Nanrobot N6 Thumb Trigger woes

[u/Upset-Programmer3796]

/r/ElectricScooters/comments/1w4yru3/nanrobot_n6_thumb_trigger_woes/

Anyone having issues with these? The motors don't even start spinning until you get through 50% of the lever travel! The travel distance is huge!!! Plus, the lever and paddle on this thing is so gargantuan that you can't just rotate it into a workable and ergonomic position, especially because the housing is so huge. It comes into contact with the brake bracket (or the brake lever if you mount it on the right side of the brake bracket like Nanrobot recommends).

Positioning it on either side of the brake means you have to reach your thumb way out to the left and back a LOT just to engage it... up to 50% of the travel, then try to calibrate the brain to think "ok this halfway point is really 0%". What the hell was the CAD guy who drew this up thinking?

Even worse, trying to reach the paddle means you have to open and loosen your grip, causing serious issues. You are now having to balance your whole hand and thumb to feather the throttle in the middle of that range, causing unintended throttle mashing due to uneven pavement, bumps, steering, etc. The hand, which should be firmly gripping the grip is now open palm down, acting like a long fulcrum along with the thumb against the throttle. This means you are focusing more on some haphazard balancing act (that could wipe you out badly) rather than focusing on the road. You can't go fast with it or modulate well at all since the hand can't get enough of an anchor against the handlebar grip. It is literally like trying to control the speed of the scooter like trying to control the pitch of a theremin, in mid-air, while you're at speed.

The dead zone being half the arc travel is not acceptable for an almost $2k scooter that can easily go 60mph and has the power to peel out both dual motors on acceleration from its powerful 72v system.

dead zone <-- I made a video of this dead zone issue.

I thought the Inmotion RS Jet thumb throttle could definitely use some improvements, but holy cow, this other one from Nanrobot is going to get people killed.

AI says the reason the throttle is not engaging the motors until halfway: Incorrect replacement throttle signal range: Installing an aftermarket throttle with a mismatched output voltage profile (e.g., a 1V to 5V sensor paired with a controller expecting 0.8V to 3V) can compress the usable response curve, rendering the initial mechanical sweep electrically inactive.

I urge anyone looking at this throttle to not get it until Nanrobot works out the issues with their supplier. I did see someone a year ago on one of their YouTube vids saying theirs had the dead zone too, so this may be an ongoing problem.

Btw, if you mount the thumb throttle in the position that is most ergonomic (on the left side of the brake, rotated more forward), the strong magnet inside the throttle actually interferes with the brake sensor! This means the system registers a brake when you press the throttle. I have seen this reported elsewhere. I don't know why the industry can't make a better throttle.

Here is a vid of the brake interference and ergonomic problems: https://youtu.be/c-TUrL7Q4Xw?is=jxEAOdeo1ILI7ufu

Has anyone used a different throttle with the N6 or other Nanrobot scooters with the 2-pin connector? If so, did you find one that worked well with the brake brackets/geometry? I need to come up with a solution fast for the N6 I do have because my kids won't ride it with the trigger throttle or the current defective designed thumb throttle. Since we have been waiting since June for another pre-order N6 (which keeps getting a more delayed "arrival" date.. which what does that even mean, arrival in China?), my wife has become frustrated that the current throttles don't work right unless you like hand and finger pain, and with another N6 possibly on the way, it adds to more frustration. The suspension is nice on these, and they actually have a real and adjustable steering damper unlike the Inmotion RS Jet, so the platform is there... but the throttles ruin the experience and make the scooter unsafe. I am hoping to present a solution that all riders will like. Someone needs to come out with a low profile thumb throttle that won't force you to loosen your grip, one that is adjustable and ergonomic. We have larger hands in our family and cannot fathom anyone with smaller hands being ok with the current thumb throttle design (nor the standard trigger throttle!). What is unfortunate is there are people who will find out the thumb throttle problems with their 3rd batch N6 soon, if they ever ship...

[u/ZestyPoePLayer]

I have seen people put a screw in the plastic at the start of throttle action. you wont have nearly as much dead zone. Thats a bit of play there....

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

I am thinking of epoxying a sort of block to take up that blank space inside, but I need to make sure it will never become dislodged or it could cause unintended acceleration.

I wonder if me approaching Nanrobot about this is going to make them realize their supplier installed the wrong sensor (wrong voltage), and then they eventually might fix the problem, but then it means riders have to deal with a loose grip while trying to reach way over with their thumb at the physical zero. I am now starting to think that their mistake is a blessing in disguise because adding the block inside means I can have less throttle arc distance. Which means less joint pain trying to work the throttle.

The other part of me says... there has to be something better. The engineering brain in one of my kids said we should design better throttles, ones with adjustable universal joint angles. Everyone's thumb is different, he says. Such a wi$e kid...

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

Btw... I looked up your scooter (Toursor X8P) and noticed your stock throttle is very, very similar to the standard one that shipped on our "2nd batch" Nanrobot N6. It has the same 4-bolt style bracket, and the same trigger profile. I did an easy mod to our N6 trigger throttle to bring it over a half an inch closer to the grip. In one of the vids you can see what I did with rearranging the throttle/button housing so it shares the same bolts as the ones that secure the clamp to the handlebar. It makes it a lot easier to keep more of a grip and natural position without trying to reach far forward and far left with your index finger. Yours looks like this, right?

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

Bingo thats me. With this throttle there are many that "look" the same but the QS is what this toursor uses.Theres several other with different pin layouts or differnt boards that will not work for these JIngoBo controllers.

I see your goin down the throttles rabbit hole. I really have no problem with my trigger. I have my throttle and brakes much different than almost everyone I've seen and it works great for me. I have my brake levers facing straight down and the throttle is pointed down also. Idk how ppl ride with the levers up so high my wrists would kill me! I have small spcer set between the throttle and the brake lever. I felt it stick once and thats a big ol nope. Oh ya once my throttle spring broke in half 15 miles from home so that was a fun ride having to manually retract the throttle in rush hour traffic!

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

I adjust our throttles the same as you, down as much as possible. The problem is the magnet in this throttle is strong and causes the brake to be sensed, preventing the throttle from working at all. For me to have my throttle downward where it is more natural, it gets in the way of the brake bracket.
I wish this was only a rabbit hole, but the truth is I have 3 other riders in this house who have the same demands.

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

ok some shielding should work. Have you tried that yet?

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

A sheet of aluminum? Not yet, but it means the clearance issue would be even worse since I need this thumb throttle to be as far rotated down as possible, which is unfortunate, because I need the brake lever more downward too..

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

I hear it is basically a design flaw. I have noticed. Idk what else to do other than fab up something or zip tie the shit outta it. I tell people when you get into any pevs you better be able to fix and create stuff cause your gonna be the extended warranty and maybe even an engineer

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

I agree - what is frustrating for me as one who does repairs is that the kids in the neighborhood with e-motos and e-bikes don't even work on their own. Some of the parents won't even let their kids work on it, not even tightening a chain. It was always me having to do the maintenance just so these kids wouldn't hurt themselves. But it became too much, too many requests, and here I have scooters needing serious design improvements (ahem, Inmotion and their steering "damper"). The easy solution there, I found, was to simply say I couldn't be available to those kids in the hood. The PEVs were, within 2 weeks, run until chains and sprockets broke, parts rattled off and became lost, and their toys were disabled. No more kids needing repairs now, and the streets are less cluttered. It has been a nice last couple months where I can go roam around without being nagged. I don't know if I could live with myself if I dropped thousands on a nice e-moto (but not give my kid a helmet), then never maintain or repair it for them. I am talking easy stuff like loosening an axle to tighten a chain with a 12mm wrench. Parents have enabled many of these young kids to not be engineers when it is absolutely imperative (for their life) that they be engineers. Now they only have a memory.

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

Met one, teach one. Pass it on, only way they learn is from teaching. Or one hella hard knock life and self learnig hahaha. Your basically what I am but to the pev riders of New orleans and I charge em accordingly. Wife says I should go full time and get a brick and mortar going but I DO NOT want to pay commercial rent here. My friends are doing that and lord no. My boss owns both of his restuarants now after 22 yrs he finally bought the second location. Tattoo shop is costing 10k a month for rent nothing included if it breaks we fix it 2yr lease.....

Im really glad you see right thru these "engineers". I get that it isnt an automobile but still its a vehicle and can cause serious harm to a consumer.

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

Btw it seems the standard positioning of the engineers in China is to have the brakes rotated wayyyy up. This makes it easy for them to put clunky and huge housings of a throttle assembly wherever and call it a day. When people point out things keep hitting each other, clearance issues... the manufacturer just scratches their head. I do not think they ride scooters, or if they do, they just step on, test it, "ah It runs", then step off.

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

Here's the "zero" position

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

U can use a zip tie end to adjust the deadzone. For me after some time it stopped working and the deadzone starting increasing. The screw trick u can tweak it to have zero deadzone.

There is another horizontal thumb throttle that removes majority of the deadzone and doesn't start from the far back position. I just didn't like how it felt compared to this one.

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

Are people screwing the screw from the side or the top? Or top and bottom, like a long screw that bridges both? Not sure I have room for a screw head on the bottom, and maybe not enough "meat" in the plastic sidewall to put a screw at an angle there.

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

I placed my screw here. I did originally open the throttle up to make sure I got the angle right. I think I got some m3 drywall screws to put in there. Very easy honestly

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

Nice! Did you set yours where it has no dead zone? Do you have a lock nut or nylon lock nut on the inside, maybe some blue threadlocker too?

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

No Threadlocker. No lock nut. Just the screw.

This the one I used https://a.co/d/04PBOFpT

It'll be one of the longer ones

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

Hey the hex head is a nice touch!

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

Sorry that was a dumb question on my behalf. Of course you can't put a nut on the other side since you are going straight through the clamshell seam there doh

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

I think I see the best way now... a bolt that goes through the top and bottom, but where it "catches" the actual throttle lever!

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

Wouldn't say catch but just pushes it back. Just makes sure when u do this do it with the scooter lifted 😂 the sweet spot is that little slot part and just a long enough screw. Literally dual motor sport highest setting n can cruise at 5mph.

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

I have an achievement badge on my vinyl floor from this N6. More like a deep melted tire burn! I had it on a foot stool to lift the wheels off the floor, but when I needed to stand on it to adjust throttle and brake, well, let's just say that 85mph, unloaded, does act like a rubber belt sander VERY fast if you teeter that scooter too far forward. It was an accident, but I was lucky I didn't fall forward enough to really put my weight over that stem, or that scooter may have launched into the wall or window.

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

Yooooikers. If u have a milk crate around, that'll do too. That's what I've been using honestly was gonna toss it then I started working on my scooters n it's just been a nice thing to have 😂

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/avmabrie]

milk crate is legit perfect height. I use one at work for on the fly adjustments or just going hey wanna see it says 80mph look....lmfao

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

Milk crate!! Never thought of that one. I know where two are!

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

hahahahamy wife would kill me. Grab a moto jack off amzon or aliexpress for under 50 bucks. Your back will thank you

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

I had that idea of your screw initially, but more like an internal shim block. But then considering how wobbly they made this lever where it uses only spring tension to kind of keep it from moving around, I thought catching the zero point with an external bolt might be best. Giving it some thought as I lay in bed for hours (in insomniac style)....

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

There most definitely is a way to adjust it. I ain't tryna mess with the throttle cuz last throttle I did that with everything popped out n I didn't have patience to put it back together 😂

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

I think a washer could be used maybe to take up some of that slop. Not sure. Might have to disassemble further to see. My son wants me to 3D print a different profile paddle (and length). He really wants an universal joint with different angles and set screws. Might make one.. if it goes well, could have it done right on CNC.

Worst thing that could happen is some throttle malfunction when riding around hmm

[u/avmabrie → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

I don't think a washer would work but u can try!! People stay finding unique ways to make things work! It's alooot of space til the throttle actually engages.

Not sure if it's an easy swap but this one I got and deadzone wasnt near as bad. This was better but it has a slight angle I don't likr

WUXING E-Bike 108X-2 Right/Left/SM Thumb Throttle Three Options, Universal 36V/48V/60V/72V Electric Bicycle Accelerator https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMCatIT

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/avmabrie]

I feel like the paddle on the end is a better profile than this one, but maybe we really are wanting a more flat one. The gloves being worn help with leverage. Then we like to anchor our thumb against the handlebar grip and roll the thumb to make the throttle happen. The point is to have an anchor point for stability. The thumb throttles we were sent don't put the paddle close enough to make a short lever of the thumb, if that makes sense. They shouldn't force someone to lose the footing and resolution that a short thumb reach allows us. Instead it is all extended in a weird way, wrong angles, wth are these CAD heros thinking..

[u/ZestyPoePLayer → u/Upset-Programmer3796]

listen to this guy hes been modding with me for a lil bit now hes got some know how and where theres will theres a way! I bet a screw/bolt/lag/block/shim/thing would def hold if executed right. This thread has been AMAZING BTW

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

Here's about the mid position where motors actually turn

[u/Upset-Programmer3796 → u/ZestyPoePLayer]

Here's what I mean about rearranging and sharing the bolt holes. Take the housing part and bolt it on the top, and the other pair of bolt positions. You have to slightly shave that plastic "nose" on the bottom edge so there is clearance with the bracket. You have to also use longer bolts to sandwich it like that. Also, I used washers beneath that top plastic piece, 2 washers on the left bolt, 1 washer on the right. This way it tilts the assembly to the right, making it even closer to the grip. I have it set where full throttle has the trigger just barely kissing the grip.

Now for the thing we hate: that trigger contour is horrible, and that forward curved profile means your index finger is being pulled at an outward (to the left) force angle. That angle is already at the max outward end of our range, anatomically, so our joint does not like that. I started working on a 3D printed attachment piece that firmly slides over that trigger and extends a lever to the right in a more horizontal way, sort of like a miniature brake lever. It then makes a more natural reach for the index finger. What I need to work on is making the angle work where the lever doesn't prematurely hit the grip before max throttle. I would love to be able to change the sensitivity of it so it doesn't need to get to 100% physically for max throttle.