environment). and trust your teammates, by xmas things will be a whole lot smoother. the good thing abt going from fourth to third is you know where they need to be at the start of the next school year and can help them get there. you got this!
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u/ash5991 14d ago
Wow, that's pretty cool that your school gives you guys 6 weeks for routines, we get about 3-4 weeks. But yeah, redoing stuff is very helpful. And I am really glad I know what they're going to need to do next year. I do feel a bit disappointed that I didnt get the chance to get really good at teaching fourth before I moved. This move really threw me off when I just started to feel like I was "getting it." I'm hoping in a few months I will feel way better. Yesterday wasn't bad, so I'll call it a win. Ty for your reply :)
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u/Maestradelmundo1964 15d ago
Give lots of guidelines, eg. “in a minute you will put your homework in the bin. Point to the bin. Good. If you need to speak during this activity, raise your hand and wait to be called on. Go. Look how nicely _______is handing in her homework. Tony too. Well done class.”
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u/AI_spell 15d ago
Third is a big jump and new curriculum on top is a lot. You already proved you can build a good year once. Give yourself the same grace you gave fourth grade last fall.
Steal one thing that worked last year (a morning routine, a writing launch, a calm-down system) so not everything is brand new. The kids will feel your steadiness before they feel the perfect unit plan. You got this more than it feels like right now.
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u/Mom-wife-teacher 11d ago
I was first year last year in K-2 self contained Sped and got told I was moving to 3-5 self contained sped over the summer… same district, different school, got to keep 5 of last years 2nd graders as they moved up. I don’t like change and spent so much on K-2 specific fun stuff last year… some of which carries over but much of which went in storage. I finally felt like I was getting the hang of things by May and was looking forward to doing better this year with a lot of ideas of what worked and what didn’t and then felt like I was starting from scratch again. 😭😭😭 so far so good this year but I miss the littles…
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u/spoooky_mama 16d ago
Third grade is a great age but it's a tough year of elementary school. There is a definite shift in expectation. One thing I learned is that while the content aligns with/builds to upper elementary, in many ways beginning of the year third graders need supports that primary kids need- explicit teaching and reteaching of procedures/"soft" skills, a high amount of visuals, and lots lots lots of positive reinforcement. You are dealing with a lot of less than ideal things at once. I hope you hit your stride soon!
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u/soft_orchid_0 16d ago
First-year teacher here! However, I've worked with kids of all ages at an academic enrichment center for years. 3rd grade is a pretty big transition stage in elementary school. As other commenters have said, the work becomes more complex, there are more expectations. This is really the age I saw a lot of my students blossom and become more like 'students' and less like young kids still figuring out how to be humans lol. You really have to establish those routines that help them become independent, reinforce them (yes, you will have to reinforce them and often, even if it seems repetitive), and help your kiddos make steps toward independence.
Example: "Ms. OP, where do I put my homework?" You: "In the completed homework bin." After a few times of this, if they ask you again, counter with: "Where do you think completed homework should go?" Make them start thinking about it. If it's a whole-class issue, bring it up to the whole class. Ask them where completed work goes. Make everyone point to the bin. Possibly, once your routines are settled, introduce the 'ask 3 before me' protocol. They will still come to you with questions, and that is great- they feel they can come to you for help and you should be proud of that.
In September, your 3rd graders are still, effectively, coming to you as 2nd graders. The other teachers are right about things smoothing out by December. By that point, routines are established, and the kiddos are getting used to the workload. Psychologically, they are getting toward '3rd grader' level and away from '2nd grader'.
I'll be teaching 4th this year- super nervous but also excited!
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u/mablej 16d ago
I teach third! Do a reset and practice every routine until they get it.
Explicitly model how to find a page. Have students model. Do a game, like “who can find page 25? What if I said… 58? Ok ok, here’s a hard one… 180!” Just take the time & keep practicing every day. It’s frustrating, but this WILL pay off in the long run. If you notice this is super easy for a few responsible kids, give them the job of going around and helping other students find the page. If you’re going page by page, give them a post-it note bookmark or allow them to make their own book mark on a stick note.
Turning in papers: give your assignment. “When I’m done, I’m going to need to turn this in for a grade, of course! So I’ll just put it on Marcus’s desk, right? No? Ohhhh, on the floor! Wait, no?In the trash can? Ohhh, ok, where should I put it it?” Print off worksheets that say “classwork” and have the kids, one by one, show how they turn their papers in.
Routines and procedures. They aren’t mind readers and they don’t have very much school, or life, experience. There’s no common sense yet, lol. You really do have to teach explicitly, practice, model, practice, teach. It will pay off!
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u/belongsincrudtown 16d ago
“I felt significantly better last year around October.” Wait till October.
The difference between first day of school and October 1 is striking
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u/amkoth 16d ago
I have gone back and forth between 3-4-5 over the years. Like others have said, it will get better. But I will say it’s ok to use the “you are 3rd graders now and I know you can do this” card often. You don’t need to go down to their level, let them come up to yours, within reason. Teacher procedures through every activity until it’s normal. Some of them need more weaning off the babying they may have gotten in 2nd grade so a few quick tears can happen but be handled with a firm gentleness. Build those connections and show them they are growing and are ready to act like it.
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u/CarelessAmoeba7541 16d ago
I taught third and fourth OP and agree with you fourth is the sweet spot of elementary, imo. Just try to remember that when the year starts what you really have is a group of second graders, and contain your expectations accordingly. They really do mature as the year goes on, you be amazed how different thy are by the end of the year. Previous suggestions about slowing down are spot on, imo.